Debstah

Yes, LoveItaly, I have received so much valuable information here I don't even know where to begin! But I am so glad I posted: except for experiencing something yourself, there's no better to learn than from a whole bunch of people who've been there and done that already!

Of course, now I'm a little scared to cut it all up, because I had it so perfectly jiggled with the transportation from one city to another and the whole thing will fall like dominoes and I'll have to try to plan this all over again LOL!!!

It's reassuring to hear yet another person say that they find train rides relaxing. I really think that I will too!

So I have absolutely no idea where to begin LOL! I suppose I could cut Stockholm and make sure I cross the bridge for a day trip to Malmo while in Copenhagen, so at least I would get the taste of Sweden that way, even if it's not quite the same.

Anyone have any suggestions on what else I could cut (or if I should replace with something that would be more convenient)? If I'm so historically-minded, maybe cutting Amsterdam too would be best (even though it makes me very sad to think about!)...

FauxSteMarie

OK, I am older and I have crossed the Atlantic many times (too many to know the number) and I still have not seen everything. In fact, I still have not been to Lisbon,Barcelona, Nice, Stockholm or Prague. They are still--LOL--on my list.

I did a crazy 6 week Eurail trip when I was 24 that included London-Edinburgh-Rome-Florence-Lucerne/Zurich-Vienna-Paris-Amsterdam-Copenhagen and back to London. I never did that again, although I loved every minute of my first Europe experience.

Now, I vacation in Europe principally through home exchanges and stay in one place. I would never stay in any location less than 4 days under any circumstances as the rigor of packing and unpacking gets old quickly.

I do not care that you live in Houston. Think Houston without air conditioning and that is what you will face in Spain, southern France and Italy in the summer. If you are on a budget tour, you will sweat it out every night in your hotel room. That is not a vacation; that is misery.

So, my answer to this itinerary is that, yes, you are nuts. You will spend far too much time on trains and you haven't even considered the epic journeys you will make on trains. Nice to Vienna is going to take you easily 18 hours assuming good connections. I got news for you: Unless you plan to get a regular sleeper, your chances of actually sleeping on the train might be remote. Who wants to get to their destination feeling miserable? AND, the train might not be airconditioned and it might be hot.

So, I would say that you are nuts. Stay in Paris a week and then travel around France, Belgium and Switzerland for the rest of the time. Leave the other places to the future. You WILL go back because you will never get to see everything.

You do need to decide whether you want to do a forced march or a vacation. No matter how you do it, you will not see everything.

As to Eurail passes, I have this to say: He who has a Eurail pass will get to see the many train stations in the large cities of Europe. However, he who has a Eurail pass will never stay in any of the large cities of Europe long enough to find out what any of them look like.

Now you decide.

Debstah

FauxSteMarie - whoops we posted at the same time!

Oh gosh, I would not have taken the train for any of those long trips (again, save for the Barcelona to Nice leg). Any train that was more than 5-6 hours long, I found a flight or reconsidered the route. I found flights for all of those longer legs, did extensive research of the low-cost airlines, etc. And, I'm not the type who would be able to sleep in an overnight train, so I didn't even consider that option for just a minute - that I KNOW would ruin my vacation!

What my hopes are (and based on the research I've done seems possible at least for most of the trips) is to arrive in a new destination by mid-day so I'm not trying to find a hotel at night, and then take it easy that rest of the day. I don't really mind losing those days to traveling.

I'm not doing what I would consider myself a "budget traveler" - I'm looking up hotels that only have a/c in the warmer cities, and as far as I'm concerned, being cool while sleeping is the only time I care about being cool. I'm willing to pay more for it, so that's not so much my concern. I'm not going to give up my dream of seeing those places just because it'd be hot to walk around

Anyway I have come to terms with cutting at least two cities to extend my time to allow for downtime and day trips, so I guess I'm now beyond the point of thinking about that original plan and in the phase of cutting 2-3 cities off and going from there.

NeoPatrick

OK, you asked. I'd cut both Copenhagen and Stockholm from the mix. On one of your future trips (and there will be those) I'd do Scandinavia. First of all you haven't included Norway which far surpassed Sweden and Denmark as far as I'm concerned. Go back another time and do the Scandinavian countries, but for now add those 7 days to your other places.

degas

Live and learn, and believe us, you will learn plenty bying trying to do all those cities.

Good luck, and happy switching hotels and rushing to catch planes, trains and busses. The memory of all those scenic transport terminals will last a lifetime.

FauxSteMarie

Live and learn is right.

Just be sure to post a trip report so we can all get exhausted reading it after you get back.

I haven't been to Scandanavia either--except for Copenhagen. LOL.

Debstah

Well the way I see it, I would rather live and learn and make mistakes than not do at all. If my biggest mistake in life is trying to see too much of Europe, I could probably do much worse

I think I have reached a compromise with myself - cut Stockholm and Nice, fly from Barcelona to Brussels (found a flight) and reverse that part of my trip (Belgium to Vienna leg), go from Vienna to Milan and take 2 nights to relax, recharge, and do nothing with a splurge at one of the lakes before I really plunge into the rest of Italy, adding the 6 nights (plus the entire day that the Barcelona/Nice train trip would have taken) throughout to give me 4 nights in most cities.

I've got to accept there's no such thing as a perfect trip so I gave in and gave up 2 cities that I'd love to see but are a bit out of the way and just follow my heart and refuse to budge on the rest. I'll be tired, but I think it'll be worth it. I feel a little heretic leaving out ALL of France, but I'll just have to vow to come back one day! But this will give me time to see the best of what the cities have to offer and also gives leeway for day trips or rest days, depending on how I feel on the day.

