Line Cutting in Europe
Sep 6th, 2004, 08:18 AM
#44
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brilliant ! 'Rampant line cutting ... everywhere we went' Makes it sound like Europe is awash with crazed queue jumpers .... travelling in packs, no doubt frothing at the mouth !
My advice is - embrace the thing that causes you anger. Learn to love it.
God knows I used to get so worked up about all the loud americans i encountered during my travels .... i couldn't understand why people so badly dressed would draw attention to themselves by speaking so much louder than anyone around them. They seemed to be oblivious to others around them, forcing us to be privy to excrutiatingly ridiculous conversations inevitably starting with 'Well, in America we .... bla bla bla'. I really wanted to publicly berate them for their insensitivity.
But a wise man gave me the advice i mentioned earlier, and added that it's our differences, not our similarities that make the world so interesting. Learn to love our differences.
So now when i encounter american tourists being inconsiderately loud, or subjecting us to extreme-fashion , i do not grind my teeth or stare in disbelief .... i smile and say thank you america for entertaining the rest of us with your antics.
(I've applied the same level of tolerance to queue jumpers and i'm happy to report i no longer get upset to the point of writing letters to the editor about that either)
My advice is - embrace the thing that causes you anger. Learn to love it.
God knows I used to get so worked up about all the loud americans i encountered during my travels .... i couldn't understand why people so badly dressed would draw attention to themselves by speaking so much louder than anyone around them. They seemed to be oblivious to others around them, forcing us to be privy to excrutiatingly ridiculous conversations inevitably starting with 'Well, in America we .... bla bla bla'. I really wanted to publicly berate them for their insensitivity.
But a wise man gave me the advice i mentioned earlier, and added that it's our differences, not our similarities that make the world so interesting. Learn to love our differences.
So now when i encounter american tourists being inconsiderately loud, or subjecting us to extreme-fashion , i do not grind my teeth or stare in disbelief .... i smile and say thank you america for entertaining the rest of us with your antics.
(I've applied the same level of tolerance to queue jumpers and i'm happy to report i no longer get upset to the point of writing letters to the editor about that either)
Sep 6th, 2004, 09:17 AM
#45
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Yes, in Rome and all that but again, they don't consider it rude."
Just last week I twice stood in large lines/crowds to apply for and then pick up a visa, at the Indian consulate in Milan. Both times, Italians complained about how the Indians cut the line - a definite case of the pot calling the kettle black!
In northern Italy, at any rate, it's acceptable to tell someone off for line-cutting, or to insist that you were there first.
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan
http://www.straughan.com
Just last week I twice stood in large lines/crowds to apply for and then pick up a visa, at the Indian consulate in Milan. Both times, Italians complained about how the Indians cut the line - a definite case of the pot calling the kettle black!
In northern Italy, at any rate, it's acceptable to tell someone off for line-cutting, or to insist that you were there first.
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan
http://www.straughan.com
Sep 6th, 2004, 09:39 AM
#46
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've read this thread with some fascination because until our last European trip we had not encountered enough line cutting to notice.
However, arriving in Paris by train on the eve of a rail strike, we found a taxi queue snaking through the entire station. It was at least an hour wait to get to the taxi stand. Everyone was very patient and we struck up conversations with an American family and a French couple adjacent to us.
As we reached the front of the line, a well-dressed French woman (aren't they all?) in her '60's blatently attempted to cut into line just ahead of the French couple with whom we had been chatting. We were appalled, but didn't feel as foreigners that we should be the ones to confront her.
To our astonishment, no one else did! The French couple sort of shrugged their shoulders as if to say, "What can you do?" My husband finally indicated to her with gestures that she should be at the back of the line, but she pretended not to understand, or not to give a damn.
I couldn't help but think that anywhere in the US this woman would have been shamed into retreating to the back of the line. That seems to be the difference. Line cutting or queue jumping happens everywhere, but the tolerance for it certainly differs.
Then there is the total lack of a queue that we have for many years called "a Romanian line," based on our experience buying train tickets in Romania in 1974. We had never seen anything like it.
However, arriving in Paris by train on the eve of a rail strike, we found a taxi queue snaking through the entire station. It was at least an hour wait to get to the taxi stand. Everyone was very patient and we struck up conversations with an American family and a French couple adjacent to us.
As we reached the front of the line, a well-dressed French woman (aren't they all?) in her '60's blatently attempted to cut into line just ahead of the French couple with whom we had been chatting. We were appalled, but didn't feel as foreigners that we should be the ones to confront her.
To our astonishment, no one else did! The French couple sort of shrugged their shoulders as if to say, "What can you do?" My husband finally indicated to her with gestures that she should be at the back of the line, but she pretended not to understand, or not to give a damn.
I couldn't help but think that anywhere in the US this woman would have been shamed into retreating to the back of the line. That seems to be the difference. Line cutting or queue jumping happens everywhere, but the tolerance for it certainly differs.
Then there is the total lack of a queue that we have for many years called "a Romanian line," based on our experience buying train tickets in Romania in 1974. We had never seen anything like it.
