Last minute trip to Germany and Switzerland
Aug 21st, 2017, 11:27 PM
#21
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kja, I do not recall making any such agreement. Please help me to find it if I did make it. As I said above, if I had planned a trip to Laurerbrunnen unaware of the cliffs, I would be upset. So I do think it's worth noting -- in case others who have the same aesthetic can know what it's like.
I have actually seen it. From the train as it trundled down the valley. It did depress me so that I didn't even want to get off the train. I am not making my comments about Laurerbrunnen never having ser foot in the valley. I have never been to the end of the valley, that's true, but I have been in the town, at the station. Your comment that I've never been is not wholly accurate.
And to repeat. I think it's useful to let folks know what to expect. My impressions are not your impressions, and that's good. You've pointed out the limits of my impressions, and that's good.
And please note that I didn't advise the op to skip the town but only suggested further research.
s
I have actually seen it. From the train as it trundled down the valley. It did depress me so that I didn't even want to get off the train. I am not making my comments about Laurerbrunnen never having ser foot in the valley. I have never been to the end of the valley, that's true, but I have been in the town, at the station. Your comment that I've never been is not wholly accurate.
And to repeat. I think it's useful to let folks know what to expect. My impressions are not your impressions, and that's good. You've pointed out the limits of my impressions, and that's good.
And please note that I didn't advise the op to skip the town but only suggested further research.
s
Aug 22nd, 2017, 04:31 AM
#22
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That's right kja, I haven't gone beyond the train station in Lauterbrunnen (why would I?
Well if you never have seen that awesome view of canyon over which however the glacier-girdled Jungfrau Massif and Staubbach Falls falling thousands of feet and gone to the unique Trummelbach Falls... well you have blinders on that make you miss a different yes but dramatic in its own right scene.
Never got out of Lauterbrunnen train station... tis a pity - at least do so what's in your mind's eye is not something horribly different from what most think is really sweet.
Not saying L has best view but a different type of view - take a peek someday -you may be surprised.
If you would have seen it and dissed it is one thing but to diss without ever seeing... a bit myopic?
Well if you never have seen that awesome view of canyon over which however the glacier-girdled Jungfrau Massif and Staubbach Falls falling thousands of feet and gone to the unique Trummelbach Falls... well you have blinders on that make you miss a different yes but dramatic in its own right scene.
Never got out of Lauterbrunnen train station... tis a pity - at least do so what's in your mind's eye is not something horribly different from what most think is really sweet.
Not saying L has best view but a different type of view - take a peek someday -you may be surprised.
If you would have seen it and dissed it is one thing but to diss without ever seeing... a bit myopic?
Aug 22nd, 2017, 08:45 AM
#23
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swandav: Here is what is outside the Lauterbrunnen train station:
https://www.google.com/search?q=laut...w=1745&bih=864
pretty sweet uh?
https://www.google.com/search?q=laut...w=1745&bih=864
pretty sweet uh?
Aug 22nd, 2017, 05:26 PM
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Thanks kja, swandav2000 and Pal for the lively discussion on Lauterbrunnen. And thanks Pal for the gorgeous pictures of the Lauterbrunnen Valley.
How do ya'll feel about Grindelwald in comparison?
Regarding budget for lodging, I have not formulated that. We will need two rooms so it won't be 5 star for sure. An apartment would be fine too. Last year in Hamburg (a Fairmont) and Berlin (a Hilton) we paid roughly $200 per nt per room and in Munich had a lovely 2 br/2ba aparthotel just down the street from the Mandarin Oriental for $435 per night. I am hoping small towns and villages will be less expensive in general and especially in October. I prefer a quiet location as I am a light sleeper. I will get on booking.com again and see what I can learn. Fodors recommends Chalet Rosa, The Silberhorn and Staubbach in Lauterbrunnen. Silberhorn looks very nice on their website.
How do ya'll feel about Grindelwald in comparison?
Regarding budget for lodging, I have not formulated that. We will need two rooms so it won't be 5 star for sure. An apartment would be fine too. Last year in Hamburg (a Fairmont) and Berlin (a Hilton) we paid roughly $200 per nt per room and in Munich had a lovely 2 br/2ba aparthotel just down the street from the Mandarin Oriental for $435 per night. I am hoping small towns and villages will be less expensive in general and especially in October. I prefer a quiet location as I am a light sleeper. I will get on booking.com again and see what I can learn. Fodors recommends Chalet Rosa, The Silberhorn and Staubbach in Lauterbrunnen. Silberhorn looks very nice on their website.
Aug 22nd, 2017, 05:33 PM
#25
<<How do ya'll feel about Grindelwald in comparison?>.
