London crime stats
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:19 AM
#1
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London crime stats
According to this article:
http://tinyurl.com/ltm29
a high number of London street crimes happen in prosperous central areas visited by tourists...almost equalling the more "crime prone" areas of east London.
Comments? (need I ask?)
http://tinyurl.com/ltm29
a high number of London street crimes happen in prosperous central areas visited by tourists...almost equalling the more "crime prone" areas of east London.
Comments? (need I ask?)
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:57 AM
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This is what I do for a living so here goes....
That report is the level of recorded crime - ie crime that the person on the wrong end of it felt there was some point in reporting. There are a few reasons why one would do this. Firstly the items stolen were insured - which tends to skew the figures towards the prosperous middle classes (the potless don't have insurance).
Another possibility is that the person thinks there may be a point in telling the police as they may catch the people responsible. Again only the middle classes believe this. Those that live in poor areas know the chances of the police catching anyone are slim.
Finally there is the "honeypot" efffect. The west end is full of rich tourists who aren't that street smart with items of high value which in turn attracts those who wish to prey on them.
The nice bits of London aren't dangerous. Stonebridge Park is bl;oody deadly.
That report is the level of recorded crime - ie crime that the person on the wrong end of it felt there was some point in reporting. There are a few reasons why one would do this. Firstly the items stolen were insured - which tends to skew the figures towards the prosperous middle classes (the potless don't have insurance).
Another possibility is that the person thinks there may be a point in telling the police as they may catch the people responsible. Again only the middle classes believe this. Those that live in poor areas know the chances of the police catching anyone are slim.
Finally there is the "honeypot" efffect. The west end is full of rich tourists who aren't that street smart with items of high value which in turn attracts those who wish to prey on them.
The nice bits of London aren't dangerous. Stonebridge Park is bl;oody deadly.
Aug 23rd, 2006, 07:16 AM
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"Again only the middle classes believe this...." as in the likelihood of catching the thief/murderer, etc...
Does this mean the <b>police</b> don't believe it, either, and are just smiling sweetly and going through the motions when one reports a crime?
As a generalization, generalizations don't inspire confidence.
Does this mean the <b>police</b> don't believe it, either, and are just smiling sweetly and going through the motions when one reports a crime?
As a generalization, generalizations don't inspire confidence.
Aug 23rd, 2006, 07:39 AM
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The other point neither the story referenced nor Audere made is that these are ABSOLUTE numbers. Not crimes per head.
And there are an AWFUL lot more people milling round the West End - 24 hours a day - than there are in leafy Bromley. Or than whatever hellhole housing estate really does have a crime problem.
What matters is how likely a citizen or visitor is to get their wallet nicked or a punch in the face. And those chances are a great deal lower where you lot all gawp at the sites than where we - or worse, our poorer cousins - live.
And there are an AWFUL lot more people milling round the West End - 24 hours a day - than there are in leafy Bromley. Or than whatever hellhole housing estate really does have a crime problem.
What matters is how likely a citizen or visitor is to get their wallet nicked or a punch in the face. And those chances are a great deal lower where you lot all gawp at the sites than where we - or worse, our poorer cousins - live.
Aug 23rd, 2006, 07:45 AM
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Only two days ago this article appeared in our local newspaper ( I know it's not about London specifically) but interesting none the less.
"Through Government intervention, once safe England is now the most violent country in Europe, according to a UN survey. The final stage of the quick-fix of crime control governments seem so enchanted by - gun control - was applied in 1997. After 94 years of ever-increasing restrictive laws, handguns were banned. Each restrictive gun law resulted in an increase of crime, culminating in massive increases of over 300% in violent crime.
The crime rate in England now exceeds that of the U.S. in every category except murder and rape. These two are expected to soon overtake the U.S. which, after removing restrictive gun laws, is enjoying the lowest crime rates in memory."
Here in crime-ridden South Africa we are in the same boat as England.
There are no success stories where gun control laws have reduced either crime or the supply of guns to criminals.
"Through Government intervention, once safe England is now the most violent country in Europe, according to a UN survey. The final stage of the quick-fix of crime control governments seem so enchanted by - gun control - was applied in 1997. After 94 years of ever-increasing restrictive laws, handguns were banned. Each restrictive gun law resulted in an increase of crime, culminating in massive increases of over 300% in violent crime.
The crime rate in England now exceeds that of the U.S. in every category except murder and rape. These two are expected to soon overtake the U.S. which, after removing restrictive gun laws, is enjoying the lowest crime rates in memory."