As for the report, I will be bringing my trusty laptop and digicam to document the entire thing. A few years ago I took a very intense 1-week trip to Washington DC and I wrote what I did on a pad of paper every night. It was cathartic and a way document it all, and I plan on doing the same for a trip of this magnitude.

Cato

I think this is a troll.

Few, if any, people would actually intend to do a crazy death march like this and then persist in spite of so much good advice to change the plan.

Why ask for advice if you don't intend to follow it? If this is a real trip, then the planner will soon see the error in her ways.

MarkvonKramer

Ahhhh, so good to see the kind-hearted and helpful postings from cato once again.

MvK

yildy

How come you wish miss the beauty of Switzerland?

NeoPatrick

Interesting post, Cato. Of course if Debstah had returned to say that she had changed her mind and was now only going to do a total of two cities, you could have then posted that she is a troll because she went against the advice of all those above who advised her that there was nothing wrong with her original plan and she should go for it. So either way, I guess you would have been able to call her a troll?

By the way, it seems Debstah is taking advice and is making changes. What made you pick out the single post that you feel is the ONE she should follow?

ira

Hi D,

>I will be bringing my trusty laptop and digicam to document the entire thing.

Your laptop will get heavier and heavier each day, unless it is stolen.

> A few years ago I took a very intense 1-week trip to Washington DC and I wrote what I did on __a pad of paper__ every night. It was cathartic and a way document it all, and I plan on doing the same for a trip of this magnitude.<

Excellent idea. Dump the computer and bring a pad of paper.

Dump the digicam and bring a compact or subcompact camera.

Looking forward to your trip report.

Cato

Kramer, your post was another amazing effort. Merry Christmas to you old friend.

Neo, I just think she is overplaying the "I'm stubborn and free to be me" part. But you know, maybe she really is for real.

MarkvonKramer

cato,

Why didn't you just take the "rap" for OJ? OK, just kidding and thanks for the "amazing" comment. I'll take it as a compliment as I'm certain it was intended. Merry Christmas to you as well.

Still stinging from that Nov. 7th debacle?

Troll or not, it makes for amusing if not interesting reading. Even with "troll" posts, questions get asked/answered that some may be interested in reading.

MvK

Cato

Hi MvK

Still stinging from that Nov. 7th debacle?

Hey, one set of crooks in and one set out. Not much will change. 500 people picked at random from a phonebook could run the USA much better and at much less cost. SF phonebooks excluded.

LCBoniti

Debstah -

I think you are amazing! You are certain where you want to go and you have researched how to get there. Now come the little details that pull it all together.

I also recommend Rick Steves' guidebooks, along with the Lonely Planet. He has some good insight for first-time Europe travel. (Although, a little pedantic for the more experienced - a reason many on this site do not like him.)

I also recommend that you read some of the older trip reports from this forum. I found that they really give you a "feel" for where you are going in a way that a guidebook cannot.

I am very envious - both of your trip and of the energy you possess in order to accomplish it. I sincerely hope you will allow us to help you plan it by asking questions and then share with us when you return.

Congratulations on the accomplishment of your education. My daughter will be graduating from UC-Berkeley this spring and then faces another 6 years grad school. But she has already begun her travels with a trip to the UK last spring.

Best wishes,
Linda

MarkvonKramer

cato,

Another thing that won't change is my enjoyment in reading this forum and the pleasure of traveling in Europe.

Debstah must have a high energy level, several folks I have worked with in the past have been so energetic it wore me out just to see them work! One of my best friends married a lady that just has to be active, doing something all the time and I think they would be very happy and successful in the travels the op has outlined here. Our 2004 adventure in Europe was too fast-paced for the many of regulars here yet I never wore down (well, not too much , anyway) and looked forward to each new day and destination with great anticipation and excitement as to what the day would bring.

Go for as much as you care to do, Debstah. The folks here will have many, many recommendations and some very good advice, take it but follow your heart and dreams. As many have stated before, you will return.

MvK

FauxSteMarie

While I wouldn't do Debstah's trip, Debstah is free to do her own thing against any advice posted on this board. I can think the itinerary is nuts, but I am not Debstah. She is young and energetic. When I was young and energetic, I did my "all Europe in 5 weeks" trip and never did that again. So, I do understand where she is coming from--even if I advise against going there.

I would recommend leaving the laptop at home because it is just one other thing to schlep and worry about. The less you have to schlep and worry about, the better off you will be--which is why I always pack inexpensive clothing and NO valuable jewelry. You can always find an internet cafe if you must check email. I generally ignore email when I am on vacation. Maybe in a two week trip, I might do it once. Since I usually am faced with problems from the office, I am always sorry when I do. The only exception was my recent trip to Chile when I was trying to get a car repaired while I was away (It did get repaired) and I emailed furiously for a few days before going off line for the balance of the trip. For part of that time, I was out of reach of email. For the rest, I just decided that, if the car was repaired, fine, but it was too late to do anything about it at that point if it wasn't.

If you take a composition book, you can take notes and write up the trip later from the notes. Alternatively, I have seen some wonderful new lightweight laptops. I am waiting for the price to come down before buying one. This time they are really portable.

NeoPatrick

Faux Ste.Marie, you've left out the most important detail. After you finished that 5 week trip did you immediately know is was NOT the way to travel, or did you have a great time doing it at the time?

Cato

I guess I was a bit harsh. People are free to make thier own way. Young people do travel faster and with less depth.

But the collective advice here is pretty sound, and the forum has really helped me make very good use of my time and money.