Well, it's better than Interlaken, but...
I'd choose Lauterbrunnen, Wengen or Murren over Grindelwald in a NY minute. But, that's just me.
You can definitely find a good apartment deal in Switzerland that time of year. We usually pay about 70-90 CHF per night in the off season in Switzerland. It will take some work and research, but there are good deals to be had if you're willing to spend the time looking.
Well, it's better than Interlaken, but...
I'd choose Lauterbrunnen, Wengen or Murren over Grindelwald in a NY minute. But, that's just me.
You can definitely find a good apartment deal in Switzerland that time of year. We usually pay about 70-90 CHF per night in the off season in Switzerland. It will take some work and research, but there are good deals to be had if you're willing to spend the time looking.
Aug 22nd, 2017, 05:59 PM
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@ swandav: Mea culpa. I disagree with you, but you should, of course, feel free to state your opinions and I sincerely apologize for questioning your right to do so. I honestly thought we had come to an agreement before, but even if we did, upon reflection, I consider it irrelevant – your right to speak your mind wins out. And yes, that we share our differing impressions is definitely good.
... I appreciate it when you qualify your observations by noting the limits of your experience in Lauterbrunnen, as at least some of us who have ventured outside the train station have substantively different perspectives than you. Although it depends on the time of day, I never saw more than a very small part of the town in shade – and that bit of shade was, to me, very welcome on a hot day! What I saw was glorious sunny fields ariot with wildflowers, edged by waterfall-lined cliffs, topped by awesome snowcaps, and adorned with blue skies and fluffy clouds and – at times – paragliders. Awesome!
@ foolforfrance: I agree with Melnq – I thought Grindelwald a distant 4th behind Wengen, Lauterbrunnen, and Murren. JMO. And my apologies to you, too, for the drama.
... I appreciate it when you qualify your observations by noting the limits of your experience in Lauterbrunnen, as at least some of us who have ventured outside the train station have substantively different perspectives than you. Although it depends on the time of day, I never saw more than a very small part of the town in shade – and that bit of shade was, to me, very welcome on a hot day! What I saw was glorious sunny fields ariot with wildflowers, edged by waterfall-lined cliffs, topped by awesome snowcaps, and adorned with blue skies and fluffy clouds and – at times – paragliders. Awesome!
@ foolforfrance: I agree with Melnq – I thought Grindelwald a distant 4th behind Wengen, Lauterbrunnen, and Murren. JMO. And my apologies to you, too, for the drama.
Aug 22nd, 2017, 08:26 PM
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lol, Pal, no I don't think those images look sweet!! (And yes I have googled the town a lot to see if there were images that could pique my interest.) In those photos, the only thing I see is cliffs. Cliffs cliffs cliffs. It looks depressing and claustrophobic and confining to me. Those pictures show **exactly** what I expected to see when I saw the cliffs at the train station/tracks. You'll just have to take my word for this ... I do not want to see another narrow valley between high mountain cliffs. I would never (ever, ever) want to spend a vacation there.
foolforfrance -- thank you so much for your forbearance as we old Fodors cyber-friends go through yet another discussion. Ummm. As for your question... I guess you can guess that I'd rather stay in Grindelwald, lol. If you were going in the height of summer, I would argue against Grindelwald because of the many tour buses, but it should not be that bad in late Sep/ early Oct. But my favorite town is Wengen.
kja -- thank you for your understanding!! I will try to pull my personal feelings back to a more objective stance and will make it clear that my impression is limited. (But actually the images that Pal posted make my point -- those are exactly the views that I would want to avoid.) Maybe I ought to copy & save your description of the area and add it as the counterpoint, lol!
Thanks all for staying friendly during this disagreement!
s
foolforfrance -- thank you so much for your forbearance as we old Fodors cyber-friends go through yet another discussion. Ummm. As for your question... I guess you can guess that I'd rather stay in Grindelwald, lol. If you were going in the height of summer, I would argue against Grindelwald because of the many tour buses, but it should not be that bad in late Sep/ early Oct. But my favorite town is Wengen.
kja -- thank you for your understanding!! I will try to pull my personal feelings back to a more objective stance and will make it clear that my impression is limited. (But actually the images that Pal posted make my point -- those are exactly the views that I would want to avoid.) Maybe I ought to copy & save your description of the area and add it as the counterpoint, lol!
Thanks all for staying friendly during this disagreement!
s
Aug 23rd, 2017, 04:47 AM
#29
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sweandav - that you find Lauterbrunnen valley depressing is depressing - as most love it - but it's your subjective take - but I wish you would get out of train station and walk around a bit -it's not the narrow light-shielding canyon you imagine IMO -it's a different perspective for sure but still awesome to me.