Here in crime-ridden South Africa we are in the same boat as England.
There are no success stories where gun control laws have reduced either crime or the supply of guns to criminals.
Aug 24th, 2006, 12:58 AM
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Gun crime here is incredibly minor. In fact if you take out the Trident crimes (mainly black on black and almost entirely drug related) it barely exists. Gun control works.
The reason that it looks like our crime rates are out of control is that we have changed the way we measure it. We used to rely on reported crime, which as I say above is a flawed measure, now we measure on the National Crime Survey - which includes unreported crimes. Needless to say there is a big difference between reported and experienced crime.
Here's the website if you're interested (it's not a lot of fun):
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html
Also factor in that this government of muppets and jocks keep creating new crimes to charge people with.
The reason that it looks like our crime rates are out of control is that we have changed the way we measure it. We used to rely on reported crime, which as I say above is a flawed measure, now we measure on the National Crime Survey - which includes unreported crimes. Needless to say there is a big difference between reported and experienced crime.
Here's the website if you're interested (it's not a lot of fun):
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html
Also factor in that this government of muppets and jocks keep creating new crimes to charge people with.
Aug 24th, 2006, 01:58 AM
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audere_est_facere -
thanks for web link to the Home Office Survey (heavens it would take 5 years to read!)
It pains me to read articles such as the one in our newspaper & the article submitted by Kids ToLondon because going on an overseas holiday to Britain(especially London) has always been our great escape of day in and day out crime all around us.
As I sit and type, all my doors are locked and windows set with an alarm.
Outside I have the perimeter alarm turned ON. This morning I watched my husband take his trusty Barretta with him to work as he does every morning of our lives. My son leaves on a business trip to Johannesburg today and will be armed with his Glok.
Sad sad sad. And sadder still to think they may be put in a situation where they have to shoot someone to protect their own lives.
Can you see why we love holidays abroad?
thanks for web link to the Home Office Survey (heavens it would take 5 years to read!)
It pains me to read articles such as the one in our newspaper & the article submitted by Kids ToLondon because going on an overseas holiday to Britain(especially London) has always been our great escape of day in and day out crime all around us.
As I sit and type, all my doors are locked and windows set with an alarm.
Outside I have the perimeter alarm turned ON. This morning I watched my husband take his trusty Barretta with him to work as he does every morning of our lives. My son leaves on a business trip to Johannesburg today and will be armed with his Glok.
Sad sad sad. And sadder still to think they may be put in a situation where they have to shoot someone to protect their own lives.
Can you see why we love holidays abroad?
Aug 24th, 2006, 02:08 AM
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I wouldn’t want to be too much of a Pollyanna. There certainly is crime in London but in the main it’s aquisitive crime, and generally non violent. If we changed our insane drug laws we would become a lot more crime free, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
There’s no shortage of violent crime too, but the people who get involved in this are not the tourist types, being mainly, young men in city centre pubs fighting each other.
Most British people have never seen a gun in the posession of anyone other than a governement employee and very few of us have ever held or fired a pistol.
There’s no shortage of violent crime too, but the people who get involved in this are not the tourist types, being mainly, young men in city centre pubs fighting each other.
Most British people have never seen a gun in the posession of anyone other than a governement employee and very few of us have ever held or fired a pistol.
Aug 24th, 2006, 02:59 AM
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I hope & pray most British people never get to se a firearm ever. Carrying a gun is not at all glamorous. On the contrary, it's an enormous resposibility and should be taken with the utmost seriousness.
Aug 24th, 2006, 03:32 AM
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Agree here. The main reason we are not armed is because we dont need to be. In America all people can have a gun and this means criminals and law abiding people alike. Thus .. the law abiding will be armed to protect againist the criminals who are also legally armed.
In Britain thank god it is illegal without a licence, which is only granted to those who "need" a gun, to own a fire arm. Now the only probelm with this is that the media pour out armed raids on the tv as glamourus exciting news worthy events. Thus the climate of fear continues. People will then seek to "protect" thenselves and the cycle will be complete.
Stop it before it begins. If I see anyone with a gun in my country the first place I go is the police. They can and will deal with it, no questions asked.
In Britain thank god it is illegal without a licence, which is only granted to those who "need" a gun, to own a fire arm. Now the only probelm with this is that the media pour out armed raids on the tv as glamourus exciting news worthy events. Thus the climate of fear continues. People will then seek to "protect" thenselves and the cycle will be complete.
