Russ Buhite

Since someone mentioned avoiding the Kings Cross RR station, I thought that I would relay our bad experience. I suppose that I should have asked for advice on this forum before finalizing our plans. We took the GNER train from York (4 adults, one child, more luggage than will fit on 3 luggage carts!) to Kings Cross station and then to Gatwick Airport. Not having done it before, we naively assumed that the Thameslink train would be on an adjoining platform and that we would be riding on a real train to Gatwick! I felt like an idiot because it was a tube train and we had to stand. But that's not the worst of it. The Thameslink station is 300M from the Kings Cross station and you have to venture outside past the porno shops, etc. AND the luggage carts will not operate outside the Kings Cross station. They are magnetized! We cheated and rolled them backwards (the only way they would slightly roll) and lugged the 3 carts the 300M only to find that the Thameslink station has no lift but 2 flights of stairs down to the platform. I guess that we should have used 3 porters. Is there better surface rail transportation from London to Gatwick? If there isn't there should be. I shudder to think what wheelchair-bound people have to do in London to get around. Overall, I thought that the tube was great and we used it exclusively in London to get around, but it needs some serious over-hauls.

Nigel Doran

There is no tube link from Gatwick to Kings Cross. There is a suburban rail link, and if you travelled at peak time when most others travel, then space would necessarily have been at a premium. <BR>Kings Cross Thameslink is indeed a fair walk from the main station. <BR>From Victoria to Gatwick there is also the Gatwick Express. These have fast, comfortable designed-for-the-route trains (more space for luggage etc) and are direct and frequent. These are more expensive than the usual suburban train, but not much more so. They also run 24/7. <BR>You can get to Victoria on the Tube from Kings Cross via the Victoria line. It would take about 10 minutes. <BR> <BR>By the way, 'wheelchair bound' is not the right way to say 'with disability'. <BR> <BR>The Tube is great, but until we have govts. who are prepared to spend more, then it will still need those overhauls you talk of. Mind you, it is the most extensive metro system in the world, used by 20 million people a week and rising.

Karen

....... it was also the first underground and of course now it is the oldest and was built as and when, which is why there is no set structure for the lines - and also when wheelchair access probably wasn't required. Currently there is an interesting documentary on ITV about the tube, I didnt know that the oldest part of the line dates right back to the 1860's! <BR> <BR>Russ, you really should have done your homework The London Transport site has lots of info and great maps http://www.londontransport.co.uk/vis...vlt_home.shtml <BR> <BR>Or the Railtrack site which has route planners http://195.92.21.203/bin/query.exe/en On that site you would have seen that there were a couple of different ways from Kings Cross to Gatwick, it lists tube connections and the Thameslink one you mentioned (which isnt a tube train but a commuter service joining north and south London). I'm surprised you didnt see any leaflets advertising the Gatwick Express, I see them everywhere in London. <BR> <BR>Oh well, you will know in future <BR> <BR>Karen <BR> <BR>

Matt

King's Cross can be a little seedy, but there are also a couple of pearls. St. Pancras station (right next door to King's Cross station)is an amazing neo-gothic building. The adjacent new British Library is also very striking, and intelligent enough to defer to the station: seen from the library forecourt, they complement each other wittily in red brick, the low roof of the library capped by the crazy cupolas and spires of the station. One of London's many surprises that make the place so interesting to architecture buffs. The library, of course, also hosts a free exhibit of some of the most important primary documents in British History: 2 copies of Magna Carta, the Lindisfarne Gospels, a draft of the "final note" ultimatum Chamberlain sent Germany at the invasion of Poland, Beatles' lyrics scrawled on the back of envelopes, Mary Queen of Scots' death warrant signed by Elizabeth... fascinating stuff. I also like to stroll behind the listed gasometer skeletons (!), where there is a beautiful nature reserve beside the rail tracks.

Russ Buhite

You're right about doing my homework but I relied on the Trainline web-site which gave me a number of time and route options for York to Gatwick and I was simply not familiar enough with the potential pitfalls. I found no difference whatsoever between the "suburban train" and the tube trains. Victoria Sta. definitely would have been a better choice. Sorry for my political incorrectness but I still wonder how those with disabilities and using wheelchairs can get around the tube system. Overall, I think the tube is great and so much more extensive than anything we have in the States. Its funny how I completely over-planned the rest of our trip but did not research the rail trip to Gatwick further. We actually took the Gatwick Express in 1991 and were generally pleased. Our problem is that we haven't yet learned to travel light!

Julian

On a point of detail, Russ, it is possible to get from Kings X mainline station to the Thameslink station via a tunnel and avoid having to go outside. Not that either way is very satisfactory. One option which most people seems to miss is to stay on the Thameslink from Gatwick until West Hampstead and change on to the Jubilee Line there. There is a short walk between the stations, but for some destinations this can be easier than battling with Victoria or Kings X.

David White

Russ, <BR> <BR>You have hit upon one of the most maddening limitations about train travel through London! We were in the same situation this summer but decided to try and get a taxi from Kings Cross to Victoria (then the Gatwick Express). <BR> <BR>We arrived at Kings Cross at about 10 pm. The queue for the taxi's had about 300 zillion tired travelers in it so we decided to cross the street to adjacent St. Pancras station. The taxi line was much shorter, BUT there were no taxis! After 20 minutes we gave up and went to the street where we managed to hail a passing taxi. <BR> <BR>Other than empathy, there is no real point to telling you my story, except to introduce one alternative way to get between London's many rail stations: London Transport operates a Stationlink bus service that runs a circular route between major rail stations. The London Transport web site does not seem to include Stationlink info, but you can email London Transport for information on the bus service. <BR> <BR>Unfortunately, Stationlink does not run later in the evening, so we could not try it on our trip. <BR> <BR>

lisa

all this talk about kings cross station is making me a little nervous... i am planning on taking the tube into the station (from heathrow) and then catching a train to go north to durham. i will be traveling alone and lugging a suitcase. any suggestions on how to make this transition as smooth as possible?

Jane

Lisa, <BR>you'll be fine using the station. I've done the same trip hundreds of times and never had any problems (apart from appalling refreshments and massive crowds). It's the area outside of Kings Cross station that has the bad reputation - and even then, it's quite safe to walk around in the daytime. There's a staffed passenger lounge on one of the platforms that you can sit in (sorry, can't remember the number of the platform - it's the one on your left with the cafe and shops when entering the station)

Russ Buhite

David, <BR>It sounds like you had some problems too. After reading the responses to my initial note, I realized that I just had not done enough research. Trainline does not really provide the info. one needs. For example, I did not know that I would even need to change stations. The Kings Cross station itself is fine even if the outside is a bit seedy. Even the outside looked safe enough in the daytime. Our main problem was the tonnage that was our luggage. Four adults and a child can add up. We would not have been able to fit in one taxi. I'll know better next time.

Steve Mueller

This is a bit tangential to the comments in the original post, and Londoners are all too familiar with the story, but one of the greatest tragedies in recent London history occurred at the Kings Cross Underground Station. <BR> <BR>In 1987 a minor fire under the escalator suddenly flared due to air pressure changes caused by an incoming train. The disaster resulted in 30 fatalities.

anniel

I saw the post about taking Thameslink to West Hampstead and then walking the short distance to the Jubilee line. I We use Thameslink a lot to get to Gatwick from West Hampstead and to return home. I feel I must warn you all that here are about 25 or more stairs to climb from the platform to road level and it is not easy with heavy cases. We know this to our cost. Otherwise, if you are not heavily laden it is a good idea.

Joyce

resurrecting fyi