Grindelwald would be my preferred base but most here - older folks like me- love the more isolated tranquil or whatever you call it - of a Wengen or Murren. Grindelwald is much more active - yes tour buses can penetrate the town and groups of hikers come and go but the views are just as scintillating to me as from any Jungfrau Region perch and much of the town is out of the brouhaha on the main access street and at night there is more than a bit of apres-hiking action.
Younger folk looking for night as well as day life will find Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen more to their tastes than more sedate (but not somnolent) Wengen or Murren as there are many folks that age staying in their hostels and campings and budget hotels.
Grindelwald would be my preferred base but most here - older folks like me- love the more isolated tranquil or whatever you call it - of a Wengen or Murren. Grindelwald is much more active - yes tour buses can penetrate the town and groups of hikers come and go but the views are just as scintillating to me as from any Jungfrau Region perch and much of the town is out of the brouhaha on the main access street and at night there is more than a bit of apres-hiking action.
Younger folk looking for night as well as day life will find Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen more to their tastes than more sedate (but not somnolent) Wengen or Murren as there are many folks that age staying in their hostels and campings and budget hotels.
Aug 25th, 2017, 11:31 AM
#30
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One other unique place to stay -much different than the other 4- is Gimmelwald- a tiny farming hamlet not far from Murren but seemingly totally isolated.
There is a youth hostel and local hotel and probably B&Bs - to really get away from it all...
https://www.google.com/search?q=gimm...w=1745&bih=864
If going to Murren take the cable down to Gimmelwald (or do an easy 2-mile or so downhill walk) and then hop back on the cable to Stechelberg in Lauterbrunnen Valley for post buses back to Lauterbrunnen or again a nice few-mile flat walk along a bubbling stream.
I did say in Gimmelwald one night and that was enough! But a great experience!
There is a youth hostel and local hotel and probably B&Bs - to really get away from it all...
https://www.google.com/search?q=gimm...w=1745&bih=864
If going to Murren take the cable down to Gimmelwald (or do an easy 2-mile or so downhill walk) and then hop back on the cable to Stechelberg in Lauterbrunnen Valley for post buses back to Lauterbrunnen or again a nice few-mile flat walk along a bubbling stream.
I did say in Gimmelwald one night and that was enough! But a great experience!
Aug 26th, 2017, 06:23 AM
#31
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Thanks for more insights on the possible choices for lodging in the Berner Oberland. I am considering Hotel Silberhorn in Lauterbrunnen for a hotel, but will explore apartment options too. I like it's location near the train station but off the main street. Kja, Hotel Staubbach looks nice, but I was not crazy about the bathroom setup with sink out in the open near the beds.
If it were not mid-October, I'd choose Wengen. But it seems prudent to stay at the lower elevation based on Pal's suggestion.
Thanks too Swandav for the Lake Geneva suggestions.
My DH and I are having some discord about where to lodge on Lake Geneva. Based on reading the Annhigs text string and some responses to my post, it seems Montreux or Vevey would be nice choices. But my DH thinks that is too far out for the Sunday morning train ride to the Geneva airport and we should spend our last night in Geneva. I really don't want another hotel change. Our flight is at 10:30a....need to arrive 2 hours ahead of time (is that enough time?) and the ride is 1hr 20 min. Thoughts from those who have done it? Is it easy for find our Delta terminal from the train station? I feel like it is a similar amount of time as when we went from Munich to the Munich airport last Sept for our departing flight around the same time, so I think it is just fine.
So here is the updated itinerary:
W 10/11 Travel day
Th 10/12 Arrive Frankfurt@8:50a. Travel to Mainz
F 10/13 Mainz
S 10/14 Mainz
S 10/15 Mainz
M 10/16 Mainz to Berner Oberland (BO)
T-10/17 BO
W-10/18 BO
Th10/19 BO to Montreux
Fr10/20 Montreux
Sa10/21 Montreux
Su10/22 Montreux to Geneva Dpt Delta @ 10:30
Sun 10/22 Dept Geneva 10:30a
If it were not mid-October, I'd choose Wengen. But it seems prudent to stay at the lower elevation based on Pal's suggestion.
Thanks too Swandav for the Lake Geneva suggestions.
