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Kyoto protocol now agreed by all but US.

Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 04:34 AM
  #1  
frank
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Kyoto protocol now agreed by all but US.

I have just heard a radio broadcast of the US delegate at the world climate talks in Bonn being booed during her closing speech.

Seems the other delegates didn't like their time being wasted by someone who was told publicly not to sign up before getting on the plane.
Even Japan has signed up now!
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 05:19 AM
  #2  
abc
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Not one country at the summit has ratified and put into their own law the provisions of the Kyoto protocol. If they think it is so great, why don't they do it in their own country? They don't need US permission.

Hypocrisy, anyone?
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 06:24 AM
  #3  
Tahiti Bob
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It has not yet been ratified because the details of the agreement are still being discussed. this is the normal process.

And since the US is the biggest polluter of the world, it is very important that the USA sign the Kyoto protocol.
Furthermore, Kyoto will have some negative economic consequences for those who enforce it, but the whole world will benefit if global warming is stopped or reversed, among others the USA and other who don't ratify Kyoto. (gain, no pain).

US hypocrisy, anyone ?
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 06:41 AM
  #4  
Martin
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... and your travel-related point is... what?
Take it to a political forum.
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 06:42 AM
  #5  
Don
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"...since the US is the biggest polluter of the world...." Where do you get that information, Tahiti Bob?
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 07:16 AM
  #6  
tahiti_bob
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World statistics of carbon emission per country:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/iea/tableh1.html

Courtesy of US Energy Information Administration.
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 07:21 AM
  #7  
TBH
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1. The Kyoto treaty has not been ratified by one single country.

2. The US will never ratify it and in the process ruin it's economy while China and India are exempt.

3. ...and what exactly does this have to do with travel?

TBH
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 07:27 AM
  #8  
JY
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Several countries have ratified Kyoto.
Romania is the only industrialized country to ratify it.

Some other ratifiers are: Antigua, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Barbados, Bolivia, Cyprus, Ecuador, El Salvador, and others.

No West European country has ratified it.

So I guess Romania is the most environmentally friendly country in Western Europe.
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 07:42 AM
  #9  
sick
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Firstly to THB:
So I guess it's better to ruin the world through increased emissions than it is to have your precious stock values decrease by a few thousand dollars? Companies might actually have to lower their profits to be more environmentally friendly -- oh no !!!

Secondly, to JY:
At least Romania is putting in the effort ! What is the almight US of A doing other than polluting itself and its neighbours?!
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 08:22 AM
  #10  
JY
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Romania is not putting in any effort. Their economy has decline substantially over the last 10 years, so they don't have to do anything to meet Kyoto.

Likewise, some of the European "cuts" are accomplished through the closing of East German factories. That's why everything is referenced to 1990 or so, as opposed to cutting current levels.

Also remember, the US Senate voted 95-0 in opposition to Kyoto. This was not a formal ratification vote, but a sense-of-the-Senate vote.
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 08:30 AM
  #11  
gfqrhrw
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helllllooooo....Mc fly.....is anybody home ?????
this is a travel site, and a travel forum.....
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 08:52 AM
  #12  
TBH
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Sick,

You're right, the US is guilty of all the other evils of the world, so you may as well paint us with this wide paint brush as well.

Never mind that no other Western European country has signed on, just blame those bad, ugly Americans, they're the cause of all the problems.

That's OK, we've got big, very big shoulders. We have to, we do most of the world's heavy lifting.

Thank you,

TBH
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 10:49 AM
  #13  
tahiti_bob
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Dear TBH,

You don't know AT ALL what you're talking about. No one is supposed to have already ratified the Kyoto Protocol, it's still being negociated. Simply, Bush has said it will not ratify later anyway.

BIG shoulders but small brain.
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 11:06 AM
  #14  
JY
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tahiti_bob:
Well, 30 or so countries have ratified Kyoto already. Why did they do this, if it's still being negotiated ?

According to cnn.com:
During the last-ditch effort, delegates struggled with the issue of compliance -- or how to enforce an international treaty covering nearly 180 nations on greenhouse gases and how to impose penalties for violations.

The 1997 treaty aims to reduce global carbon dioxide emissions by 5.2 percent of 1990 levels by 2012.

 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 03:25 PM
  #15  
Rex
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I think that this thread has plenty to do with travel. It has a lot to do with opinions towards Americans, and if you engage Europeans in conversation (as opposed to just staring at the "stuff" in their country, like it's a zoo), it will likely come up.

Definitions ARE everything when it comes to Kyoto, and unless and until the definitions stop stacking the deck in favor of Germany, Britain and other ENORMOUS polluters, the US will not ratify. Kyoto does not recognize the concept of NET carbon into the atmosphere. The US (because of its abundant forests) actually REMOVES more carbon than it puts in. Canada is FAR, far ahead of the US in NET carbon removal (for the same reasons). Virtually every advanced country in Europe is behind.

The index year also stacks the deck way in favor of Germany and Britain. For no logical reason, 1990 is chosen as the index year. The absorption of East Germany, and the closing down of a LOT of very dirty polluting power plants means that Germany has to do almost nothing for the NEXT ten years. The (price-based) change over from coal to natural gas in the past decade means much of the same on Britain.

Make 2000 the index year, and they wouldn't ratify either.

And - - as with all threads here on this forum - - if you don't find this of interest, or relevant, just move on.

Best wishes,

Rex
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 04:29 PM
  #16  
another
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What is the deal? I surfed today and found this post, or ones very similar to it on almost EVERY site I went to. These wacko's who apparently don't have to earn a living spend their time trying to force their misplaced ideals down everyone's throat. I grew up in the 70's when you couldn't even SEE Los Angeles in the daytime due to pollution. Remember Pittsburgh? It was filthy!! Everywhere you go our Country is cleaned up and getting even cleaner. It's like the hippies have never grown up on some of these issues. Look out the window, guy, take a breath of fresh air!
 
Old Jul 23rd, 2001, 04:39 PM
  #17  
ohmy!
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Dear Sick,
Let's all join hands and read Jonathan Livingston Seagull! The 60's are over, please stop fighting "the man". NO ONE wants a polluted world, but not every "solution" is good. Why is it that unless everyone agrees to all the the "environmentalist" (why do you get to claim that title?) they are greedy capitalist? We all have families and want the best for this planet. Have you been in a big city lately? Look around- you can SEE! So much has been done, and is being done but it doesn't seem to count to the professional protesters.
 

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