violet

Millie: "it has to be someone trying to get us all riled up over his crazy plans..."<BR><BR>Er, why does it get you all so "riled up"? And why would you assume - not as a last resort, but immediately - that someone would make up something like this to upset anonymous people on an internet bulletin board? To me, that is a lot stranger than planning a trip to London and Paris for the weekend! <BR><BR>Personally, on a holiday weekend, I'd rather be tired and slightly grimy in London than clean and well-rested in Hoboken - but I can certainly accept that others have a different opinion without accusing them of lying or being crazy! Yeesh. Anyway, there are showers in Victoria Station.<BR><BR>Vadim - I think most of your questions have been answered somewhere in this gargantuan thread, but re the air conditioning: you don't necessarily need air conditioning in paris in early July, but you do need air circulation. A room on a higher floor where you can open a window and (if available) run a fan is just fine, but if you don't know the hotel you're staying at, don't count on the fan and remember that in a busy area, and especially in a less-expensive hotel, noise may prohibit leaving the windows open at night (I've had this issue around St. Germain). I'd opt for the airconditioning in Paris just to make sure of a decent night's sleep. If you're not particularly picky, you probably won't need it in London.

RelaxPeople

To XXX - <BR><BR>You're right - there are MANY high strung, high maintenance women on this board who spend a lot of time obsessing about what to wear and how to plug in their curling iron, and seemingly little learning some of the language or simply enjoying themselves - at least that's what is reflected in the posts. <BR><BR>Tom - I'm sorry to hear that your girlfriend would make you "pay for it" if you planned a trip that didn't suit her needs. Maybe you should find someone a bit more flexible - and fun. While this plan does sound like a bit much, some of the shrill responses, especially that from XXX, whose trip would be ruined if her boyfriend packed the wrong clothes, are simply sad.

Renee

I'm sorry that I have no recommendations, but I have to say that you are a truly wonderful husband to surprise your wife with a European trip. Its unfortunate that not all of us can afford to spend more time in Europe, and I say "Take it when you can get it". I would do your itinerary in a heartbeat. Have a great time, and forget the naysayers.

j

umm. i am interested in anyone who can answer the guy's actual question. That is (for those who have been backended by a perceivable busy schedule) is (and i'lll put this in my own words).... IOS THERE A BETTER HOTEL CHOICE FOR AROUND OR UNDER $90 (I assume that is $90 per room and not pp) DURING THAT TIME OF YEAR. <BR><BR>For myself I would be interested in an answer to that question but related to hotel stays in late september.<BR><BR>thankyou

Keith

Vadim - I don't doubt that you can do this, but the main concern has to be about getting to the hotel in Paris (there's another thread about French hotels not honouring bookings made by e-mail or internet where no deposit is paid - I'll top it for you if I can find it.)<BR><BR>You may (depending on the ticket you've booked) be able to switch the time of your Eurostar train. I would suggest staying the night of the 4th July in London, then getting an early train to Paris so you arrive about 11am. That gives you more time in London on the 4th, a place to dump your luggage (many stations don't have them because of security risks) and generally a chance to catch up with yourself!<BR><BR>On the way back, you will have to leave earlier than 4pm. It's a Sunday, so the train times will be somewhat different to normal if you are travelling by Tube - and if you're going by Heathrow Express then remember you have to get to Paddington.<BR><BR>To answer your questions:<BR><BR>1. Don't know.<BR><BR>2. I would get a cab. Gare du Nord is not in the best area of Paris, and the Metro might not be the best form of transport when you're half asleep.<BR><BR>3. You don't have time in London to "relax and absorb the atmosphere" if you really want to see things! Go on the London Eye (the giant wheel by the Thames - www.londoneye.co.uk,) walk up Whitehall to Trafalgar Square, head to Covent Garden.<BR><BR>4. Paris will be hot in July (as will London - hopefully) so you'll need A/C.<BR><BR>I'd really urge you to think again about your schedule, though.

Vadim

&gt;&gt;but I have to say that you are a truly wonderful husband to surprise your wife with a European trip. Its unfortunate that not all of us can afford to spend more time in Europe, and I say "Take it when you can get it". I would do your itinerary in a heartbeat. Have a great time, and forget the naysayers.&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>Thank you, Renee. If my wife divorces me after this trip, I would love to meet you <BR><BR>I finally made reservations at Louvre Forum. It is cheap: ~80E and Fodor says it is a real "find". It is in 1 ar. near Louvre.

jarhead

vadim,<BR><BR>that price...is it pp or per room. Also, would you be kind enough to either post your report here when you get back or email me with what you did (umm... the decent things that can be shared) and anyadvice for others (like me) who are thinking of doing a lot in a short time.<BR><BR>ta

Lois

I can't believe some of you people. Vadim did not ask for your opinion, and does not want your opinion, of his planned schedule. Why would you presume to criticize something that is none of your business? The fact that you would prefer a different pace is irrelevant here. (And calculating how many hours it could be between his showers!!! You remind me of my busybody old neighbor.)

