I recommend spending more time in Florence. It's absolutely GORGEOUS. Stockholm is pretty cool too.

Isn't it funny how we all have different preferences? Actually I was thinking you have 3 days too much planned for Florence already, since you say you're not big into touristy things and museums.

Personally, I loved Florence and hated Rome. I won't go back to Rome. To me, it was a big, dirty, noisy, unfriendly city with very little charm. Really touristy. I found Florence to be charming, the people really friendly and helpful, and the food very good. The Uffizi Museum was fantastic even for someone who doesn't like museums. Our hotel room was large, lovely and really reasonable! Our flat in Rome was disgusting, smelly, noisy, and unfriendly. I guess my experience was much, much different.

Nessundorma/Neopatrick

Yeesh, this is what happens while I try to edit and cook for a Christmas party at the same time. Start making eggnog, sample eggnog, post, have vague disquieting thought, drink strong coffee, decide the eggnog sampling made me see one too many gentlemen in Verona, edit post, re-post, and find you two cats pounced on the Verona canary, or was it the third gentleman, before I'd even finished sprinkling the nutmeg on aforesaid eggnog, let alone edited. You were right, I stand corrected, or would have been if I'd refreshed the page and seen your posts. TWO Gentlemen, it was.

Now - what was the question again?

(P.S. guests depleted most of my wine stores. Still have plenty of eggnog though...)

...from the first post...

<< ...any tips on how I can do it the best or how I can adjust the plans to really get a taste of the best of Europe ... >>

While I did read later that Debstah has made (only?) one trip previously to (only?) London, this remark had _most_ of the sound of a first-time Europe traveler, who wants to spend months and "see" (get a little taste of) "all of Europe".

And I am not opposed to ALL longer trips to Europe...

... I just think that for _most_ <b><i>first</i></b>-time travelers, trips of too long a duration are less-than-ideal uses of time and money, and it leads to the thinking that &quot;I have been there&quot; and reduces the likelihood that you will want to go see that place, on your nth trip to Europe, when you have a whole new understanding of how to get what _you_ want, from a trip to Europe.

And I'll similarly take exception with the notion that...

&lt;&lt; If my biggest mistake in life is trying to see too much of Europe, I could probably do much worse... &gt;&gt;

I would say that taking a &quot;once-in-a-lifetime&quot; trip that results in your not returning to Europe for another decade or more, is potentially the greater mistake that you _could_ make.

&quot;... I just think that for _most_ first-time travelers, trips of too long a duration are less-than-ideal uses of time and money, and it leads to the thinking that &quot;I have been there&quot; and reduces the likelihood that you will want to go see that place, on your nth trip to Europe, when you have a whole new understanding of how to get what _you_ want, from a trip to Europe.&quot;


I'm sorry, but I simply fail to understand why someone's trip to Europe under such circumstances would logically make them NOT want to return or make them feel they have &quot;seen it&quot;. It seems much more logical to me that after a quick tasting of various places they would be far more likely to want to return. I'd be interested in how many people who first did such a &quot;whirlwind trip&quot; ended up returning to many of the places they had gotten a taste of rather then going back to Europe and ignoring those places because they had &quot;been there&quot; -- frankly I suspect very few!

My deficient explanation had two problems:

First, I failed to larify that a months long trip _can_ lead to a subsantial financial impact.. either debt... or depletion of savings not quickly replaced again. Thus, other big life expenses (buying a house or a newer car, having a baby, further education or career-building, illness or injury) result in the idea that Europe travel can wait for (many?) years becase &quot;we just scratched that itch substantially, back in 2007&quot;.

Second, I didn't define where &quot;there&quot; is, when I indicated that a first-time traveler might not return &quot;there&quot;. In Debstah's case... prhaps &quot;there&quot; will be Barcelona, or Portugal or Sweden... any one country/city/region where the planning was less than ideal, the exploration was satisfactory, yet really quite superficial, and that place becomes mentally &quot;checked off&quot;. Years later, the former first-time traveler thinks &quot;I know I didn't really even scratch the surface in Spain, but I did see La Sagrada Familia and Las Ramblas&quot;... and now I really want to go to Greece or Honduras or Egypt or Poland. So, Spain languishes on the shelf, for years, since &quot;I did kinda go there, once...&quot;

For what it's worth, my own first trip to Europe was six weeks, an organized bus-based trip to five countries in 1969, when I was 16. I didn't pay for it at all, and a shorter trip would not have been put on the agenda, as far as I know. It set the hook deeply, but 13 more years of school, three babies and first job meant that sixteen years elapsed before my second trip in 1985 (made posible, partly by my job).

