kristanp

Hi! I found these boards recently (I was actually over at the Frommer's site before--but as I was looking through earlier posts, I see that you guys seem to really know your stuff and are extremely helpful in the planning process). So I'm hoping that rings true for me as well and I can take advantage of your knowledge!

My friend and I will be in London from March 14-March 22. I was wondering if I could bounce some ideas off of y'all for our itinerary to help get a feel of what we can/won't be able to do. Any help is MUCH appreciated as I am doing this on my own for our trip. Thanks in advance! Oh, and go easy on me if it wouldn't work... the only trip I've ever "planned" was to DC by myself and I was GO, GO, GO! Like 10 miles of walking a day (for 4 days) go!

Ok, here goes:

Day One (Sunday, March 14)
8:25: Arrive @ Heathrow--take the Heathrow Express to Southwark where our hotel is. I figure arrive at hotel around 11ish?
11:45-1:00: Wander around St. James Park/Kensington Palace for some pics.
1:00-4:00: Sandeman's Walking Tour: begins at Wellington Arch (we will see Buckingham Palace, Chruchill's War Cabinet Bunker, St. Martins-in-the-fields, Westminster Abbey, Trafalgar Square, Nelson's Column, St. James Park, 10 Downing St, Hourseguards, White Hall, Big Ben, end at Houses of Parliment.)
5:00: Stroll down Brick Lane, outside photos of Christ Church (not really sure what else to do to fill time, other than dinner... any recommendations here?)
6:45-9:15: Jack the Ripper Tour

Day Two (Monday, March 15)
8:15-6:45PM: Leeds Castle, Canterbury, Dover Tour ending with a River Cruise on the Thames. Arrive back to Westminster Pier @ 6:45.
6:45--?: Again, not sure what to do here either.

Day Three (Tuesday, March 16)
9:30-9:50: The Monument (go up and see the view)
10:45-12:15: St. Paul's Cathedral Tour (or... would it be better to do the Audio tour of 45 min?)
12:15-1:00: Lunch
1:00-1:20: Dr. Johnson's House (outside pics only)
1:20-2:00: Walking Time over to Westminster Abbey
2:30-4:00: Westminster Abbey Tour (again... Audio Tour better? Or would it be better to just pick ONE church tour... I can't decide. I'm a history person, so I'd love to see both... but I understand it might be a bit much or too alike maybe?)
4:30-6:00: HMS Belfast

Day Four (Wednesday, March 17)
5:30AM: Leave for Overnight Trip to Paris through RailEurope

Day Five (Thuesday, March 18)
Palace of Versailles
9:40PM: Arrive back in London

Day Six (Friday, March 19)
9:45: Watch the Tower Bridge Lift
10:30-1:00: Tower of London, Jewel House, White Tower, Bloody Tower
1:00-1:45: Lunch
2:00-3:30: Tower Bridge Exhibition (is it worth it? Do we need to stay for the whole tour? I'd really just like to go to the top for the view, but if I'm going to St. Paul's and The Monument, do I need another panoramic view of London... is this one "different"?)
4:00-5:00: Kings Cross/British Library to view/Magna Carta

Day Seven (Saturday, March 20)
8:15AM-6:45PM: Windsor, Stonehenge, and Bath tour ending at Victoria Station

Day Eight (Sunday, March 21)
10AM: Natural History Museum
Open Day here... I'm sure my friend will want to GO somewhere. She wanted to squeeze Dublin into this trip for the 16-17th for St. Patricks Day... just to "be" there. So, any ideas here?

Day Nine (Monday, March 22)
10:40 Flight-out of Heathrow (what time would y'all suggest we leave our hotel to get there on time? Around 7?)

Again, thank you SO SO SO much for ANY feedback you would provide!

mnapoli

Your first two days seems a little ambitious-I think you are underestimating the effects of jet lag. I would skip the Jack the Ripper tour and would get some rest so that you won't be dead the rest of the week.