Kudos

Way to go, Vadim. Hey, I might not do what you are doing, but I'm sure glad you are bending to the high maintenance ("what should I wear in Paris, to look like a local") crowd that tries to control this board. I really liked your comment about sleeping upon arrival. I've never understood that either. People arrive, take a nap, and wonder why their bodies aren't adjusting to the time change. Go figure? Anyway, a couple comments. We recently stayed in the 1st. A cab ride from near the Louvre to Gare du Nord was 10 Euros or less. Consider such a "splurge" at that time of night. As you may recall, Gare du Nord is huge, but the Eurostar arrives very close to the taxi line, and quite a ways from the metro. You will be pooped at 23:30, so really consider the cab for that purpose. Couple other comments. The baggage storage in Waterloo is like 4 or six pounds PER BAG. It is outrageous. We originally planned to drop our bags and tour the city (kind of like you) before heading out. Instead, we took our bags on a nice scenic (and informative) cab ride for less, and the continued on our journey a little earlier than we planned. Just a thought.

Kudos

Couple other comments: Make sure you pack your wife's passport! I don't recall if you will be using an ATM card, but changing money at the booths in Waterloo and Gare du Nord is like voluntary robbery. About sightseeing. you said you'd been to both places before. So had we, so on a recent streamlined visit, we spent time walking around the Palais Royal, Tuileries (sp?), to the Isle (to revisit the Notre Dame and St. Chappel), with lunch in the Latin Quartier. We did a night time (non-dinner cruise), which we hadn't done before (at night) and enjoyed it.

NN-NYC

Vadim: Bon Chance! Please ask your wife to write a complete "review" of the trip's logistics upon your return. America wants to know. In Paris, I would spend time up and around Sacre Coeur just walking around and site seeing--it's artsy and has lots of little inexpensive shops/passages. Also take the tour boats along the Seine at night, when there are less kids/groups aboard. For a delicious meal (if you eat meat) go for an early or very late dinner to one of the two "Entrecote" bistros in Paris. They only serve one dish and it's great (steak with a special sauce and fries). With wine the bill will be around $50. Stay away from the large museums--instead take a day excursion to the Bois de Bologne where you can picnic, people watch, and nap a bit (take a blanket from the hotel). Forget Versailles, it is crowded, dirty, and in disrepair--I was just there. Stock up on bottled water and snacks at a neighborhood grocery store--they are a rip off in and around tourist sites and hotels. If you absolutely have to go to the Louvre, arrive at 8 am and get in line for 9am opening. Know which wing you want to visit and go straight there. By 10 am you can enjoy a cup of coffee at the sweet tiny cafe in the basement overlooking a courtyard and then get outta there. Don't miss Pere Lachaise cemetary--and lay a stone on Jim Morrisson's headstone for me. Have a great time.

Olga

Vadim:<BR>Does this hotel, 'Louvre Forum', has A/C? I go Paris the same time and looking for right place to stay.thanks for respond.<BR><BR>

Vadim

Thanks for the advices. I do not see an alternative to leaving baggage at Waterloo, so I'just have to pay whatever they ask. IAC, we would likely have just one bag and no taxi ride will be less than 6 pounds anyway .<BR><BR>I don't think the hotel has AC but I am not sure. The price ~80 is per room.<BR>you can look at it at: http://www.hotellouvreforum.com or search for comments at this site (in hotels section). I will write more when I come back.<BR>

marciab

<BR>Vadim, have a great time on your trip. I bet we all wish we had your energy and stamina. Please do come back afterward and tell us all about it.

Al Godon

Only a nitwit or a masochist would plan a trip like that. Those of you who support it obviously have not tried a similar trip, particularly when an unsuspecting victim is being drug along.<BR><BR>It sounds like one of those trips planned by someone who measures success by miles traveled and cities visited.<BR>The content be darned, its the frequency that counts. <BR><BR>It reminds me of the story about the 1 hour visit to the Grand Canyon. The father is ordering everyone back in the car and says, "You can look at the pictures when we get home."<BR>

XXX

Yes, do write more when you return. Many of us will want to know if you are still married. This has nothing to do with stamina, it's stupidity that is paramount here. Sounds like a fun trip to me, non-stop, no sleep, possibly hauling luggage around London, a midnite arrival in Paris, and a non-Air Conditioned hotel to look forward to. What more could a girl ask for? For those who think it sounds romantic, think again. It's just plain tiring. This guy gave no thought to jetlag apparently either.

xxx

I am quite sure Vadim will post a very rosy post-trip report. I personally will not believe a word of it.

