mdtravel

I've been to London once, and am considering a reeturn. When I was there, I was surprised to find two things: many public houses (pubs) are chains and how early they close. I have some quesitons:

1. What are some good or interesting REAL non-chain pubs in London? A place that might carry more than one kind of beer, and non-touristy haunts.

2. Why do they close so early? I think they close at 11:00. Are there any that stay open later than this? The bar in my hotel stayed open later; why can they stay open later than the pubs?

Thanks folks.

PatrickLondon

Non-touristy places would be hard to find in central London - and they're not going to be like that for long if we start recommending them here!

On point 2: the law requires it, since a push to ensure munitions workers in WW1 would turn up in the morning in a fit state to make shells and such. There have been various liberalisations since, and the government is currently moving towards allowing later hours where the local authority agrees, but now that the reality approaches, a lot of people who once thought it was a good idea as a way of combatting our ver yreal problem of binge-drinking are now having second thoughts about the details, which may yet derail the legislation. Private clubs can stay open later (i.e., in effect, they're simply bars with a door charge). Hotels have little or no time restriction on when they may serve their residents: not sure what the position is about people who just walk in off the street, but my guess is that most hotels wouldn't welcome them anyway after normal pub hours - not least if there was a chance that local complaints about disturbance would lead to their losing their drinks licence.

mdtravel

How about some good non-chain pubs?

nini

I think there is a website called findapint.com--not sure but they rate the pubs. Here are three that we liked and they did not disappoint: The Grenadier, Cheshire Cheese House, and Nag's Head.

henneth

Most London pubs belong to a chain, often hidden to the untrained eye but a decent chain is JDWetherspoons with inexpensive food and a wide choice of beer. A non-chain pub that's worth a look at is the Porterhouse in Maiden Lane between Covent Garden and the Strand. It's an Irish brewpub with lots of world beers on sale. They have their other branch in Dublin.
As for licencing laws, it's last orders at 11pm, and at 10.30pm on Sundays. Any pub that's open later than that often charge admission, play loud music and have a line of scantily clad people waiting outside to get in from around 10pm

BTilke

First, I am no pub expert by any means. Nor can I tell offhand whether a pub is a chain or not. But I did like Charrinton's on Holland Park Avenue (100 Holland Park Ave, I think), not far from the Holland Park tube stop, also on the 94 bus route. It's *very* attractive, not too smoke-filled, and there weren't any belligerent binge drinkers when we were there...I don't think it's very touristy but have only been there a few times.

Kayb95

The website nini is referring to is www.fancyapint.com It gives you reviews of pubs and you can locate pubs according to location or closest tube stop.

You can also download a PDA version and take it with you if you have a PDA.

nini

thanks for the reminder Kayb on that webite. Old Cheshire Cheese is on Fleet St & very near Temple Church if you are a fan of DaVinci Code. It is worth a look. the other two pubs are in the Mayfair/Knightsbr area not too far from Harrods. We were the only tourists in these pubs--all very popular with locals. Good food too.

adamhornets

There are some pubs that stay open later (or open earlier) to cater for market workers etc. One I like that stays open until 1.30am and is not too far from the main tourist area in The Pakenham Arms in Pakenham Street. It caters to the postal workers at Mount Pleasant sorting offices. Very good beer and I saw Sue Pollard from Hi-De-Hi in there once! Nearest tubes: Chancery Lane or Farringdon

You usually can't go wrong in a pub owned by Fullers or Youngs. Both fine London breweries.

flanneruk

mdtravel:

For most of the past century, virtually all English and Welsh pubs have been chains. Various governmemt meddlings have changed the nature of chains every couple of decades, and the degree to which they've been connected to breweries. And operational fads within the chains have shifted the balance between chain-employed publicans and self-employed franchisees.

But the traditional English pub is, and for most purposes practically always (in towns and cities) has been, part of a chain. Though even at the system's mid-70s nadir, you'd have been hard pressed to find a pub with only one kind of beer. It's at least 25 years since I've seen any pub anywhere in Britain with less than a dozen, though there are seldom more than six on draught.

Given the thousands of pubs in London, no web site can begin to recommend pubs properly. You need to buy a copy of the Good Pub Guide and trawl through it area by area.

sheila

The other thing you might like to try is Camra (the Campaign for Real Ale). Whilst membership or recommendation is not a guarantee that a pub is independent, it's agood indication, because the breweries and chains won't put in the effort needed to look after cask conditioned beer.

mdtravel

Thanks for all the replies folks. flanneruk, that was very informative. On my one trip there in 2002, it seems most of the places I went in served three to four beers. The ones that I seem to remember the most were Kronnenberg and something with an arrow in it I think. Every pub I went in had those on tap and not much more. It was very disappointing even though most pubs had their own feel; many McDonalds also have their own feel to them!

ira

>Hotels have little or no time restriction on when they may serve their residents: not sure what the position is about people who just walk in off the street, ...<

At closing time they ask you if you are a guest of the hotel.

You say, "Yes".

They keep serving you.

You say, "No".

They look at you apologetically and ask you to leave.

sprin2

I second the CAMRA suggestion. Their guide is the Good Beer Guide and it can be useful. Also, we like the Good Pub Guide. Try the Jerusalem Tavern, 55 Britton St. It is tied to the St. Peters Brewery, their only pub in London, and well worth a visit.

flanneruk

mdtravel:

Fiddlesticks.

Every pub offers on draught at least two varieties of draught bitter: the thing with the arrow in was almost certainly Strongbow, a cider (not to be confused with the apple juice Americans describe as cider).

Additionally, I've not seen a pub in years that didn't sell at least two varieties on draught of that fizzy, undrinkably cold muck we call lager - one ghastly UK brand (like Carling) and one overpriced, UK-brewed version of a Continental brand (like Kronenburg). And the overwhelming majority of pubs sell draught Guinness as well. It must be at least three decades since I last saw an English pub with less than five or six draught beers.

All of which is aside from the 5-10 bottled products, though admittedly many of them are kiddies' drinks (like the copycat Budweiser) masquerading as beer. But most central London pubs will have three or four drinkable beers (like real Budweiser, brewed in Ceske Budojovice) in bottles these days.

If all you could see was premium-priced lager, you weren't looking properly. The reason chains of pubs are such a fundamental part of out way of life is that the brand, has traditionally identified the main draught beers on sale. People still drink at the Dog and Duck because it was a Fuller's pub, or a Young's - which means their excellent range of beers wilol always be on draught, in addition to the guest beers proper pubs always feature.

janis

mdtravel: I'm definitely w/ flanner on this one. I cannot imagine ANY pub in the UK having only Kronenburg (a lager) and Strongbow (a cider) on tap.

Maybe your memory is fuzzy -- or maybe you just never tried any of the bitters, ales, porters, etc.