I think that I am a lifetime Europe traveler (trips 3-23 in the past 21 years); I don't know how or if it might have turned out differently... if my first trip occurred in my twenties, paid by myself, with my own worktime/income reduced.

It's doable and at your age i did just this kind of trip a few times...that said you may scale it down a bit and enjoy it more and make plans to return to Europe if you like it. Seems like you're a novice European traveler assumedly going a lot by train - for such novice travelers trying to get a fix on questions like you ask here are some good resources: www.ricksteves.com has a site with lots of transportation options from trains to cheap flights, which you may mix in with a rail trip - like end up in Seville and then fly to the UK, etc. And Budget Europe has an excellent free European Planning &amp; Rail Guide that has a wealth of info for planning such a trip, especially a good primer on using the rail system - it's free at www.budgeteuropetravel.com and the site has some good info as well but i know of no other free guide that contains so many great tips. But Fodorites remain to me the best resource so don't feel shy about posting questions as there are always some Fodorites who are so expert on every arcane aspect of European travel it seems. Happy travels.

Hi Debstah - one tip I haven't read here for not waiting in line is to make reservations for the museums - especially the big ones like the Uffizi. Your hotel can probably handle that for you. Also, check the TI to see if there is a city pass that would include public transportation and museum admissions.

I too think you're trying to cover too many places, but it is your trip. I like riding the trains also but even a 4 hour train ride every few days can get boring. Sure, the scenery is sometimes nice but it can get boring. One thing I learned the hard way is that you lose at least 1/2 day every time you change towns - between packing, checking out, getting (early) to the airport/train station, the travel time, getting from the new airport/train station to the hotel, checking in, orienting yourself to the area, etc.

You had a suggestion about renting an apartment for 1 week each in 6 towns. I'm not sure that's what I would do, but I would consider staying in one place 4-5 nights and take a day trip or two from there. Saves the hassle of packing up and moving.

Congratulations on finishing school! You're lucky to be able to celebrate with a trip like this. Have fun!

..Deb isn't a troll just young. I am saying that as a complement! BUT Deb..from someone who is more seasoned (read older), I have concerns. My first trip without school or grownups was 4 months with no fixed itinerary in the precell phone travellers cheque era (and I am still amazed that my parents let their 21 year old daughter go but I was with 2 good friends and between the 3 of us we were fluent in 3 languages other than English and had a smattering of 2 others). We did not pre-book our rooms (and I do have stories to tell). This did mean that as the trip progressed we really slowed down and changed itinerary. If you pre-book, you will not be able to do so. It removes all flexability. In addition if you miss a connection, get the European version of Delhi belly ect, how will you deal with that and will it cost you? On a rapid multi stop tour you are really leaving your self open for this sort of problem. Secondly, you will loose at least half a day and up to a full day everytime you change hotel..it isn't just the flight times but transport from station to the hotel, finding the hotel, checking in ect...and it really adds up. As a suggestion (given that you won't have a car) and given that you are someone who sounds like they want to have things prebooked, pick 6 spots and do day trips..a chance to use apts for some of your stays, a chance to meet other travellers (not tourists) who may suggest some interesting day trips, and less chance of getting so behind on your travels that you end up loosing a lot of money on missed connections. Good luck on what I hope will be one of many trips!

To answer NeoPatrick's question about how I felt immediately after my 5 1/2 European haj when I was 22. Well, it was so long ago that I don't remember but I don't regret any of my trips. I don't, in fact, remember much these days. Ha ha! I did go at Europe as though I would never go again, but, of course, I did go again and still have not seen many of the places on Debstah's list.

I do remember that, flying home, I had exactly 25 cents in my pocket in the days way before ATM's. I flew to Boston and went directly to law school. I suppose a stop at a bank was mandatory, but I had some friends on the charter flight and perhaps one of them loaned me subway fare. I can't remember.

Debstah is young. If she wants a madcap trip, she should do what she wants and then she can come back and give others advice afterwards.