My DH and I are having some discord about where to lodge on Lake Geneva. Based on reading the Annhigs text string and some responses to my post, it seems Montreux or Vevey would be nice choices. But my DH thinks that is too far out for the Sunday morning train ride to the Geneva airport and we should spend our last night in Geneva. I really don't want another hotel change. Our flight is at 10:30a....need to arrive 2 hours ahead of time (is that enough time?) and the ride is 1hr 20 min. Thoughts from those who have done it? Is it easy for find our Delta terminal from the train station? I feel like it is a similar amount of time as when we went from Munich to the Munich airport last Sept for our departing flight around the same time, so I think it is just fine.
So here is the updated itinerary:
W 10/11 Travel day
Th 10/12 Arrive Frankfurt@8:50a. Travel to Mainz
F 10/13 Mainz
S 10/14 Mainz
S 10/15 Mainz
M 10/16 Mainz to Berner Oberland (BO)
T-10/17 BO
W-10/18 BO
Th10/19 BO to Montreux
Fr10/20 Montreux
Sa10/21 Montreux
Su10/22 Montreux to Geneva Dpt Delta @ 10:30
Sun 10/22 Dept Geneva 10:30a
Aug 26th, 2017, 07:07 AM
#32
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Look at an 8-consecutive-day Swiss Pass
BO to Montreux be sure to take the Golden Pass scenic train route - much more scenic than slightly faster mainline route via Bern and Lausanne but oh so much more scenic. GP runs Interlaken-Ost to Montreux direct (one simple change of train due to track width differences - spiffy glass-domed panoramic cars!
BO to Montreux be sure to take the Golden Pass scenic train route - much more scenic than slightly faster mainline route via Bern and Lausanne but oh so much more scenic. GP runs Interlaken-Ost to Montreux direct (one simple change of train due to track width differences - spiffy glass-domed panoramic cars!
Aug 26th, 2017, 07:59 AM
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Aug 26th, 2017, 08:33 AM
#34
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I can understand wanting to be near the airport, but Swiss trains are so reliable that I'm not sure you need to worry about it, and it looks like there are several trains that would get you there in plenty of time (if you're willing to get up that early).
I had forgotten about the sink. ;-)
I had forgotten about the sink. ;-)
Aug 26th, 2017, 08:54 PM
#35
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Hi again foolforfrance,
Here are my recommendations for things to do around Montreux:
Montreux old town
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html
Lavaux
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html
Walks through the Lavaux vineyards
http://static.montreuxriviera.com/ra...679.1466572907
Promenade Fleuri
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html
Morges
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...rges_Vaud.html
Gruyeres
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR..._Fribourg.html
Lutry photos
https://swandav.shutterfly.com/632
Yes, do take the Golden Pass route from the Oberland to Lake Geneva; it is just gorgeous. You don't need to take the exact, marketed scenic train, just go on any train on that route (via Gstaad or via Zweisimmen). You don't need reservations. You may even want to stop enroute and make a quick detour to Gruyeres to see the cheese-making demonstration and to sample some double cream! You can send your luggage ahead of you using Express Luggage from SBB.
I also think it's pretty do-able to stay in Montreux or Vevey the night before a flight out of Geneva. The Geneva airport is awfully small, maybe 1/4 the size of the Munich airport. Here is a map:
https://www.gva.ch/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-60/
However, if you'd like to be just a bit closer, you could also stay your last night in Morges or in Nyon, both very beautiful towns on the lake.
Have fun!!
s
Here are my recommendations for things to do around Montreux:
Montreux old town
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html
Lavaux
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html
Walks through the Lavaux vineyards
http://static.montreuxriviera.com/ra...679.1466572907
Promenade Fleuri
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html
Morges
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...rges_Vaud.html
Gruyeres
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR..._Fribourg.html
Lutry photos
https://swandav.shutterfly.com/632
Yes, do take the Golden Pass route from the Oberland to Lake Geneva; it is just gorgeous. You don't need to take the exact, marketed scenic train, just go on any train on that route (via Gstaad or via Zweisimmen). You don't need reservations. You may even want to stop enroute and make a quick detour to Gruyeres to see the cheese-making demonstration and to sample some double cream! You can send your luggage ahead of you using Express Luggage from SBB.
I also think it's pretty do-able to stay in Montreux or Vevey the night before a flight out of Geneva. The Geneva airport is awfully small, maybe 1/4 the size of the Munich airport. Here is a map:
https://www.gva.ch/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-60/
However, if you'd like to be just a bit closer, you could also stay your last night in Morges or in Nyon, both very beautiful towns on the lake.
Have fun!!
s
Aug 27th, 2017, 09:26 AM
#36
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Thanks kja, I think my DH is going to consent to Montreux as long as we catch the train departing Montreux at 6:20 arr Geneva airport at 7:39.
