London Terror. Not if when!
#21
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31
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With all due respect, Sylvia - Your point is, Im sure - not lost on the [presumably] younger people who post here (I'm guessing you mean anywhere under 50?)...
But, you cannot deny that the scale of terrorism has increased exponentially since the days we all studied in those history books. While it's been around a long long time, it's never been so completely invasive to the way of life on a Global scale as it is today. Terrorism has evolved, like most other things do. History might well remind us of ever-present conflicts, but the reality is, these are NOT your father's bombs and gunmen.
But, you cannot deny that the scale of terrorism has increased exponentially since the days we all studied in those history books. While it's been around a long long time, it's never been so completely invasive to the way of life on a Global scale as it is today. Terrorism has evolved, like most other things do. History might well remind us of ever-present conflicts, but the reality is, these are NOT your father's bombs and gunmen.
#22
Original Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
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#23
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,106
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Well said, Sylvia! I'm with you.
It's curious that those who attack France and Germany don't understand that they are aiding the terrorists - one of whose aims is to split the Western World and to create schisms.
Americans tend to think that terrorism means only New York City and that only Americans fight terrorism. Americans think that fighting terrorism should be led by Americans - "You're either with us or against us".
Terrorism is a bit more complex than that.
One of the worst terrorist attacks in the US was Oklahoma City, a purely domestic American occurrence.
It's going to take all of us in the whole wide world, working together, to combat terrorism. Let's not fall into the terrorists' plans and start attacking one another. Let's join together and fight terrorism together.
It's sort of like Megan's Law. The moment you know there is a child abduction, you broadcast far and wide. Does it matter who actually responds? Of course not! If Average Joe spots the abductor's car, he calls it in.
In the same way, we should be more democratic about who's going to respond to the terrorist attacks and who's going to lead and who's going to follow. It is going to take ALL OF US to defeat terrorism. And, you know what? The non-terrorists in the world FAR outnumber the terrorists. If we work together, we can do it.
It's curious that those who attack France and Germany don't understand that they are aiding the terrorists - one of whose aims is to split the Western World and to create schisms.
Americans tend to think that terrorism means only New York City and that only Americans fight terrorism. Americans think that fighting terrorism should be led by Americans - "You're either with us or against us".
Terrorism is a bit more complex than that.
One of the worst terrorist attacks in the US was Oklahoma City, a purely domestic American occurrence.
It's going to take all of us in the whole wide world, working together, to combat terrorism. Let's not fall into the terrorists' plans and start attacking one another. Let's join together and fight terrorism together.
It's sort of like Megan's Law. The moment you know there is a child abduction, you broadcast far and wide. Does it matter who actually responds? Of course not! If Average Joe spots the abductor's car, he calls it in.
In the same way, we should be more democratic about who's going to respond to the terrorist attacks and who's going to lead and who's going to follow. It is going to take ALL OF US to defeat terrorism. And, you know what? The non-terrorists in the world FAR outnumber the terrorists. If we work together, we can do it.
#26
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,300
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I get SOOO tired of people accusing France and Germany of cowering. Perhaps they understand that you aren't going to end terrorism by annihilating countries where terrorists have set up shop. Newsflash: They'll move somewhere else.
Perhaps they understand that you've got to look at the things that lead people to join terrorist organizations.
Perhaps they understand that you've got to look at the things that lead people to join terrorist organizations.
#28
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31
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I am inclined to disagree with easytraveler's sweeping generalizatons of what "Americans tend to think".
That's an incredibly naive (and dare I say media-inspired?) read on what Americans, as a whole, think terrorism means. In fact, MANY Americans are well-aware that our country's involvement in facing, dealing with & combatting terrorism was long overdue. We got away with years of enjoying our innocence, and you'd be hard pressed to find an educated person who won't admit that. I recently moved from the East Coast to the MidWest, and was somewhat relieved to learn that people here are as enlightened (if not moreso in fact) than people on the East Coast with respect to a reality-check on America's role in the Global efforts at battling terrorism and striving to prevent or aid political conflict. I see less & less of this narcissism that you seem to feel is so prevalent among U.S. citizens. I also see more empathy towards alternatives to military action, and I'm living in the middle of where most of those soldiers in Iraq actually hale from.
No one in the country has forgotten Oklahoma City, and no one is unaware that enemies are within our midst, and sometimes born & raised American...and every bit as dangerous as those overseas.
I don;t personally feel that Germany or France have "cowered" - but likewise, I have to ask: Am I the only person sick and tired of the "Americans care only about themselves and want to rule the entire world" theorem? I think BOTH positions are overused, and have proven incosistent with the truth.
That's an incredibly naive (and dare I say media-inspired?) read on what Americans, as a whole, think terrorism means. In fact, MANY Americans are well-aware that our country's involvement in facing, dealing with & combatting terrorism was long overdue. We got away with years of enjoying our innocence, and you'd be hard pressed to find an educated person who won't admit that. I recently moved from the East Coast to the MidWest, and was somewhat relieved to learn that people here are as enlightened (if not moreso in fact) than people on the East Coast with respect to a reality-check on America's role in the Global efforts at battling terrorism and striving to prevent or aid political conflict. I see less & less of this narcissism that you seem to feel is so prevalent among U.S. citizens. I also see more empathy towards alternatives to military action, and I'm living in the middle of where most of those soldiers in Iraq actually hale from.
