Lisbon: Europe without the attitude or price-tag
Sep 12th, 2012, 10:43 AM
#23
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Interesting report, but I'm still curious about the "attitude", and the "price-Tag" comments in the title. You could clear up the latter by including costs of the dinners you enjoyed, so we can make our own comparisons with prices in other European countries.
Sep 12th, 2012, 10:53 AM
#25
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nukesafe, I am not interested with sparring with you over my choice of words.
This time, I did not keep every dinner receipt. But I posted the websites for the restaurants where you can find their menus and do the math yourself.
I quoted the price of our five-star hotel above. We ordinarily do not stay in such elegant hotels, believe me. Comparing that hotel price to ours in London or Paris, where we subsequently went, the price difference was obvious.
This time, I did not keep every dinner receipt. But I posted the websites for the restaurants where you can find their menus and do the math yourself.
I quoted the price of our five-star hotel above. We ordinarily do not stay in such elegant hotels, believe me. Comparing that hotel price to ours in London or Paris, where we subsequently went, the price difference was obvious.
Sep 12th, 2012, 12:12 PM
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PeaceOut:
We could travel together.
"We are ‘accidental tourists’, who enjoy simply wandering the interesting streets we come upon. We prefer to see the architecture and outdoor art, and mingle on the streets and in the shops to get a sense for the local culture. We don’t have a daily agenda, or a list of must-see sites/museums, or must-eat restaurants."
That is exactly how I roll, too, and wouldn't have it any other way.
We could travel together.
"We are ‘accidental tourists’, who enjoy simply wandering the interesting streets we come upon. We prefer to see the architecture and outdoor art, and mingle on the streets and in the shops to get a sense for the local culture. We don’t have a daily agenda, or a list of must-see sites/museums, or must-eat restaurants."
That is exactly how I roll, too, and wouldn't have it any other way.
Sep 12th, 2012, 01:21 PM
#28
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nukesafe,
I was recently in Lisbon and a typical full-meal bill was 30 euros for 2 people.
In my experience, that is double what I pay in Italy or England. Spain is a bit better compared to Portugal, but only if you stay out of the major tourist centers. In Portugal, you can go right to the heart of the most desirable areas and still get the price advantage.
That holds true for accommodations and transportation as well as restaurant meals. The 50 euros taxi ride in scenic Italy is a 5 euro taxi ride in Portugal. The 150 euro double room is 80 euros or less in Portugal.
But what really matters is the atmosphere, the beauty, the treasures, the feeling of Portugal. It is a unique desintation within Europe, and one with an incredible architectural talent, and talent for gardening. Both Porto and Lisbon are rich with rewards for people who love art, history and the treasures of European culture. On the cheap, with a great climate.
I was recently in Lisbon and a typical full-meal bill was 30 euros for 2 people.
In my experience, that is double what I pay in Italy or England. Spain is a bit better compared to Portugal, but only if you stay out of the major tourist centers. In Portugal, you can go right to the heart of the most desirable areas and still get the price advantage.
That holds true for accommodations and transportation as well as restaurant meals. The 50 euros taxi ride in scenic Italy is a 5 euro taxi ride in Portugal. The 150 euro double room is 80 euros or less in Portugal.
But what really matters is the atmosphere, the beauty, the treasures, the feeling of Portugal. It is a unique desintation within Europe, and one with an incredible architectural talent, and talent for gardening. Both Porto and Lisbon are rich with rewards for people who love art, history and the treasures of European culture. On the cheap, with a great climate.
Sep 12th, 2012, 01:35 PM
#29
Peace_Out - so glad you enjoyed Lisbon, one of my favorite cities.
vespacurves - did you really mean that a full meal in Italy and England is 15 euros for two?
One of my favorite restaurants in Lisbon is the Bom Jardin, where delicious chicken plus fries and salad is maybe 10 euros. And I love grilled sardines! I stay at the Residencial Florescente, close to the Avenida Palace but much cheaper. But probably the best deal in town is the Solar do Vinho do Porto.
vespacurves - did you really mean that a full meal in Italy and England is 15 euros for two?
One of my favorite restaurants in Lisbon is the Bom Jardin, where delicious chicken plus fries and salad is maybe 10 euros. And I love grilled sardines! I stay at the Residencial Florescente, close to the Avenida Palace but much cheaper. But probably the best deal in town is the Solar do Vinho do Porto.
Sep 12th, 2012, 01:46 PM
#30
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Thusdaysd,
Thanks for catching my inverted typo!
To be clear:
In italy, I pay 60 euros for a full meal for 2 people. In Portugal, I paid 30 for 2 people -- and Bom Jardin is indeed a marvelous experience. However, I found many delicious, inexpensive meals in Lisbon for comparable prices, and I wasn't following guidebooks. Good food is plentiful.
