Whatever the lady told the two teen-agers who were puffing away on the outdoor platforms at Dartford or Deptford (? not sure of station) train station, in Southeast London, the kids did not take kindly to her

and threw her down onto the tracks, the lady landing on the dread Third Rail, or LIVE Rail.

She could have been killed of course but was not hurt after several other passengers helped her off the Third Rail

Q- So i've heard you can touch the Third Rail - the ground-level power rail that many U.K. electric trains get their power from - and no be hurt unless you also touch one of the regular train rails?

Is this correct?

Wonder how many folks get fried by the Third Rail in a given year?

And i also wonder why the third rail system is so popular in the U.K. - seems overhead electrical wires would be safer and easier to maintain, etc.

Is this correct?

No. Touch it and you're toast.

It's only the south of england that has the third rail - the rest have overhead wires. It's a historical accident - and one that would cost too much to change.

Pal,

if she touched the live rail and was also grounded elsewhere then there would be a current flow I assume.

Are you certain she came in contact with the live rail?

The Southern Railway started electrifying lines in the 1920s, and in the 1930s had reached Brighton and Portsmouth. In the 1950s, it was seemingly too expensive to change to overhead power, so this outdated system has spread, and the third-rail system now extends from Kent as far west as Weymouth.
At stations, the electrified third rail is always furthest from the station platforms, so if someone falls off (or is pushed off) a platform, they don't normally land on the third rail.

I think a person in normal street attire would have a good chance of surviving contact with the hot rail as long as a part of the body didn't fall into standing water.

First of all, clothing is a fair insulator, the roadbed is filled with non-conductive ballast, and the odds of bare skin touching the current-carrying rail and one of the others simultaneously (which are earths to complete the circuit for the traction motors) are pretty slim.

DO NOT help anyone off the third rail unless you know what you're doing and/or the power has been shut off.

There are a number of different 3rd rail systems - some have a cover over the rail and contact is made from side or bottom to prevent this type of accident from becoming fatal. A cover also prevents late night revelers who try to pee on the rail from getting fried.

A person would definitely need to be grounded, either to a regular rail, through standing water, or by some other means to complete an electrical circuit.

It's not a question of popularity. Third Rail was how trains were first electrified (as on the tube, and many metro systems). It's not just used in SE England: it's the system used on most of Liverpool's suburban rail network.

The reason it seems so common in Britain is that very little of our rail network is electrified, so the Liverpool and London suburban systems account for a bizarrely high proportion of electrified track.

And why so little electrification? Blame the absurd decision in the 1940s to merge our just about adequate, commercially-operated, railway companies into one State-run monster. After that decision, Britain's trains were run down during four decades of spectacular underinvestment and pointless track destruction. While mainland Europe was electrifying its entire networks, Britain's civil servants just let the unions turn an essential national asset into a useless provider of jobs to the otherwise unemployable.

Money was spent subsidiing pointless activities, rather than investing in up to date equipment.

Fortunately for anyone who wants to see an effective railway system, we've finally reversed that mistake, and money's being invested in the network again.

Yes money's going into CrossRail, finally to by 2020, or some pie-in-the-sky date as it will no doubt prove to be, the first RER type high-speed Tube line running thru the heart of central London - with Heathrow-Kings Cross/St Pancras trains i believe and onto Stratford - making a Heathrow to Chunnel train link in well under an hour). (Why the Crossrail scheme was not finished before the 2012 Olympics is totally mind boggling.)

But now according to Transport for London web site it appears funding is in place and the dig will start?

Is this so? Would a change of Government derail the project if not started?

The only mind boggling questions about the Olympics is why on earth we're going ahead with this absurd junket. The world's stuffed with Olympics facilities other suckers have forked out for, and we ought to let the people of Beijing, Sydney, Athens or Atlanta have a go at recouping the money they've chucked down the drain, rather than adding to the squander.

