newcomer

Hi! I've gotten lots of information from everyone - in fact, most of my trip questions have been answered just by reading trip reports! I can't tell you how much I have appreciated all the posts. I just have one question: We would like to go to Obidos by bus on Mon., Oct 24, but my computer won't accept the update that I need to download the bus schedule info. Can anyone access it and tell me the to/from times? We fly home the next day,
so it has to be a day trip. Thanks. I've also been following all the LDC posts, but it looks like the nights we'll actually be in Lisbon (Oct18,Oct.20,Oct.21) everyone will be elsewhere - Bummer!

Sher

I took a stab at looking up the information and as far as I can see a bus leaves from Lisboa (C Grande) at the following time daily:
8:15, 9:30, 12:00, 13:15, 15:45, 18:15>

Return times are as follows:
7:05, 7:55, 8:40, 14;55, 16:10, 18:00.

But the Rede site is in Portugese and I couldn't tell if you need to transfer.

Hope this helps.

newcomer

Thanks, Sher, that info. helps a lot. I don't quite have the hang of posting yet, and I was afraid my question would go unanswered since it ended up in the Europe forum instead of Portugal. I've used a lot of the material from your communications with Matt and Lobo to plan our trip. We're going to start our sojourn in Lisbon with that walking tour you uncovered! I am getting SO excited to leave!

Sher

Newcomer. There actually is not a Portugal Forum. All of these questions on the European countries are listed under Europe in the menu.

The different country pull down list allows for an easier search (because Portugal is in the body of the post).

We will actually be in Lisbon on October 24th. It is a shame that you are leaving the next day as you could join a Lisbon Dining Club meeting otherwise.

Although this is our second time in Lisbon we are still planning on the walking tour. It is reasonable and I really want to get my head around the layout of Lisbon.

Have you chosen a hotel yet?

Bringing this to the top again may catch the attention of some other poster, one of those that have just returned.

Have a great trip.

newcomer

Thanks, Sher, I am getting the hang of this now. Mostly I was just reading (actually felt like a bit of an eavesdropper because you all seem to to be such good friends through your posts...), but now I am starting to post! When I first read you would be in Lisbon in October, I thought "great -it might be at the same time", but I see your schedule doesn't mesh with ours. I really would have enjoyed a session with the LDC.... (We fly in on the 10th, but pick up a rental car at the airport and spend that night in Evora (and doing the morning walking tour there), then 2 nights on the Algarve, then 4 nights in Madeira, then back to Lisbon with day trips to Cascais, Sintra & Obidos).
Our Lisbon hotel may be a mistake, but when I planned out our schedule (and saw, in horror, the value of the dollar vs. the euro), I thought I would try Priceline first to maybe get someplace nice. Well, the Marriott accepted my opening bid of $64, and I was thrilled (as was my husband at the thought of a comfortable bed) until the map I sent away for arrived, and I saw just how "out of the loop" it was. The metro is a 10 minute walk and people say there is a bus right outside the hotel, so I guess we'll be okay (we have to be - Priceline is prepaid!). We never spend much time in the hotel anyway, but in other cities we've always stayed in the old town area for the atmosphere. At least for our time in Madeira, having learned my lesson, I picked a hotel right in the center of old town, not in "hotel row".

Sher

You can have lots of fun reading here.

The Marriott gets pretty good reviews on Trip Advisor. People say to take them with a grain of salt, but it is a good starting point. It is a little out of the loop, but you can use the bus to get to the center of things and since taxi fares are so reasonable, you can get back by taxi if it is late.

I am still surprised that Lisbon is one of those places that has very reasonable hotel rooms.

We really like the Rough Guides for good information with lots of detail. Also, we have eaten in some of the restaurants listed in the book and found them to be good value.

Mostly when offered I ate half portion meals. I am a very good eater and I found them to be more than adequate.