Sep 6th, 2004, 10:03 AM
#47
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the mention of that SF Chronicle article by John Flinn.
<b>Comforts of home: rock 'n' roll, ethnic food, plumbing</b>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...RGJE8HDTT1.DTL
At the end of the article, Flinn writes...
"In Havana and throughout Cuba, they've developed a brilliant method of maintaining order without tedious line-standing. At a bus stop or ice cream stand, each newcomer who approaches a seemingly random crowd calls out, "El último?" Someone raises his hand, and the newcomer remembers: I'm after him. When the bus arrives or the ice cream vendor's ready to serve another customer, everybody knows who's next.
What makes this different than a Starbucks mob asking each other whether they're in line is that it's a well-honed system, and everybody follows it. I've watched it in action, and it works.
If we ever lift the embargo against Cuba, this is one custom we really ought to import."
<b>Comforts of home: rock 'n' roll, ethnic food, plumbing</b>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...RGJE8HDTT1.DTL
At the end of the article, Flinn writes...
"In Havana and throughout Cuba, they've developed a brilliant method of maintaining order without tedious line-standing. At a bus stop or ice cream stand, each newcomer who approaches a seemingly random crowd calls out, "El último?" Someone raises his hand, and the newcomer remembers: I'm after him. When the bus arrives or the ice cream vendor's ready to serve another customer, everybody knows who's next.
What makes this different than a Starbucks mob asking each other whether they're in line is that it's a well-honed system, and everybody follows it. I've watched it in action, and it works.
If we ever lift the embargo against Cuba, this is one custom we really ought to import."
Sep 6th, 2004, 10:06 AM
#48
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i>First of all, this talk about "rudeness" is irrelevant since Europeans do not view this [line-cutting] behavior as "rude" at all, which is why they do it.</i>
How can we be so sure they don't? Maybe they (or many of them) do view it as rude behavior but simply don't want any confrontation over it.
How can we be so sure they don't? Maybe they (or many of them) do view it as rude behavior but simply don't want any confrontation over it.
Sep 6th, 2004, 10:14 AM
#49
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As others have noted, no one protests in countries like Italy and France. It's as if you get what you deserve for being outsmarted. The few times I have protested, I have been in the wrong, and it was roundly pointed out (for instance, it seems to be okay to break into line at the train station if you had been there previously, discovered that either you or the ticket agent had made a mistake on your ticket and you have to go back to correct--or discuss your options EVEN further [why can't people decide before they go to the ticket agent what train or route they want to take?]). Another time, I mildly protested a women who seemed to have cut in line in a very small butcher's shop. The shop owners and customers politely pointed out to the straniera (that would be me) that the woman already had a place in line, had waited outside on bench because it was hot and she wasn't well, and that she had merely stepped into the shop when it was her turn.
This line cutting teaches you to be alert and get your elbows out. It also helps being taller than average. More than once I have just reached over the shoulder of the "pusher" to transact my business.
This line cutting teaches you to be alert and get your elbows out. It also helps being taller than average. More than once I have just reached over the shoulder of the "pusher" to transact my business.
Sep 6th, 2004, 10:17 AM
#50
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capo, I am with you. I suspect they do, they just will try to get away with it. It is their way of one upping, perhaps? Anyway, I have lived in Europe for 7 years (3 different places) and they are all the same, with the Hungarians being the worst. However, one hard look and an emphatic Nein or Nem and they give way sheepishly. I have only had to ram one old woman with my stroller. 
Cheers,
Jan
Cheers,
Jan
Sep 6th, 2004, 10:41 AM
#52
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, SloJan.
Hopscotch had written, "<i>American courtesy is interpreted as a weakness to be exploited by Europeans.</i>" and one could, I'd think, expand that to say "the courtesy of <i>anyone</i> can be intrepreted as a weakness by those who are not courteous or respectful of conventions."
Hanl asserts that "<i>The fact is, in France, it seems to be considered rude to confront someone behaving in a selfish or pushy manner.</i>" which, <i>if</i> true, is rather amazing. It's considered rude -- or equally rude -- to confront someone who's acting rude?
My most recent memory of line-cutters was when a former girlfriend & I were in line at the Naples train station to buy tickets for heading back to Rome. A group of four or five teenage boys were trying to cut in line from both sides and I just told her "keep your elbows about and be determined to hold your ground." She covered our left flank while I covered our right and the boys finally gave up and cut in somewhere behind us. Victory was sweet!
Hopscotch had written, "<i>American courtesy is interpreted as a weakness to be exploited by Europeans.</i>" and one could, I'd think, expand that to say "the courtesy of <i>anyone</i> can be intrepreted as a weakness by those who are not courteous or respectful of conventions."
Hanl asserts that "<i>The fact is, in France, it seems to be considered rude to confront someone behaving in a selfish or pushy manner.</i>" which, <i>if</i> true, is rather amazing. It's considered rude -- or equally rude -- to confront someone who's acting rude?