The rest of your itinerary seems doable, but please pace yourself. Don't rush around so much that you miss the things you should be enjoying.

kristanp

Thanks mnapoli... I "thought" about it, just didn't think about the jetlag... My friend really wanted to do that and I didn't really know where else to put it so I stuck it there. I'll definitely reconsider that!

janisj

First of all -- you simply cannot plan your days based on exact times. Something like your
>>9:30-9:50: The Monument
10:45-12:15: St. Paul's Cathedral Tour
12:15-1:00: Lunch
1:00-1:20: Dr. Johnson's House<< Will go off schedule the minute you step out the door of your hotel.

Cities like London just don't work to 10 minute increments . . .

"<i>8:25: Arrive @ Heathrow--take the Heathrow Express to Southwark where our hotel is. I figure arrive at hotel around 11ish?</i>"

Your Day 1 is a bit of a mess. The Heathrow Express does not go anywhere even remotely near Southwark. Using the HEX for Southwark make no sense whatsoever. You'd either have to take a VERY expensive taxi across all of London (the HEX + Taxi would cost about £60-£70 for two) - OR - the HEX plus a long tube ride w/ changes -- and you wouldn't get to Southwark by 11:00

You hope to go from LHR to Southwark, check in, and then go back all the way across central London to get to Kensington Palace and then back across all of Kens Gardens/Hyde Park to get to Wellington Arch. (St James's Park is not near Kensington Palace). And then all the way across London again to Brick Lane. All while jetlagged!

Day 3 -- The Monument to St Paul's to Westminster Abbey to HMS Belfast has you criss crossing back and forth across all of central London.

My recommendation is to sit down w/ a map and see where all these sites are and arrange things more geographically.

Where exactly are you staying? The easiest way to get from LHR to Southwark would be a pre-booked car service like justairports.com.

janisj

Meant to add - you do want spend some time outside in the fresh air on day 1 to help you recover/acclimate. But TWO walking tours and a late night are more than most could manage. I wouldn't plan anything strenuous on your first day and nothing that requires being anywhere at a certain time.

Nikki

You are going to Paris for only one night, so I wouldn't go to Versailles unless that is the main reason you are going to Paris at all. With so little time, I would spend the entire time in central Paris.

PatrickLondon

Forget the Heathrow Express - it's an expensive and roundabout way to get where you want to go.

Take the tube - Piccadilly Line to Hammersmith, walk five steps to the other side of the platform, take the District Line to Westminster, and change there for the Jubilee Line to Southwark.

kristanp

@patricklondon & @janisj, thanks for the advice about the Express. I hadn't quite gotten into that part of my researching yet... I was just going by the books and advice I'd heard other places.

@janisj, we will be staying in the Holiday Inn Express off Southwark.

@janisj, thanks for the help with Day One... I hadn't even considered that it was 2 walking tours and such a long day. I was just trying to get my friend's interest in... as for the St. James/Kensington, I was just guessing about where those were... my map, from Fodor's actually, cuts off after Buckingham Palace, so I don't see anything west of that.

as for Day 3, I was originally thinking about Westminster to HMS b/c it is on the South Bank where our hotel is.

So, what about this revised itinerary (I do understand it will not go this way when I get there, but it helps me play it out in my mind and remember which things are by each other and what area of the city they can be found:

Day One (Sunday, March 14)
8:25: Arrive @ Heathrow, go back to hotel and rest.
1:00-4:00: Sandeman's Walking Tour: begins at Wellington Arch (we will see Buckingham Palace, Chruchill's War Cabinet Bunker, St. Martins-in-the-fields, Westminster Abbey, Trafalgar Square, Nelson's Column, St. James Park, 10 Downing St, Hourseguards, White Hall, Big Ben, end at Houses of Parliment.)

Day Two (Monday, March 15)
8:15-6:45PM: Leeds Castle, Canterbury, Dover Tour ending with a River Cruise on the Thames. Arrive back to Westminster Pier @ 6:45.