Thanks for catching my inverted typo!
To be clear:
In italy, I pay 60 euros for a full meal for 2 people. In Portugal, I paid 30 for 2 people -- and Bom Jardin is indeed a marvelous experience. However, I found many delicious, inexpensive meals in Lisbon for comparable prices, and I wasn't following guidebooks. Good food is plentiful.
Sep 12th, 2012, 02:44 PM
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PeaceOut - loved your review
We are planning on a trip to Lisbon next year - looking at the Hotel Avenida Palace as well.
Could you confirm that your room at the hotel did not have any odours of smoke?
We have a smoke allergy and have found over time that some of the older hotels still have that
stale cigarette/cigar smell.
Also, did you find the beds comfortable - no feather pillows?
Thanks again for your help
Patiolaterns
We are planning on a trip to Lisbon next year - looking at the Hotel Avenida Palace as well.
Could you confirm that your room at the hotel did not have any odours of smoke?
We have a smoke allergy and have found over time that some of the older hotels still have that
stale cigarette/cigar smell.
Also, did you find the beds comfortable - no feather pillows?
Thanks again for your help
Patiolaterns
Sep 12th, 2012, 03:04 PM
#32
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No smell of smoke, or any musty old smells at all. I also hate smoke smell, and won't stay in a room if it is smoky.
PThe hotel is very clean. And the bed was comfortable. I imagine you can request feather pillows. I usually do that, but their pillows were 'squishy' enough for me. I have an old neck injury, and need to fold a pillow to better support my neck. Theirs worked fine. This hotel is so service-oriented, I think they would get you whatever you need. Just ask.
There was a nice complimentary sachet hanging in the room's closet, next to an umbrella. Also a room safe, and nice closet shelves to use instead of dresser drawers.
Another thing we liked about the Avenida Palace-- on the third floor landing, there is a pretty sitting area with a free 'lending library'. The hotel must collect lost books and puts them in this nice area for people to take. There were a few Fodor's and other brands of Portugal and Lisbon tour books. Great idea. We did not pack our thick Portugal book, so we borrowed theirs.
PThe hotel is very clean. And the bed was comfortable. I imagine you can request feather pillows. I usually do that, but their pillows were 'squishy' enough for me. I have an old neck injury, and need to fold a pillow to better support my neck. Theirs worked fine. This hotel is so service-oriented, I think they would get you whatever you need. Just ask.
There was a nice complimentary sachet hanging in the room's closet, next to an umbrella. Also a room safe, and nice closet shelves to use instead of dresser drawers.
Another thing we liked about the Avenida Palace-- on the third floor landing, there is a pretty sitting area with a free 'lending library'. The hotel must collect lost books and puts them in this nice area for people to take. There were a few Fodor's and other brands of Portugal and Lisbon tour books. Great idea. We did not pack our thick Portugal book, so we borrowed theirs.
Sep 12th, 2012, 05:50 PM
#33
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Thank you very much for the price comparisons, Vespacurves. That was exactly the kind of comparative information I was trying to get from the OP. Her title indicated that the "attitude" was lacking in Lisbon, and that the costs were lower. I just wanted to know what attitude, and how much lower.
I truly did not mean to offend her by appearing nosy --- just asking for some examples that I could use for deciding on which country to visit on a future trip. We spent a lot of time in Lisbon and the Algarve before the Euro raised its ugly head, and found the country charming.
I'm afraid it is academic for this trip. We will be in Paris for the first two weeks in October, so I suppose I'll just have to suffer both the inferior attitude and higher prices.
I truly did not mean to offend her by appearing nosy --- just asking for some examples that I could use for deciding on which country to visit on a future trip. We spent a lot of time in Lisbon and the Algarve before the Euro raised its ugly head, and found the country charming.
I'm afraid it is academic for this trip. We will be in Paris for the first two weeks in October, so I suppose I'll just have to suffer both the inferior attitude and higher prices.
Sep 12th, 2012, 06:42 PM
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We were in Lisbon/London/Paris for our recent trip. There is definitely an attitudinal shift between these cultures. I don't think that's an earth-shattering statement. I can be summed up by saying that in Portugal, clearly the people and the vendors were happy to have us there spending money in their city and their establishment. Other, more popular cities, sometimes resent the tourist hordes. In Portugal, we felt welcome everywhere.