Have a wonderful trip.

lobo_mau

Newcomer, don't be shy. You are already family

newcomer

Lobo, you are too kind! I know we will love Portugal; as others have said, you (and Matt as well) REALLY would make wonderful good will ambassadors for your country. I know we won't be in Lisbon for any of the LDC meetings, but perhaps we could at least meet for drinks on Oct.18 (or 20 or 21, if you're not at Sher's, or even 22).

Sher, I mispoke ("miswrote"?) - we go to Obidos Mon. the 23rd, and fly out 7 a.m. on the 24th, or we would definitely have tried to make the LDC. Thanks for the recommendations - and I like that idea of half portions (I can try more new things that way, though I'm not as adventurous an eater as some). Actually, I've been jotting down names of restaurants as I've been reading all of these posts; of course, finding them is another story... Still, it's always fun to "discover" a new place while wandering around lost.

Oh, two more questions... Lobo, do you know if the Elevador da Gloria will be open in October and if the Sao Roque Church will be open? I read something about construction and/or renovation at both sites. Obrigada (we've started listening to those language tapes...).

Sher

newcomer. Good luck on the language tapes.
Unfortunately, I was a total dud!
It is just that the pronunciation and spelling are sometimes so different, that I have a difficult time.
Oh well, we bought ANOTHER translation book. I swear, I could open a whole library/language school.

lreynold1

Hi, newcomer,

Just to ease your mind a bit on the Marriott. When I go to Lisbon, it's usually connected with doing some teaching at the Catolica university, which is right across the street from the Marriott. So that's where I always stay. When you walk in the door you enter that "could be anywhere in the world" place, but here's the good news. The rooms and bed are very comfortable. The breakfast buffet is huge and has a very good selection of fruit, cheese, eggs, as well as a bazillion pastries and breads (coffee is mediocre). There is a small exercise room but it has two decent elliptical trainers, a bike or two, and treadmills. It also has some small weight machines.

There are two metro stops, both about the same distance from the hotel (and on two different lines), and 10 minutes is really the most it would take you. 5-7 minutes is more like it, I think. Both walks are perfectly safe for late at night as well.

I have a small file on my computer at work that I've made up for colleagues of mine who also stay there, describing what's in the neighborhood in each direction, which I can post if anyone is interested.

newcomer

lreynold, you have eased my mind on the Marriott. A 5-7 minute walk is nothing compared to the (seemingly)20 miles a day we will walk while sightseeing! I would love to read your post on the surrounding area; we probably will grab pastries (I've been drooling over thoughts of those)and coffee at a neighborhood spot on our way to the metro. I will really enjoy sleeping in those nice beds, but I don't want to waste any precious vacation time hanging out in a bland hotel!
Sher, I know what you mean about phrase books! I guess it's more a way of immersing yourself in a country than it is actually expecting to carry on real conversations...on my part, anyway. I do want to learn the important basics ( please, thank you, good day, how much does it cost?, the all important "where is the bathroom?",wine, beer, etc.). I am getting a good handle on those so far, and I always feel so proud of myself if I can understand even a word or two of an actual conversation.

Sher

I always tell everyone that after working very hard trying to learn Portuguese, we learned how to say:
1. We are lost.
2. Thank you.

So you see, anything you accomplish has to be better than that.

Although there are many good pastry shops in Lisbon, try to stop in Belem at the Antiga Confeitaria de Belem and have a pastel de nata....warm from the oven. No need for half portions there.

mari5

You'll be fine at the Marriott...though it is away from the center of town, it is "up the hill" but not in a seedy area at all. There are always Taxi's available, and I understand the hotel is very lovely and quite comfortable. Our friends were "assigned" there for 3 days following a cruise from Galveston to Lisbon (Royale Caribbean) and were upgraded to an executive room...(buffet happy hour etc). As far as "stepping out of the hotel and walking around the historic part of Lisbon,,,you won't~~~~~ but you WILL be comfortable.
We (husband and 3 children) lived in Lisbon for two years in the late 70's and it is a wonderful place...full of interesting things to see and do and eat and experience !&gt
Obidos by bus will be a lovely day trip...OR you could rent a car for a day or so to see the countryside. Driving is easy in Portugal. (however it doesn't sound like you want to do that).

newcomer

I'll put Antiga Confeitaria de Belem on my list (I already have Casa Pasteis de Belem). After all, there's no such thing as too many pastries!