Crossrail legislation has now gone through parliament, and there's adequate-ish financing in place. There is NO Heathrow- Kings Cross connection planned, since Crossrail's never been intended to do anything so useful.

There's no Conservative opposition to the project - even though it doesn't provide direct trains from Cameron's favourite station to Heathrow or to the Eurostar - so a change of government won't change much. Whether the scheme will survive the inevitable cost over-runs is a different matter.

Flim - i thought Atlanta or twere it LA turned a profit on the Olympics

I suggest the Olympics may be a better economic magnet than say the State-supported Doltocracy of the Monarchy

PS:

At present, Eurostar doesn't stop at Stratford - which Crossrail will go to - though Eurostar tracks run through the station.

I found myself sitting next to a Crossrail honcho I know vaguely the other day. I asked him about the status of Crossrail/Eurostar connections. He changed the subjet abruptly.

There are many possible explanations for this. One of them might well be that Eurostar just don't see any point in slowing the train down for a handful of people from Maidenhead who'll get the tube to St Pancras from Tottenham Court Rd come what may.

Or lots of other things. But I'd bet on Britain coming third in this year's Olympics before a Eurostar/Crossrail connection.

It's that unlikely.

"the Olympics may be a better economic magnet "

Tell the people of Sydney that.

"Money was spent subsidiing pointless activities"

My particular favourite was, being completely incapable of cleaning fallen leaves off the tracks, which incapacited the system without fail every year, they took it on themselves to cut down the trees bordering the tracks, resulting in the emabankment, which were held firm by the tree roots, collapsing.

My favourite is "the wrong kind of snow".

I was on a train Brighton-London that had to be severealy delayed at the point of a Land Slip - the steep muddy sloping sides where the line sliced thru a large hill - the muddy hill after awful rains began to slip away

So trains had to crawl thru a make-shift mud guard for quite a stretch as a precaution

Other passengers said that Rail Track or whatever had cut all the trees down the summer before this Christmas time mud slide. These are the bizarre things you seem to encounter in Britain and no where else.

Yup Stratford International is now simply Stratford

Ebbsfleet International is now about the only stop between London and civilization - though a few trains stop still at Ashford International.

Anyway CrossRail promises to help the beleagured London Tube's serious overcrowding that is expected to increase as more folks use the Tube. London is one of the few mega cities in Europe that is actually gaining people - including many car-less immigrants and Tube demand is expected to surge - without CrossRail it would be a disaster.

Paris did its CrossRail about 30 years ago - Britain is often transport wise about that far behind

Still waiting for first true high-speed line (besides the Chunnel train line)

One time in the Paris metro, I saw a bum climb down on the track to get to the other side of the station. As he was crossing, he stepped very deliberately on the third rail and I thought I was going to see fireworks. He continued along his way with no problem and that's when I realized that the top of the rail (in the metro at least) is insulated.

Were the 2 idiots found, I hope so. Don't they realise smoking is bad for them !!

The live track is quite safe as long as there is absolutely no remote possibility of any other part of the body or clothing coming close to any earth connection or ground via water or dirty air.

As the chances of that are just as remote I suspect staying away is the best course of action. The little bird that sits on the High tension electricity wires is quite safe until he touches something else.

As for the Olympics, yes it does cost a huge amount of money but there will be massive revenue from the staging of the games and the legacy will be top facilities for many generations to come. Priceless.

Flanner you know the cost of everything and the value of nothing !!

R

Kerouac - there was of course the famous cases of a few years back of clochards shoving some folks onto the tracks for refusing to give them money - think a lady got killed

but for the third rail - hopefully would have a protective covering - esp in London where many are open air and could kill tons of wildlife

But in Chamonix where there is a train run by the SNCF using third rail technology a cheminot once explained to me and my son that one would have to touch both the live rail and another rail to be fried. Or standing in water perhaps

the metro or one of the other free commuter papers clearly said that the woman ALMOST was thrown on to the 3rd rail. of course she also could have been killed by a train.

but who cares....as long as we can still boast about our 'gun free' society.