Day Three (Tuesday, March 16)

9:30-9:50: Arrive early for the opening of The Monument (go up and see the view)
10:30-1:00: Tower of London, Jewel House, White Tower, Bloody Tower
1:00-2:00: Lunch/Walk to St. Paul’s (says it's a 15-20 min. walk)
2:00-3:30: St. Paul's Cathedral Tour
3:50-4:20: Dr. Johnson's House (outside pics only)
5:00-8:00: Brick Lane/British Museum to view/Magna Carta (it’s open til 8 tonight)/Kings Cross

Day Four (Wednesday, March 17)
5:30AM: Leave for Overnight Trip to Paris through RailEurope (sleeeeep!!!)

Day Five (Thuesday, March 18)
Palace of Versailles
9:40PM: Arrive back in London

Day Six (Friday, March 19)
9:45: Watch the Tower Bridge Lift
11:00-12:30: Westminster Abbey Tour
12:00-1:00: Lunch
1:30-3:30: Natural History Museum
4:30-6:00: HMS Belfast

Day Seven (Saturday, March 20)
8:15AM-6:45PM: Windsor, Stonehenge, and Bath tour ending at Victoria Station

Day Eight (Sunday, March 21)
Oxford? My friend wanted to go here… I do as well… just not sure if there is time.
Speaker’s Corner? Heard this was something that might be interesting to see…

Day Nine (Monday, March 22)
10:40 Flight-out of Heathrow (what time would y'all suggest we leave our hotel to get there on time? Around 7?)

texasbookworm

Definitely invest now in a map and begin to plot routes--you'll see what works better if you have it in front of you, probably.

The Magna Carta is in the British LIBRARY not the Museum. The Museum needs many hours (of course, you could just see the Rosetta Stone and a couple things and be out in an hour--but don't) and the Library's Treasure Room is much much smaller and can take much less time. They're close to each other.

I'd suggest you rethink a couple things--why not combine the Bridge lift with Tower Tour instead of going back to Westminster Abbey? And I'd suggest being both at the Tower and at the Abbey when they open to avoid lines as much as possible. Day 6 seems especially back and forth.

YES go to Oxford. If you look at threads here you'll get lots of ideas. We went on the bus (Oxford Espress--could have used Oxford Tube) and that was great. Depends on what you want to see--there are some good tours from the vistory center but not sure what on Sunday.

GBbabe

I have a quibble with Day 7 - Windsor, Stonehenge, Bath ..... Well, I suppose you could do all three by jumping off the coach, taking a few pics, and getting right back on the coach and head off for the next destination. Stonehenge & Bath are doable together, but Windsor took me 2-3 hours both times I have been there (Castle tour and St. George's Chapel)and I can't imagine the tour would be there that long and still allow you much time in Bath, especially if you are back by 6:45 p.m. Bath took me several hours also.

marysidney

If you are interested in history, a good book to read ahead of time is Kettler and Trimble's Amateur Historian's Guide to Medieval and Renaissance London (http://www.amazon.com/Amateur-Histor...ref=pd_sim_b_2). They give a good overview, and lots of background information on the sights you're going to see, plus they may suggest some itineraries that will be more efficient.
Have fun! Do try to schedule in some down time, just to sit in the park and watch the daffodils blow, or walk along the Thames by yourself (you'll be spending lots of time in groups, it seems).

kristanp

@texasbookworm: thanks for pointing out the British Museum/Library mixup... I realized that before I posted but thought I'd changed it! I like combining the Tower with the Bridge Lift. I'll have to pitch it to my friend... and hopefully it'll pass. I just mentioned the other day that we might not get to go to Dublin as our original plan and she wasn't too happy about that. She proceeded to tell me that more than half the stuff we had talked about doing in London, she could care less if she actually does and that I can always "go back" and do them. Guess that's where we differ in our plans... I'd like to relax and enjoy London as it's a city I've been fascinated with since I was a little girl.

@marysidney, thanks for the book reference! I'll definitely look into checking it out before I go. Sounds like it's a great read! And I'm hoping to be able to catch some reasonable weather in March so I can sit and enjoy the parks!

alihutch

I'd like to relax and enjoy London as it's a city I've been fascinated with since I was a little girl.