Mari, thanks for the reassurance regarding the Marriott; I'm sure we'll be happy there - I'm especially looking forward to the old town sights, though. Actually, we will be renting a car at the airport when we arrive to go to Evora and the Algarve. Obidos will be at the end of our trip, the day before we fly home (scheduled then since it's a Monday and most Lisbon sights are closed), so I thought it would be nice to relax and to leave the driving to someone else.

lobo_mau

I have bad and good news.
The sad news is that Antiga Confeitaria de Belem and Casa Pasteis de Belem are the same thing.
The good news is that you are allowed to eat as much pastries as you like

lobo_mau

I don't share an opinion expressed here that the area is perfectly safe for ladies alone, after is gets dark. I think a taxi is very advisable at night.
From the 2 metro stations in the vicinity the most convenient is Praça de Espanha, turning right when leaving the hotel, in the opposite direction of Catholic University. This walk follows the walls of US embassy. Since the 09/11 the area is under surveillance by Portuguese Police and the area is considered safe.

cchri24311

This is for Lobo,
I am trying to figure out where
Rocha Conde de'o'bidos is on a city map of Lisbon - I am hooking up with my folks in Oct - they stay at a marina and
this was the info I was given - any help would be so appreciated - and NEWCOMER- HAVE A GREAT TIME!

lobo_mau

It's in the river front. Nearby the North end of 25th April bridge. Check the point where 24 Julho Av meets the India Av. It's a walking distance of a bar row called Docas

lreynold1

I'm the one who made the comment about the safety of walking at night between the Marriott and either the Laranjeiras or Cidade Universitaria metro stops. I know people have different comfort levels about walking around at night and certainly it would be rash to hold my experience out as proof of safety, when of course we are never completely safe.

I can only say that over the course of a year (2004-05), I frequently made that walk alone at night and never felt uncomfortable. I bet that some of my male Portuguese colleagues would echo lobo's concern, so I'm not suggesting he's wrong, just that it just depends on your comfort level.

lreynold1

For newcomer: here are my notes on the area around the Marriott. I give them to colleagues of mine who teach two week courses at the Catolica and who are interested in learning more about the neighborhood. If you're just at the Marriott for a few days, this may be way too much information. I hope the instructions/directions aren't too confusing, and I'm happy to clarify anything that doesn't make sense.

Marriott neighborhood. Well, it hasn't gracefully experienced the transition from old to new. There are several major busy roads (some elevated) that criss-cross the area, and some abandoned/derelict buildings in close proximity. But commerce and services are nearby. To get to the closest neighborhood, go out of the hotel door and turn left down the little hill along the Marriott’s driveway. Then turn left again when you hit the busy street. You will go over an overpass. Shortly after the overpass, there is a fruit store on the right that has produce and some more general foodstuffs, including some decent basic wine. If you are interested in observing the built environment, directly behind that little store, you will come into what’s left of the old neighborhood of Palma, there's a little square, a number of low houses, a few restaurants with nary a tourist in sight -- an example of what came before all these crisscrossing four lane roads.

Back on the street with the fruit store on your right, continue straight ahead and you'll find a bread store, a couple of cafes, etc. If you continue down the hill (you will be on the Rua das Laranjeiras), to the end of the street, you will hit the Estrada das Laranjeiras, a relatively busy city street. To the right is a fair number of commercial operations. Soon after you turn right onto the Estrada das Laranjeiras from the Rua das Laranjeiras, the Estrada das Laranjeiras turns into Estrada de Luz.

To find a decent sized grocery store, when you get down the hill to the Estrada das Laranjeiras, turn right and keep going. You will go under another overpass, and a grocery store named Pingo Doce is on your right. It's not luxurious, but perfectly ample. It's also open Sundays, all day and into the evening.

