cwojo, it's very unlikely you'll need to show even the photocopied passport when you're in the UK. There just aren't that many occasions when you need to show ID (unless you're planning on opening a bank account or some such).

>> You mean an adult female's total mass on one end of the strap wouldn't have unseated a scooter passenger pulling on the other end? I'd like to see the physics of that encounter analyzed. Really, I would. <<

Same here...

Passepartout, I don't think dramatic license lends itself to physics analysis. That said, I think we can all safely assume that the poster meant that the victim was thrown off-balance by the sudden tug on the purse strap and, in the ensuing moments, felt compelled to run several steps behind the scooter in an attempt to regain balance. This would certainly feel like being 'dragged', if only through the air.

Meanwhile, back to the topic: I do feel for the old lady. That said, if one is going to travel at 83, one needs to remember that one cannot expect to win a contest of (physical) wills, not to mention that at any age, one has to remember that the value of one's wellbeing exceeds the contents of one's purse. While we can do what we can to protect ourselves from thieves, including moneybelts, there is always a point at which one must be ready to make discretion the better part of valour. For me, that comes when someone mugs me for my moneybelt, as happened to some unfortunate student in Madrid's Atocha station....)

Passepartout, you really are a bore.

To passepartout et al...
It's a little irritating how many people on this message board feel the need to attack other posters.
A few years ago in Paris I watched in horror from the top of a tour bus as a woman was dragged by a guy on the back of a scooter. The woman did not let go - she really didn't have a chance to extricate her arm - but she fell to the ground on her back and was dragged several feet - in front of our bus actually - before the guy gave up and let go. It was very terrifying to watch. I did not think to analyse the physics of the encounter, nor did my husband who happens to have a degree in physics. To those of you who want details to be able to convince yourselves I'm not making this up, our bus was at a stop and the woman was part of a group standing on the sidewalk. My husband and I turned only as the woman screamed but my daughter actually saw the guy walk towards the woman, grab her purse then jump onto the back of his friends bike. The guy was not unseated by the woman's weight as they rode off, but he did eventually let go of the purse.

These things do happen. Not sure what you can do to avoid them 100%. This woman was holding her bag on one shoulder only. I think that makes your bag look like an easier target to grab. I just try to always be aware of my surroundings and take reasonable precautions.

Dramatic license. I see.

Sorry if we don't meet everyone's need for stimulation.

It's truly sickening to hear stories like this. Attacking anyone is horrible, but an older person to me is far more despicable. It was noted she was traveling with a 50 something niece. Where was she in all of this? Couldn't she have come to her aunt's aid, or at least shouted at her to "let go?"

I thought the above remark, "if one is going to travel at 83, one needs to remember that one cannot expect to win a contest of (physical) wills" was interesting. It's so very easy to be judgmental when you're young! Would settling in at the old folks' home be preferable? Until faced with a situation like this, you can't predict how you would respond.

Passepartout--not all thieves are brilliant logicians.

No one said they were (although I imagine the good ones have a keen sense of what's possible and what isn't - such as essaying a second attempt to cut a strap that didn't yield the first time).

I was simply speculating on the physics. Anyone lacking the desire (or ability) to discuss this in a neutral way can go talk about knockoff purses or something.

Passepartout - if you really wanted to discuss physics (yawn), why are you on this forum? Surely you can hold your own with the scientists on another forum. The discussion here is about mugging whilst abroad. Get it, sweetie?

Really? I thought the discussion here was about offensive threats when traveling, defensive postures, and physical means of protecting one's safety and property.

I'm thinking in terms of developing &quot;what to do if your purse is grabbed&quot; sort of advice, rather than the <i>ad hominem</i> wangling that began when you arrived.

Sweetie.

Passepartout, what are your credentials in physics? I have none whatsoever, but I seem to remember that momentum figures into the equation somewhere. Since I saw the woman dragged on her back with my own eyes - something you don't quickly forget - and since my 2 year old 25lb grandson is quite capable of knocking me (body mass of 125 lbs) off my feet if he runs at me hard enough, I think you should give up on the physics speculation. Please.

It doesn't require a PhD to understand what F=MA means. But Newton's Third Law trumps. Equal and opposite reaction, remember?

If an assailant's momentum causes a force of x pounds to be applied to the purse strap (and its owner), the same x is applied to the assailant. This tends to pull the purse-wearer over as well as the thief off his seat. The greater mass wins, but both are displaced.

If you don't want to discuss this, just don't respond. (Duh.)

If you are impressed by Latin and italics, maybe you need to set your threshold higher.

Latin AND italicised! I am impressed.

Is it really that theft in Europe so common? What about police?

Just want to make a comment about hotel room safes. I've read recently several accounts of thefts from room safes. They're not 100% safe. Use the main hotel safe instead.

All this discussion made me curious..so I checked the USA Overseas Security website and motor scooter crime is described therein! Also they advise against wearing your handbag across the body, rather keep it on one shoulder and holding on to it!


&quot;Most street crime is overt and centers on purse snatching and pick pocketing. Police estimate that there are over 1,000 ?velvet hand? gangs operating in and around Rome whose specialty is pick pocketing and petty thefts. The profile of the most common street criminal is thirty years old, a drug addict, and a purse-snatcher. Purses are either simply grabbed or straps are slashed by a person on foot or more commonly by a person on a motor scooter.&quot;

&quot;Individuals should be advised not to carry purses or handbags with the strap lengthwise over the body. They should carry the purse or handbag with the strap over the shoulder and the purse facing away from the street. With the strap over the shoulder, it can be released quickly, especially in case of a sudden purse snatching. Whereas, if the strap is lengthwise over the body, a sudden purse snatching may become violent if the criminal jerks or drags the victim. This safety precaution helps avoid any head or shoulder injuries that might result from a sudden fall.&quot;

So people do fall over...in your face Passepartout!!!

Mimar: I'd be interested in the information you have on hotel safes... I've read a few references as to them being safe or unsafe (nothing is 100 %) but if you have an article on it, I'm interested. Thanks!

Jody - thanks. That's good to know.

Ziana - although your post is deliberately provocative and without substance (and therefore hardly worth responding to), I do feel you could use some remedial practice in reading comprehension:

Author: Passepartout
Date: 10/10/2006, 12:34 pm

It doesn't require a PhD to understand what F=MA means. But Newton's Third Law trumps. Equal and opposite reaction, remember?

If an assailant's momentum causes a force of x pounds to be applied to the purse strap (and its owner), the same x is applied to the assailant. <b>This tends to pull the purse-wearer over</b> as well as the thief off his seat. The greater mass wins, but both are displaced.