The last thing that your itinerary sounds is relaxing.....even without Dublin

janisj

I see red flags for sure -- not only are you dashing all around London helter skelter -- which is all fixable, you have a traveling companion who is throwing an attitude about fitting in Dublin -- maybe not so fixable. (Did I miss it, where did Dublin come in?)

She doesn't seem so gung ho about London. You are. Could end up causing 'issues' . . . .

kristanp

@janisj, you seem to be very knowledgeable about London. I think I've got the Dublin thing worked out where hopefully we won't have "issues." In the beginning of our planning process, she told me everything that we were looking at doing was great, so that came as a shock to me.

Now, you say that our schedule is fixable... how? All I can think to do is thisand it still isn't the best of schedules)

Sunday:
Arrive @ 8:25, go back to hotel which is located right by the Tate Modern Gallery.
1:00-4:00: Sandeman's Walking Tour

Monday:
8:15-6:45PM: Leeds Castle, Canterbury, Dover Tour ending with a River Cruise on the Thames. Arrive back to Westminster Pier @ 6:45.

Tuesday:
9:00-12:30: Tower of London, Jewel House, White Tower, Bloody Tower
12:30-2:00: Stroll through streets (Dr. Johnson’s House, Monument?) Walk to St. Paul’s
2:00-3:30: St. Paul's Cathedral Tour
5:00-8:00: British Library to view/Magna Carta (it’s open until 8 tonight)

Wednesday:
5:30AM: leave for Paris

Thursday:
Paris

Friday:
9:00-1:00: Greenwich/Lunch
2:30: (Be back by, says 40-50 min. on Tube/Bus) Watch the Tower Bridge Lift (only scheduled times today are 9:45, 10:30, 1:30, 2:30)
3:30-5:50: Natural History Museum

Saturday:
8:15AM-8:45PM: Windsor, Stonehenge, and Bath tour ending at Victoria Station

Sunday:
Oxford

Monday:
Flight back to US @ 10:40AM

janisj

A few things to think about to help the two of you prioritize . .

• If it was me - I might not schedule an organized 3 hour walking tour on day 1. It <i>might</i> be fine, and being outside is a great idea. But having to keep up (and pay attention) in a jet lagged stupor might be an ordeal. Perhaps better to just go for a walk along the river (What is the bridge lift schedule that day?) stop where and when you want and sit down for beverages or a light meal.

Or even a H-o-H-o bus tour where you ride around on an open top, double-decker bus, get off when you want to visit something and then board another H-o-H-o. You are outside but aren't forced to walk when you tire.

• How important are Leeds/Canterbury/Dover to you? Just seems like a hassle for an all day, out of town bus tour right after getting to London. That tour spends a lot of time just sitting in the bus and the time allowed for Dover Castleis very inadequate.

• On Tues, if you walk it/explore, I think you simply won't have time for the Tower and St Paul's before they close it up for Evensong prep. Getting out of the Tower by 12:30 will be tough - but doable -- but you do need to eat somewhere, either at the Tower or near St Paul's There is a bus (#15) that goes from the Tower right to St Paul's. If you take the bus you'll have plenty of time at St Paul's.

Just plan on 1/2 a day for the Tower.

• Friday is easy and you could actually add something (especially if you saw a bridge lift on day 1). Is the Natural History museum important? I ask because it seems an unusual choice for most adults. Not that it isn't an interesting museum, but many would prefer the V&A or British or National Gallery or one of the Tates, etc.

• Sat/Sun is back to back out-of-town day trips. That can be very tiring. I'd choose one of those and spend the other day in London. That coach tour of Windsor/Stonehenge/Bath really doesn't have enough time at Windsor and REALLY doesn't give you enough time in Bath. You spend a lot of £££ for a lot of coach time.