To get to the Metro, coming down on Rua das Laranjeiras, turn right onto the Estrada das Laranjeiras and try to find room on the sidewalk. Most likely it will be occupied by cars. In any event, when you come to the first left hand turn, take it (you’ll be going towards some highrise apt. buildings) and then a quick right onto a sidewalk that goes into the Metro entrance. (There is a hard-to-see pole with a red M sitting on top to designate the entrance – many people miss it because it's hidden behind some buildings). The Metro is quick, safe, and cheap to get to downtown. A 10 ride ticket costs about 6 1/2 euros, and multiple people can use it at the same time, so long as each person swipes it on entering and on leaving the Metro. There are ticket machines that take 5 and 10 euro bills (though they say they take 20s, I've never found one to accept a 20). You need the basic Zone 1 ticket for any destinations inside Lisbon.

Restaurants Near the Católica
Though most of the good restaurants are a cab or metro ride away, you can find places to eat in proximity to the Marriott. In three directions:

1. On the way to the Metro, you will pass several cafes, restaurantes, nothing that is spectacular by any means, though.

2. In the direction that I can best describe as behind the Católica, you will find the only "upscale" restaurant in walking distance from the hotel. It's an uninspiring but short walk past some nondescript apt. complexes. There are several cafe-bars in this area and a good fruit store, too. But the restaurant is worth a short walk, especially if you are not interested in going downtown or to the strip near the Metro. The food is good, nice decor, good wine, linen tablecloths and napkins. Go out of the hotel in the direction of the Católica. When you cross the street, instead of going in to the campus, turn right and go around the perimeter of the Católica (the campus will be on your left as you walk around it). You will be on Avda. Combatentes. At the intersection with Avda. Luisiadas, keep going straight. As of March, 2006, there is a huge red Vodaphone advertisement wrapped around an empty lot on your left, and you can see the Total gas station up ahead on your right. When you are at the gas station, you'll see a choice of three streets, coming more or less into the point of a V. The one in the middle is the one you want (the one on the right continues past the gas station), it will take you through two traffic circles (name of the road goes from Rui Nogueira Simoes and turns into Antonio Albino Machado, but basically you are just going straight). When you get to the end of the road, there is some white flag pavilion thing ahead, you turn left and you are on the street Tomas da Fonseca. The restaurant is on this street on the left, at the bottom of an apartment building. Rua Tomas da Fonseca 26A, the name is Erva de Cheiro. We have had several nice meals there, grilled fish is very good, and they have daily specials that have been nice. It’s probably a 15 minute walk. This is more of a traditional, not “nouveau” Portuguese restaurant.

3. The other choice of restaurants within walking distance is the area near the Gulbenkian. But though it's a short walk, it is ugly. In fact, unless you like walking as much as I do, you probably will just hop into a cab for a 3 euro ride. To get there, you turn right going out of the hotel, and right again when you hit the street. You will be on the side of a 6 lane elevated road, lots of cars whizzing by, and if you're lucky you'll see a few police with machine guns patrolling on the street near the American Embassy. Just keep going straight, and you will come into the Praça da Espanha (there’s an Arc de Triomphe-like structure in a small green plaza surrounded by 15 lanes of traffic). You will see the Gulbenkian museum and foundation at about 11:00 as you enter the Praça. It’s a big low slung, modern building. But once you get to the Praça de Espanha, there are a couple of restaurants we like. The Gondola restaurant is right across the street from the Gulbenkian. It's in a pretty, old home, and has good food, nothing nouveau anything, just basic, good, fresh, Portuguese food. The menu changes daily, but the soups and fish are generally good, in our experience. The other restaurant we like near the Gulbenkian is A Policia (particularly loved for its no smoking room, the only restaurant we have found in Portugal with a no-smoking ROOM). You will also see, going up the hill with the Gulbenkian on your left, a big department store named the Corte Inglés. It is a Spanish department store, and has a food court in the basement with a very popular Spanish tapas place and an excellent supermarket.