No one in the country has forgotten Oklahoma City, and no one is unaware that enemies are within our midst, and sometimes born & raised American...and every bit as dangerous as those overseas.
I don;t personally feel that Germany or France have "cowered" - but likewise, I have to ask: Am I the only person sick and tired of the "Americans care only about themselves and want to rule the entire world" theorem? I think BOTH positions are overused, and have proven incosistent with the truth.
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Katietwin, I have many American friends and they tend to think like you.
However, I must refer you to http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Project for the New American Century.
There are certainly some Americans who want to rule the whole world.
However, I must refer you to http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Project for the New American Century.
There are certainly some Americans who want to rule the whole world.
#32
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 488
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I won't let the terrorists win and I won't change my travel plans. My mother and I leave for the UK next week and we'll be in London part of the time, and we will ride the trains, buses and tube without hesitation. If our destination was Spain rather than Britain we'd still go. The tragic terror events of the past few years - not only 9/11 and 3/11 but Oklahoma City, Columbine and what just happend in Fresno, CA have shown that it could potentially be just as dangerous - or safe - to stay at home so there's no point in canceling travel plans. My mom and her cousin went to the UK three weeks after 9/11 and while the cousin was nervous - she'd nver traveled abroad before - Mom never for a moment considered canceling or changing their plans. On the other hand, my sister-in-law canceled a planned trip to Ireland after 9/11 and that made me real sad and a bit angry - what a waste.
#33
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 49
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The truth is there are close to 300 MILLION Americans (compared to 60 million in the U.K. and France, 80 million in Germany) and any generalization (such as the mentioned "Americans care only about themselves and want to rule the entire world"
is ridiculous. There are far too many varying opinions in a country of our size to paint us all with the same brush.
Another thing...not to downplay other acts of terrorism....Oklahoma for example....but 9/11 murdered over 2000 Americans in ONE MORNING. If this happened in another country such as Germany, who is to say what steps Germany would have taken. They might have done exactly what the United States has done. Our governments justification for invading countries that knowingly harbor terrorists= thousands of dead Americans in one morning and the unwillingness to do nothing to protect ourselves. Ruling the world is not the goal.
is ridiculous. There are far too many varying opinions in a country of our size to paint us all with the same brush. Another thing...not to downplay other acts of terrorism....Oklahoma for example....but 9/11 murdered over 2000 Americans in ONE MORNING. If this happened in another country such as Germany, who is to say what steps Germany would have taken. They might have done exactly what the United States has done. Our governments justification for invading countries that knowingly harbor terrorists= thousands of dead Americans in one morning and the unwillingness to do nothing to protect ourselves. Ruling the world is not the goal.
#34
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,327
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Quote from above post
quot;Our governments justification for invading countries that knowingly harbor terrorists= thousands of dead Americans in one morning and the unwillingness to do nothing to protect ourselves"I must have missed something--when did we invade Saudi Arabia?
#35
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,106
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I hate not to generalize 
but has anyone noticed or has anyone written on the significant link between the two dates?
9-11 is the emergency number
3-11 is the non-emergency number
(At least, 3-11 is the non-emergency number where I live)

but has anyone noticed or has anyone written on the significant link between the two dates?
9-11 is the emergency number
3-11 is the non-emergency number
(At least, 3-11 is the non-emergency number where I live)
#36
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 178
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Well, I would say a lot of Americans are afraid to visit London this year, but the fear has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with the falling Dollar. London incidental prices are high by US standards to start with, with today's exchange rate they are double that again.
I'm actually considering abandoning a planned trip and losing $1800 in paid airfares, because the other costs are climbing so quickly that the cost of the trip is more than double what I had planned when I purchased the tickets 8 months ago.
I'm actually considering abandoning a planned trip and losing $1800 in paid airfares, because the other costs are climbing so quickly that the cost of the trip is more than double what I had planned when I purchased the tickets 8 months ago.
#37
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 109
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Thank you Katietwin for those much-needed observations. How facile that certain posters are privy to what "Americans" think. And how ironic that this notion of an entire people in lockstep with its government is precisely al-Qaeda's rationale for wholesale slaughter, be it New York or Madrid: Babies, foreigners, fellow Muslims - all equally guilty as conspirators of the infidel. I'm constantly being told that unlike Americans, Europeans don't confuse a nation's government with its people. I'm not convinced.
And for those posters advising us to look to the roots of terrorism for a solution, let me share with you some of the stated, published and non-negotiable objectives of al Qaeda: The destruction of the United States; The complete destruction of Israel; Muslim rule of law in every country throughout the world. So now, what's the solution?
And for those posters advising us to look to the roots of terrorism for a solution, let me share with you some of the stated, published and non-negotiable objectives of al Qaeda: The destruction of the United States; The complete destruction of Israel; Muslim rule of law in every country throughout the world. So now, what's the solution?
#38

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,830
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We'll we will be spending 4 days in London in early April, which will be after spending 4 days in Madrid and we live in NYC. The reality of it all is, I am no safer at home than in London or Madrid, so I might as well relax and enjoy.
#40
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 269
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Living just half a mile from Washington D.C., my family and I have gotten used to the constant threat of terrorism, so London scares us not at all. It never crossed our minds after 3/11 to cancel our plans. We leave for London in two weeks and can hardly wait. Yes, we'll be availing ourselves of the wonderful public transport system. Life is for living to the fullest, come what may.