• You are spending 2 days in Paris, 1 day in Kent, 1 day riding all over west England from Windsor to Bath and back, 1 day in Oxford and 1/2 a day in Greenwich -- and only 2.5 days actually IN London -- and one of those will be jet lagged.

texasbookworm

Maybe I missed it in the thread--but exactly why are you locked into the Sandeman's Tour? I know nothing about it--but if you have several sites you want to go by and a map and a guide book, why not plan your own route? You might not get quite as much info BUT you can go where and when you want and take pics or whatever on your timetable. Not that some tours can't be the best thing, but--

Did you ever get a map and look carefully at what you're proposing? I doubt if you will want to walk back and forth to Dr. J's house that long day--it's not on the way on the plan you have that day (whereas the Monument is on the way between the Tower and St. Paul's)

Get a map of Oxford and sit down with a list of what you want to see there, too, to plan your walk--internet and Fodor's threads will help--and the walks from their Tourist Info office are good, too.

kristanp

The Sandeman's Tour is important to my friend. Apparently they only offer like 9 around the world and she's been to a few and think they are wonderful... so she wants to be able to claim she's done one more of their tours. And she'd really like to do it the day we get there to get acquainted with our surroundings. Maybe I can convince her to take the Hop-on-hop-off tour (which is what I'd rather do, but this is her trip as well and I don't want to control everything.)

The bridge lift is only scheduled for that Friday, the 19th (as of right now.) They have a scheduled maintenance lift on the 13th, but we won't be there then. So maybe another day will pop open for us...?

As for Dover, Leeds, and Canterbury; I know it's a lot of time in a coach tour, but I've heard that Leeds Castle is a beauty to see and I'd love to see the cliffs of Dover in person. I guess if I just KNEW I'd be able to make it back over, I'd give that one up, but I'm just not sure if I'll ever make it back (granted, I am 25, so I've got some time). But if it's not smart, I suppose I can give it up. As for the other tour, I tried to see if I could plan a trip to Stonehenge and Windsor the same day, but I couldn't seem to get it to pan out AND make it to Bath on a separate trip since my friend would like to go to Oxford(I've read so much Jane Austen that Bath is a place I'd love to see for just a bit). And the reviews I've read from the company (Premium Tours) have been pretty good. Obviously, they state it's rushed, but they all enjoyed the time they had there. They also have a Windsor, Stonehenge, Oxford one and then maybe we could spend one day in Bath?

The Natural History Museum is important to me because I'm a nerd like that. I went to DC this past summer and spent loads of time in the Smithsonian there. I'm a teacher as well, so for me, the dinosaur exhibit would be a great photo experience to bring back for my first graders (we'll be studying them shortly after I get back). DC's dino exhibit was not all that wonderful and I didn't get very good pics.

I'll have to sit down here for a little bit longer and read some threads on Oxford though. I'm not too familiar with it (other than C.S. Lewis was there--I'm a fan of his work.) So I look forward to learning more about that city.

RaleighLaura

Hi-
If you are a Smithsonian person, do skip one of your travel around England days and spend more time at the British Museum and the Library. You will really enjoy it, and I think you'll be facinated by what you find. I have visited the Cabinet War Rooms twice, and if you're a history fan, it's a must do, and I don't mean just walk by
I did a day trip to Leeds, and while it is certainly beautiful, it's not, to me, worth losing a day in London over a short visit. I've never been to Dover, and want to go, but like you said, there is time...
Best wishes for a fabulous trip!

janisj

just some more to chew on . .

• If there is something she is dying to do and something you are dying to do -- go your separate ways now and then. London is super easy to navigate and get around on your own. You may find that 9 days stuck at the hip 24/7 is too much anyway. A few individual things may help you get along better in the long run. If she wants Oxford and you want Windsor -- then she can do Oxford and you -- well you get the idea

• Leeds really isn't that much to write home about. The gardens are really lovely but the castle is basically a conference center. Does the tour description state you see the White cliffs? Or the Castle? Which company is the tour w/ - then we can check out the tour description to see if there are any red flags.

• Bath is wonderful but you won't have much time there. If it was me -- I'd do a day trip to Bath independently by train and forget about Stonehenge and Windsor on the same day.