PalenQ

On NPR on a food discussion some bloke said that "London has had a large low-salt initiative and that Londoners who go abroad now complain about salty foods."

How does this London low-salt initiative work - is the government being like Mayor Bloomberg and forcing the food industry to lower salt content (Bloomberg is attacking super sizing and fatty foods) or is it just a popular movemewnt?

Should Americans bring their salt shakers to London restaurants?

Michael

Last time we were in London, the buses had low-salt ads.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...57623461378508

bilboburgler

The food industry has developed micro-salt which is very fine crystals of salt with very high surface area to content and now used on crisps etc. All a waste of time, just stop adding salt to everything and add loads of herbs.

flanneruk

""London has had a large low-salt initiative and that Londoners who go abroad now complain about salty foods."

This sounds like "activists' they-ism", as in "In Sweden" (it's always in Sweden or Denmark or Canada), "they've introduced an initiative that's now eliminated cancer"

Translated into boring facts, this always means "In Sweden, I heard at a conference lately, taxpayers' money's being spent on [fill in the latest fad]. At the conference, someone said they'd read about a Swede who should statistically ought to have got such and such a cancer, but didn't. Or was it his Finnish cousin? Anyway, it was jolly interesting."

See http://www.actiononsalt.org.uk/

Some manufactured products now have less salt than they used to, and this is spreading to some of the less healthy fast food operators. Real restaurants remain unaffected.

I've never encountered a Briton complain food in Italy or France is too salty.

Ackislander

Nanny State at work as in NY. Bad science.

Of every 100 Americans, 32 have some degree of hypertension. Not good.

But only about 30 % of those are salt-sensitive. So to help 10 people, 90 people with no problem or with problems that will not be helped by salt reduction are subject to involuntary dietary changes.

Fast food is often disgustingly salty and leaves one's mouth burning, so perhaps we should focus on teaching what real food tastes like, and not so much on "campaigns" and bans. That said, we southerners, black and white, have been notorious for eating high fat, high sugar, and high salt diets and are way too fat as a region. Moderation!

flanneruk

Ackislander might know the real data underlying this, but:

- in a rant from the fiendishly tyrannical holder of the Chair in cardiology at the the ancient, non-Oxbridge, hospital I was attending, the subject of Japanese salt intake came up.

- to the extent that fiendishly tyrannical females roughly my age holding medical Chairs at ancient hospitals (think James Robertson Justice playing Mrs Thatcher) are genetically capable of sheepishness, she came close to blushing

- on admitting that most Japanese eat more salt than Western McD addicts and have the hypertension of a 20 yo marathon runner, she was reduced to mumbling something about fish having less cholesterol than beef. But that I wasn't Japanese, so what was my point?

Then my mobile rang.

We never did get the answer. The consultants merely raised their eyebrows at my mention of Professor X. Somehow, I suspended "old trout" didn't refer to diets.

PatrickLondon

There have been national campaigns to try to get people's overall salt consumption down, for some years. I wouldn't be surprised if Boris has found some way to muscle in on this particular bandwagon, but I'm not aware of it.

Michael

Nanny State at work as in NY. Bad science.

Not necessarily if one reads the long article in the NY Times Magazine on processed food. The industry knows exactly what our palates desire (it spent millions on knowing that), and once the taste desire has been implanted and developed, only regulations on sugar, salt & fat will change our national habit.

lmhornet

All this panic over salt is misplaced. It's just the nanny state gone berserk. The fact, and I mean fact, is that there is little scientific evidence that salt does any harm. For years, it was just assumed that it increases blood pressure. Scientific studies over the last little while have shown that there is little or no demonstrable link between blood pressure and salt. E.g., http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~census/573.pdf. Of course, many people don't want to let actual evidence get in the way of a good rant and a do-gooder crusade, so the myth that salt is poison continues to persist. Don't believe it.

StCirq

That may be true, Imhornet, and I don't have HBP, but the few times I eat processed food anywhere in the world, my tastebuds are in shock at how salty eveything tastes, and frankly, I don't know why my body should be ingesting these levels of sodium that are so high that everything tastes terrible to me. I don't see why anyone needs all this salt, whether it does them harm or not. It just TASTES BAD.

Michael

Scientific studies over the last little while have shown that there is little or no demonstrable link between blood pressure and salt. E.g., http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~census/573.pdf.

I do not have the exact reference available, but I believe that the NY Magazine article mentioned that a serious reduction in salt reduced the rate of heart disease in Finland.

Weegie

> I don't see why anyone needs all this salt, whether it does them harm or not. It just TASTES BAD.<

If it tasted bad to other people they'd make different choices.

PalenQ

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22482843

Of course, many people don't want to let actual evidence get in the way of a good rant and a do-gooder crusade, so the myth that salt is poison continues to persist. Don't believe it.

choose your studies you want to believe in.

Michael

PalenQ,

Your reference (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22482843 ) supports the need to reduce salt intake, which appears to be opposite to the opinion you hold: so the myth that salt is poison continues to persist. Don't believe it. Moreover, you are simplifying. Salt is necessary in our diet, but it appears that too much salt is unhealthy--that's not the same as "poison".

Ackislander

"Choose your studies you want to believe in" is an astute comment. These things become religion.

If you watch the science/medial press, you can tell which societies are having meetings and announcing I "revolutionary " new results. Sometimes these prove to be true, sometimes they are wrong.

We know that antioxidants in the body are good but there is fairly strong evidence that eating antioxidants doesn't do you any good. Remember Vitamin E? Now it is calcium and vitamin D added to foods tha are in question.

Every body is different, and what works for one doesn't work for all.

The best thing you can do is pick the right ancestors and eat, drink, and exercise in moderation.

PalenQ

supports the need to reduce salt intake, which appears to be opposite to the opinion you hold: so the myth that salt is poison continues to persist>

Where do I say anything about the deleterious effects of salt on humans - being a hypertensive I am very open to any news that I can let the salt shaker pour out

I indeed have been under the impression that I am of the about 1/4-1/3 of humans who are salt sensitive - once a plus in evolution in retaining water in dry areas I read and my many BP reading I take at home have indicated that - I generally avoid sodium as much as possible at home but when I go out to a restaurant and eat normal things - ubiquitously loaded with sodium, the next morning my BP shows significant gains - now such accounts as mine are not scientific but seems to validate my salt sensitivity but who knows - again always open to new studie - guess we can all throw out our diuretics given for HP as it is the salt that retains the water that diruetics supposedly eliminated.

I know on myself th