Stop it before it begins. If I see anyone with a gun in my country the first place I go is the police. They can and will deal with it, no questions asked.
Aug 24th, 2006, 03:58 AM
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Criminals don't seem to have huge problems in the UK getting guns if they're determined to have one. We live in a supposedly safe area, yet both the local Co-op and Blockbuster video were robbed by men with guns in the past year.
Also, it's an exaggeration to suggest everybody in the U.S. has a gun or that everywhere you go, guns are around. In the neighborhood I grew up in, nobody had a gun except for hunting rifles and some Japanese WW II (non working) weapons the men had bought while stationed in Japan.
We never had any problem with violent crime despite living in cities like Philadelphia and New York. It wasn't until we moved to "safe" western Europe that someone tried to shoot my husband at point-blank range, that our car was broken into repeatedly and that I was mugged in the late afternoon.
Some places in London attract a fair share of pickpockets and petty thieves, like Oxford Street at its most crowded. And there have been some high profile violent crimes in wealthy Chelsea.
But generally, a traveler is safe in the UK. And safe in the U.S., too, for that matter. I would be more worried about crime in Naples, Italy, than I would in Naples, Florida.
Also, it's an exaggeration to suggest everybody in the U.S. has a gun or that everywhere you go, guns are around. In the neighborhood I grew up in, nobody had a gun except for hunting rifles and some Japanese WW II (non working) weapons the men had bought while stationed in Japan.
We never had any problem with violent crime despite living in cities like Philadelphia and New York. It wasn't until we moved to "safe" western Europe that someone tried to shoot my husband at point-blank range, that our car was broken into repeatedly and that I was mugged in the late afternoon.
Some places in London attract a fair share of pickpockets and petty thieves, like Oxford Street at its most crowded. And there have been some high profile violent crimes in wealthy Chelsea.
But generally, a traveler is safe in the UK. And safe in the U.S., too, for that matter. I would be more worried about crime in Naples, Italy, than I would in Naples, Florida.
Aug 24th, 2006, 04:03 AM
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However, if you do happen to travel to Olympia, WA, beware of the violent masked gangs there:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14486644/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14486644/
Aug 24th, 2006, 04:05 AM
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I am rarely worried by what is reported. Reports to me show that crime is a concern, i.e., it is not taken for granted as just being part of life, or concealed in order to deceive the public for whatever reason. In contrast, I never expect the governments of certain countries (the ones that would get written up in "The World's Most Dangerous Places"
to issue crime reports.
On a related note, when China had a SARS problem back in 2003, it kept mum on the subject until it was too late. I note that no visitor to the country was concerned about the silence, even though silence was deadly. In contrast, Canada diligently and honestly reported the extremely limited and minor SARS crisis it had (caused in part by China's negligence.) In a true case of no good deed goes unpunished, people stayed away in droves.
Funny how people react - it's almost as if people believe the crime and illness reports themselves are what is worrisome.
to issue crime reports. On a related note, when China had a SARS problem back in 2003, it kept mum on the subject until it was too late. I note that no visitor to the country was concerned about the silence, even though silence was deadly. In contrast, Canada diligently and honestly reported the extremely limited and minor SARS crisis it had (caused in part by China's negligence.) In a true case of no good deed goes unpunished, people stayed away in droves.
Funny how people react - it's almost as if people believe the crime and illness reports themselves are what is worrisome.
Aug 24th, 2006, 04:36 AM
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All I know that in this US tourist mecca of Orlando, population 215,000, we've had over 37 murders as of the first of August and the count is ongoing. And yes a few of them were tourists, one poor man was just asking for directions!
Aug 24th, 2006, 04:59 AM
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There are around 500 or so murders a year in the UK (it's not a direct comparison as there is a difference between murder and manslaughter - and the US methods of recording.). This figure is pretty static This total includes the 55 people killed in the bombings (although not the bombers). It also includes in previous years the victims of the Northern Irish war.
Our statistics for "gun crime" are also misleading as it includes any crime using replica guns (which are what most robberies are committed with - most shooting between young males are committed with Brococks)
Incidentally there were 69 gun related murders in the UK last year. Care to compare numbers?
Our statistics for "gun crime" are also misleading as it includes any crime using replica guns (which are what most robberies are committed with - most shooting between young males are committed with Brococks)
Incidentally there were 69 gun related murders in the UK last year. Care to compare numbers?