Violet

Awwwww, fergawdsake. I posted 2 days ago asking why all you naysayers object to Vadim's agenda. So far, I haven't seen one sensible response - just more idiotic "Ooh! (*shiver*): It's bad, it's wrong, it's not normal...your wife will hate it, she'll divorce you, oooh!" Well, excuse me, but you people who have posted such things sound like idiots. I've flown from San Francisco to Berlin via London in a day, and believe me, I had fun in London and arrived in Berlin smelling perfectly fine, by all accounts. You just have to be a litle bit tolerant/creative! (As I said, there ARE showers in Victoria Station, and reputedly nice ones too - if y'all don't know anyone in London who'll lend you their facilities.) <BR><BR>Really, this is the most AMAZING board !!! Honestly, though - those of you who object to Vadim's London/Paris plans - instead of posting knee-jerk, "culturally"-specific assumptions, PLEASE post back an intelligent answer to my question. I really want to see a sensible counterargument! You can't ALL be so stupid, can you ?

xxx

Violet: What are you reading (?) -- Many people have posted "sensible responses". Everyone has give Vadim very good advice. <BR><BR>And if you think taking a shower with the homeless in Victoria station is a good start to a romantic weekend you are even crazier than poor Vadim.

Vadim

I am tired of replying to messages from people who only want a good bed and shower from life. For the last time I will try to explain, even though a Russian proverb "it is worthless to show jewels to pigs" comes to mind. This will be my last message about the issue. Naturally, I will still continue replying to other constructive thoughts.<BR>So:<BR> What would you do? Go from airport to your hotel, sleep for a few hours, take a shower, walk around in the evening, back to hotel by 11pm, trying to put yourself to sleep until 4am, had a headache in the next morning? Sorry, it sounds like nonsense to me and in the last 10 years I traveled nearly all European countries always coming from the USA. Just 2 years ago we went on a car trip: Munich-Strasbourg-Vienna-Prague-Budapest-Graz-Venic-Genova-Nice-Locarno-Munich. It took us 17 days and niether of us felt that we spent less time than we should have in any of these cities (except Prague which, IMO is worth 2 weeks alone). BTW, we only had a hotel reservation for Munich and only because I know an excellent hotel there. May be, if I have time I will write a trip report here. Back to this trip, just to show you that it is not stupidity but careful planning:<BR><BR>1. Jet lag. You are forgetting one thing: most of you, american travelers are used to leave around 7 pm when you don't want to sleep yet and arrive to Europe around 6-7 am when you really want to sleep. My plane leaves at 11:10 pm and arrives to London at 10:50 am, so it will be a night time in the plane and we will get a good sleep. We never have problems to sleep on the plane. Ear plugs (really make a difference), and Tylenol PM help a lot. When we arrive it will be 6 am US time so no jet lag here at all.<BR><BR>2. Shower. Sorry, perhaps I am not as clean-minded as you are but I don't feel any need for shower right after sitting in a chair for several hours. Same for my wife. IMO, one before trip and one before going to bed will be sufficient.<BR><BR>3. Luggage. I called Waterloo station and they do have "leave luggage office".<BR>So no problems here at all.<BR><BR>4. Train. Rather than extra hardship I view it as a place to have dinner and to rest. We would spend same time sitting in a restaurant anyway.<BR><BR>5. Arriving in Paris around midnight. So what? I have decided to take a cab after all and it is a short ride to the hotel. We rarely go to bed before midnight anyway.<BR><BR>6. Hotel. Here I have to admit that I don't know much about this hotel and its low price is suspicious. I just decided to trust Fodors high recommendation.<BR><BR>7. No A/C (possibly). The forecast is for moderate temperatures so unless something changes we will not need it at all. Besides, as you can guess from my name, we are from the USSR and lived most of our lives without one, and it gets hotter in the USSR than in Paris.<BR><BR>8. Flight back. Leaving 6:30pm, arriving 9:30 pm. What time could be more comfortable than this?<BR><BR>So, as you see, it is not "running non-stop" but rather good sleep, easy 6-7 hours in London, 2 full realxing days in Paris, another 5-6 hours in London, comfortable flight back, arriving at home around 11 pm on Sunday.<BR>The only bad thing is going to work on Monday.<BR><BR>BTW, I am thinking of going to Moulin Rouge (mostly to add romance). Is it worth it? Is it worth to pay extra money for the first show with dinner?<BR>Anyone?