Unless you don't know anything about hotel prices in Paris and London, the price I quote for the five-star Avenida Palace is self-explanatory:
"Our double room included breakfast, which was served in elegant style, featuring an extensive hot and cold buffet, replenished frequently in the most gorgeous dining room. I splurged on eggs benedict every morning, with fresh croissants. (Vacation is not the time to diet, I figure!). I also ate my fill of proscuitto every morning. It is a rare treat for me here in the States, but they served platters of it there everyday. Also scrambled eggs, fresh crepes put out every few minutes, plus fruit salads, juices, yoghurt, sliced beef and cheese-- you name it. It was heaven, to start out days with such a great breakfast which basically kept us full till evening. (Our rate at the Avenida Palace was just 143EU, including breakfast. I had reserved several weeks in advance, with no-penalty cancellation and payment upon departure.)
Unless you don't know anything about hotel prices in Paris and London, the price I quote for the five-star Avenida Palace is self-explanatory:
"Our double room included breakfast, which was served in elegant style, featuring an extensive hot and cold buffet, replenished frequently in the most gorgeous dining room. I splurged on eggs benedict every morning, with fresh croissants. (Vacation is not the time to diet, I figure!). I also ate my fill of proscuitto every morning. It is a rare treat for me here in the States, but they served platters of it there everyday. Also scrambled eggs, fresh crepes put out every few minutes, plus fruit salads, juices, yoghurt, sliced beef and cheese-- you name it. It was heaven, to start out days with such a great breakfast which basically kept us full till evening. (Our rate at the Avenida Palace was just 143EU, including breakfast. I had reserved several weeks in advance, with no-penalty cancellation and payment upon departure.)
moke smell
Sep 14th, 2012, 07:06 AM
#37
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Patiolaterns, the Avenida Palace is a classy and well-managed and maintained place. I read a review somewhere, which said it was 'past its prime', but I do not agree with that sentiment one single bit. It is a gorgeous historic hotel. I would grab the offer above to get an exclusive offer!
Sep 15th, 2012, 03:31 PM
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(Disclaimer: I'm a shameless booster of Portugal and especially Lisbon given my 40 year marriage to a Portuguese-Canadian!)
A thorough, thoughtful and balanced review and sets an excellent standard for all.
I've recently been puzzled to see previous comments (not this thread) about Lisbon's so-called seediness and safety issues when these are matters that affect every city in both Europe or North America. Yes, there is absolutely no city in the world like Paris but to make comparisons with historically poorer countries is both mis-leading and naive. Before anyone travels to Portugal (or Spain for that matter) an understanding of the political history would be very helpful. And I'm referring to the past 40 to 50 years which is the blink of an eye in historical terms. Successive military dictatorships and disastrous colonial wars all but destroyed Portugal economically and culturally. Since April 25 1974 (not that long ago) the country has progressed in leaps and bounds. The resilience of the people is astonishing.
So for those who may be hesitant about spending time in a fabulous capital: go and enjoy! And look up an article in the New York Times several years ago that had as it's headline "Lisbon Doesn't Know It's Cool".....another terrific review.
Thank you PeaceOut!
A thorough, thoughtful and balanced review and sets an excellent standard for all.
I've recently been puzzled to see previous comments (not this thread) about Lisbon's so-called seediness and safety issues when these are matters that affect every city in both Europe or North America. Yes, there is absolutely no city in the world like Paris but to make comparisons with historically poorer countries is both mis-leading and naive. Before anyone travels to Portugal (or Spain for that matter) an understanding of the political history would be very helpful. And I'm referring to the past 40 to 50 years which is the blink of an eye in historical terms. Successive military dictatorships and disastrous colonial wars all but destroyed Portugal economically and culturally. Since April 25 1974 (not that long ago) the country has progressed in leaps and bounds. The resilience of the people is astonishing.
So for those who may be hesitant about spending time in a fabulous capital: go and enjoy! And look up an article in the New York Times several years ago that had as it's headline "Lisbon Doesn't Know It's Cool".....another terrific review.
Thank you PeaceOut!
Sep 15th, 2012, 06:29 PM
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PeaceOut, thank you for your trip report. We're in midst of deciding where to go in April and I'm intrigued. Think I'm going to look into how do-able it would be to do a Portugal and Southern Spain trip, in the 11 or 12 days we'll have (not including two travel days).
We seem to be narrowing down to those areas (or possibly just one or the other rather than both), or some part of Southern Italy, tho' haven't completely ruled out Peru or Argentina instead.
It's a fun dilemna, and I love doing the reading up, but will soon have to start making some decisions.
We seem to be narrowing down to those areas (or possibly just one or the other rather than both), or some part of Southern Italy, tho' haven't completely ruled out Peru or Argentina instead.
It's a fun dilemna, and I love doing the reading up, but will soon have to start making some decisions.
