111op

That is true to some extent, but well, I think that as cliched as this sounds, the US still lags behind Europe in terms of food appreciation. And, honestly, I still think that the general quality of produce in Europe is better.

Don't you agree that portions in the US are generally bigger than the portions in Europe?

And, by the way, to digress a bit, this extends to other things -- clothes, for example. I'm a pretty slim person, and it's perennially difficult for me to buy clothes in the US. I wear size 28/29 pants, for example, and pants sizes here regularly start at 30. And if I find my size, frequently I find the cut much bigger here. I remember buying a Brooks Brothers shirt once and wearing it and finding that it's clearly made for someone 30%-40% bigger. I find it much easier to buy clothes in Europe. And I look better.

I think that I'm just stating the obvious, actually. While I agree with you that we think that something is better because of the euphoria associated with travel, I disagree that that's the sole effect.

ckenb

I lived in France for 8 years in the 1970s and 1980s, mostly in Paris, and I've been living in France again for nearly 2 years now, this time out in the country. In between, I lived in Washington DC and San Francisco.

I've always said the food tastes better in France than it does in the U.S. -- overall. Especially vegetables and fruits, but also yogurts, butter, cheese (!), ice cream, meats, and bread. I don't know why it's true. The food is not as bland, and it's more satisfying in smaller quantities.

For me, it's not because of travel euphoria. I live here. It's the way food is produced and handled, I guess.

My town (pop. 1100) has a new artisan baker who makes really good bread and croissants. The baker has a delivery person who drives around the village (it's pretty spread out) five mornings a week selling baked goods. She blows her horn when she arrives in the neighborhood and I go out and buy something every time because I want the service to continue.

ckenb

I will add that I always lost weight in France too. Part of that was all the walking I did. The other part was, I think, smaller portions of more varied, more satisfying food.

Now that I'm older, I don't seem to be losing weight here but I'm eating well and not gaining...

ira

Food and wine in the US will not taste the same as in Paris because of the "tourist effect", because the ingredients and the means of manufacture are not the same and because of the rigors of shipping.

We have a gelato shop not far from my little town. The equipment is Italian. The flavorings come from Italy.

The texture is Italian. The taste is very good, but it is slightly different from Italy because the milk is from the USA.

Croissants made in the US will not take like France because the flour and butter are different.

etc, etc, etc.

ira

"taste" not "take"

111op

Yes, ira, and that's what I'm saying -- that it's not all the tourist effect.

I think that the Times ran an article on cappucino comparisons a few years ago. If I remember right, the best one was a coffee shop off Madison Avenue, almost (?) like what you can get in Italy. But perhaps, ever so elusively, something's missing.

WillTravel

French yogurt is qualitatively different. You can tell as soon as you stick your spoon into it. So that's not the travel effect.

Re the croissants - I mentioned I did finally find a source that is as good as what we got from a Paris grocery, but it costs a lot more.

In respect to my son's taste buds, he's not one to be fooled by the euphoria of travel. Trust me on this - he's very aware and sensitive to the slightest variations. Most likely a genetic "supertaster".

toulousaine

The ONLY yogurt that comes close to French yogurt is Dannon La Creme, here in the US.
All other yogurt, including Yoplait, is nothing like french yogurt.

111op

Has your son thought about what he wants to do when he grows up, WillTravel? It seems like there must be all sorts of exciting careers in store. Maybe food critic of some sort?

WillTravel

Alas, 111op, being so sensitive to food tastes means he only likes a limited repertoire of foods, although that's increasing. That caused me a fair bit of grief when he was younger, but I had to admit he is perfectly healthy. But his current plan is to be a linguistics professor, and his current university studies are along that line. Obviously that's a difficult field, so we'll see how it goes.

111op

Well, he could specialize in chocolates, or become an oenophile. Being limited in tastes is probably an advantage, actually -- well, I guess not for a good critic, but possibly for food-related careers.

Don't know much about linguistics, but I had to read Saussure in college. I've been told that Saussures's linguistics theory is all nonsense, but it's been very influential for the French intellectuals. Have never read Chomsky.

WillTravel

111op, he doesn't like chocolate, of any sort! Forget coffee, tea, or wine either.

111op

Well, bread, pastries, etc. There's still a lot of ground to cover. (He obviously likes these.) I mean, he can start a rival to Poilane or something (I've not been though). Is that good or just a shadow of its former self?

Mommo

American laws over food are different than europeans, and regarding wines, a producer friend of mine told me that some ingredient (can't remember what) is mandatory in the US for wine production, therefore the european wine for the US market are very often different than the one they produce for their homeland market where they don't add that ingredient.

As for the wine bottles bought in Europe and brought back in the States it is very important before opening the bottle to let it rest for a period of one week to two weeks, depending on the wine quality (usually if the older it is the more it needs to rest). Remember that wine is organically alive, and it suffers the altitude of airplane travels, and all the stress of a long journey. It needs to recover and rest in order to get back to its originally taste.

loisco

For those of you looking to bake with good French butter, Plugra is one and is sold at Trader Joes and at some supermarkets here. What a difference in taste!!

I just read an article on cheese which essentially said that the US requirements on making cheese are different than in France. I forgot the details but because of some US restrictions our cheese can never be as good.

Also there is a pride in good products that I we found when we traveled (25 years ago of course). I don't see that here except at the farmers market where I shop weekly. I talk to the farmers and fish vendors and it's a whole different ballgame than the supermarket.

Until people here demand more quality we won't see it. I remember when noone knew about "heirloom tomatoes".

FainaAgain

Mommo, the ingredient is "sulfites"

Madison

Chez Nous in Toluca Lake, CA Wonderful neighborhood restaurant and fabulous bakery. Their Croissants are to die for, soft buttery and light.

They do a fabulous business for breakfast and lunch, close to Warner Bros, Disney and Universal. Dinners are quieter which is perfect for me. They have live music as well. (softly played of course.)

ira

>...the US requirements on making cheese are different than in France.<

Aside from such details as using real caves (Roquefort), the main difference is that in the US using unpasteurized milk is generally forbidden.

Thus, cheese can't properly ripen.

clairobscur

Ok..I think I never bought a yogurt in a glass jar. I had no clue that french yogurts were particularily noticeable, either.

Now, I'm going to ask the most ludicrous question a parisian can ask to american tourists :

Where do you buy these yogurts in Paris?

Betsy

There's a shop (fromagerie? cremerie?) on rue Cler a door or two down from Le Grand Leveque hotel. There's a huge vat of yogurt on one of their counters from which they fill different size containers for their customers. This yogurt tastes so heavenly and unlike anything you buy commercially in the US.