Swandav2000-hoorah for your recs and seconding the Golden Pass route! Have not had time to research as I am preparing for my trip to NYC and my first time to the US Open Tennis tournament...so packing for that comes first. Hopefully later today I can explore a bit.
Pal-so you are 2 for 3 (K-D boats in Mainz, Golden Pass Railway) I will probably go with 8 day Swiss pass...so then you will be 3 for 3. I just read Mrs Annhig's post regarding her choice of the Swiss Rail Pass. The ease of travel is enticing. I have not done my own research on the rail yet, so forgive these questions. Should I buy in US? When I buy my ticket to the Berner Oberland from Mainz, will my German portion be figured just to the border and my Swiss Railpass picks up there?
Swandav2000-hoorah for your recs and seconding the Golden Pass route! Have not had time to research as I am preparing for my trip to NYC and my first time to the US Open Tennis tournament...so packing for that comes first. Hopefully later today I can explore a bit.
Pal-so you are 2 for 3 (K-D boats in Mainz, Golden Pass Railway) I will probably go with 8 day Swiss pass...so then you will be 3 for 3. I just read Mrs Annhig's post regarding her choice of the Swiss Rail Pass. The ease of travel is enticing. I have not done my own research on the rail yet, so forgive these questions. Should I buy in US? When I buy my ticket to the Berner Oberland from Mainz, will my German portion be figured just to the border and my Swiss Railpass picks up there?
Aug 27th, 2017, 04:34 PM
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You can easily buy passes in Switzerland but do compare prices between U.S. prices and Switzerland prices - I've been comparing for several years and more often than not U.S. prices for exact same pass has been less - sometimes significantly so. Not always of course - depends on currency fluctuations but has for some reason often been cheaper here than there. And to buy in Europe for you would mean ordering online in advance with possible mailing fees (not sure but passes are I believe pretty much paper products that have to be sent to you - always has been but if not now someone please correct me) or buying one at your first Swiss station.
Anyway check here and there for prices. For U.S. prices check www.budgeteuropetravel.com (I've bought passes from Byron there for years- any questions give him a call - he will expertly objectively IME answer any questions); but do compare prices and if about the same buy in Switzerland as once a pass is issued - like here before your trip it is subject I believe to a 15-20% cancellation fee if something weird comes up and you can't travel. Figure in any c cards foreign transaction fees too.
But last I checked the prices were about the same each end but that was a few months ago. www.sbb.ch will have pass prices for sale at stations in Switzerland.
Anyway check here and there for prices. For U.S. prices check www.budgeteuropetravel.com (I've bought passes from Byron there for years- any questions give him a call - he will expertly objectively IME answer any questions); but do compare prices and if about the same buy in Switzerland as once a pass is issued - like here before your trip it is subject I believe to a 15-20% cancellation fee if something weird comes up and you can't travel. Figure in any c cards foreign transaction fees too.
But last I checked the prices were about the same each end but that was a few months ago. www.sbb.ch will have pass prices for sale at stations in Switzerland.
Aug 28th, 2017, 05:23 AM
#39
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Should I buy in US? When I buy my ticket to the Berner Oberland from Mainz, will my German portion be figured just to the border and my Swiss Railpass picks up there?>
If via Basel yes I believe to Basel where most German trains end -activate your Swiss Pass or buy one there
But if taking ICEs from Stuttgart to Zurich -perhaps the quickest way not sure then the discounted ticket will be valid to Zurich where you would activate or buy your pass.
I may be wrong but TMK that's how it's always been.
Check www.bahn.de/en for fares and booking.
If via Basel yes I believe to Basel where most German trains end -activate your Swiss Pass or buy one there
But if taking ICEs from Stuttgart to Zurich -perhaps the quickest way not sure then the discounted ticket will be valid to Zurich where you would activate or buy your pass.
I may be wrong but TMK that's how it's always been.
Check www.bahn.de/en for fares and booking.
Aug 28th, 2017, 05:33 AM
#40
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Quick check however shows 39 euro tickets for Mainz to Wengen for tickets two months out (112 euro with no discounts for one month out!) - but dummy dates. So the discounted 39 euro price would be valid all the way to Wengen but only two months out on one early afternoon departure -others are 79 - so you play around - may be best to just do the discounted ticket all way to Wengen and not have to use a day on a pass.
But play around at www.bahn.de/en -put in Mainz to Basel and Mainz to Zurich for several trains then change destination to Wengen and see what the difference would be and then whether it is worthwile to use your pass or not.
But play around at www.bahn.de/en -put in Mainz to Basel and Mainz to Zurich for several trains then change destination to Wengen and see what the difference would be and then whether it is worthwile to use your pass or not.