My most recent memory of line-cutters was when a former girlfriend & I were in line at the Naples train station to buy tickets for heading back to Rome. A group of four or five teenage boys were trying to cut in line from both sides and I just told her "keep your elbows about and be determined to hold your ground." She covered our left flank while I covered our right and the boys finally gave up and cut in somewhere behind us. Victory was sweet!
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:02 AM
#53
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,726
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"First of all, this talk about "rudeness" is irrelevant since Europeans do not view this [line-cutting] behavior as "rude" at all, which is why they do it."
Come now. How could Europeans or anyone not realize that line cutting is rude and shows a lack of respect for others?
But, of course, I suppose that if becoming a victim of a rude line cutter is the worst thing that happens to you, you've had a pretty good day.
Byrd
Come now. How could Europeans or anyone not realize that line cutting is rude and shows a lack of respect for others?
But, of course, I suppose that if becoming a victim of a rude line cutter is the worst thing that happens to you, you've had a pretty good day.
Byrd
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:52 AM
#54
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,719
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Hanl asserts that "The fact is, in France, it seems to be considered rude to confront someone behaving in a selfish or pushy manner." which, if true, is rather amazing. It's considered rude -- or equally rude -- to confront someone who's acting rude?"
Capo, that's the only explanation I can come up with for why people in France often act so outraged when you politely point out that they have jumped the queue, or that they've just whacked you with their large and heavy backpack, or that their dog is sitting on your luggage and perhaps they would be so kind as to remove it (all 3 situations have happened to me in the last 2 months, and each time I politely commented the response was sheer outrage, indignation and anger).
Capo, that's the only explanation I can come up with for why people in France often act so outraged when you politely point out that they have jumped the queue, or that they've just whacked you with their large and heavy backpack, or that their dog is sitting on your luggage and perhaps they would be so kind as to remove it (all 3 situations have happened to me in the last 2 months, and each time I politely commented the response was sheer outrage, indignation and anger).
Sep 6th, 2004, 12:06 PM
#56
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are rude people everywhere on this planet. How about the way some Americans stay in the passing lane on highways instead of passing and then returning to the slower lane.
Europeans seem to be much better at this than we are. So maybe things even out.
Europeans seem to be much better at this than we are. So maybe things even out.
Sep 6th, 2004, 12:18 PM
#57
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess I am lucky, but the only time I have experienced a real problem with line cutting was by an older British couple in the Rome FCO. When I got irritated and tried to hold my ground, they called me a "typical American". This really amused me! I'm more of a typical New Yorker (aren't we known for supposedly being pushy and rude? ) I stole a phrase from Mr T, and said, "This time, I'll let you live." while glaring at them. The other Brits were not amused by their behavior, however!
Sep 6th, 2004, 03:59 PM
#58
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leisa, loved your stereotypical comments about American tourists. Aside from shorts, Europeans now seem to dress very much like Americans, at least the ones I saw in Switzerland, France and the Netherlands (funny how Americans are supposedly such jokes but Europeans cannot buy into our culture fast enough). Also, the Americans I ran into were no louder than the Europeans I saw. The point about line cutting is not meant in any way to imply that Europeans are overall ruder than Americans, it is just one thing that really struck me (and apparently others). The great majority of people I met in Europe were very nice and courteous. However, line cutting is not like talking loud or dressing in a way that you do not like -- it is a rude and disrespectful practice. The line cutter is well aware that he or she is doing it and their attitude is that you do not matter.
Sep 6th, 2004, 04:37 PM
#59
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,000
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Demo, in general you are correct about Europeans using the passing lane for passing only. It is the law. The scofflaws are Dutch drivers towing a camper van (<i>caravan</i> to them). They love to cruise along two abreast with those things and block expressways in Germany and France. No head is harder than that of a Dutchman at the wheel.
sognatrice2, way to go! I might try that line in the future.
Sep 6th, 2004, 04:40 PM
#60
"This time I'll let you live" -- priceless!
Which brings to mind a little incident that took place in Capri this summer. We were first in line for the bus. The front part of the queue path extended out into the sun. We started the line under the covered part in the shade. People followed behind us. It was not a big line, about 5 people in all, and since this was the beginning of the bus ride, you knew we'd get on and get a seat. This guy shows up, and walks to the front of the line in the sun, seeing us standing there in the shade. I did all I could to hold my husband back, but as soon as that bus arrived, he got out of the line, ran to the front, and parked himself in front of this guy. I don't think it proved anything, but it made my husband feel better.
Which brings to mind a little incident that took place in Capri this summer. We were first in line for the bus. The front part of the queue path extended out into the sun. We started the line under the covered part in the shade. People followed behind us. It was not a big line, about 5 people in all, and since this was the beginning of the bus ride, you knew we'd get on and get a seat. This guy shows up, and walks to the front of the line in the sun, seeing us standing there in the shade. I did all I could to hold my husband back, but as soon as that bus arrived, he got out of the line, ran to the front, and parked himself in front of this guy. I don't think it proved anything, but it made my husband feel better.
