Kimberly

We have an 8 night trip planned. We are going to start in Nuremburg for 2 nights, then Salzburg for 2 nights and have 4 more nights to plan. We will be flying out of Stuttgart so we need to end up near there. We will be traveling with a 4 year old, so I'm not sure if Baden Baden has anything other than spa treatment or if we should be thinking more along the lines of Munich, Rothenburg, Stuttgart. Suggestions of good cities in these areas and/or hotel ideas would be appreciated! Thank you, Kimberly

Jinx Hoover

Need to know more. Are you driving or going by train? Are you going directly to Salzburg from Nuremberg?

BTilke

We just got back from a 10 day driving trip in the Steiermark (Austria) and Franconia (Nuremberg). You haven't given your budget or whether you're driving or taking the train. In Nurember itself, we usually stay at the Hotel Maritim, which is just across the street from the walled old city. Close in, but a few blocks from the iffy crowd around the train station. If you want to stay in Nuremberg, make your hotel reservations ASAP because the Christmas market in the city attracts big crowds, including tour groups, and they fill up the hotels. Our favorite restaurant in Nberg is Heilige Geist (it was a medieval hospital). If you want to stay in the outer area, I highly recommend the Altes Forsthaus, a 700-year old forester's house in the village of Kalchreuth, near Heroldsberg, about 20 minutes from Nuremberg. They completely redid the hotel about 18 months ago, keeping the best of its old features (beautiful beams and woodwork) yet making it thoroughly up to date in amenities (attractively tiled baths, desks with data ports, king sized beds, etc.) and about $60 a night/double, including breakfast. Free parking. <BR>I think Baden Baden is too far away for this trip and truthfully, when we were there last year, we weren't that impressed. My husband's family used to live and work there and he feels it has lost much of its glamour in the last two decades. <BR>You might want to include Bamberg in your trip--a pretty old town and a fairly short drive from Nuremberg. <BR>BTilke (Brussels)

Kimberly

Thank you for your responses. We will be picking up a car in Nurnberg and driving from there to Salzburg. Budget is not really an issue as this will be the last big trip for a while. Hubby was looking at the Le Meridien Grand Hotel in Nurnberg, but I don't know too much about it. Thanks again! Kimberly

Bob

I would consider Garmisch area for a few days to see the Ludwig castles, Zugspitz, Oberammergau, Etal Abbey, etc. Or plan some time for Rothenburg. Don't forget to see Berchtesgaden area while in Salzburg. Very close and nice.<BR><BR>I was stationed in Stuttgart in the Army a long time ago....1970-71. We get back there still. It is a great city and the downtown is very nice, but I do not consider it to be a destination for a tourist. <BR><BR>The Stuttgart International airport hotel is on the autobahn close to airport so you can use that for final night if you have an early flight and it is not a bad drive from Garmisch area or Rothenburg.

BTilke

Le Meridian in Nurember is a very good hotel but from what I recall, it's a little closer to the train station and the crowd there can be on the skeevy side at night. The Maritim is also a business class hotel but a little farther away from the station. We had a very comfortable stay there last year and the service was excellent. (I have also stayed there on business as a guest of the Siemens corporation.). Make sure you eat at Heilige Geist on one of your two nights--it's considered one of the best restaurants in the city and has a pretty setting in the old town.

Kimberly

Thanks everybody! We have now cut Baden Baden from the list and are considering Berchesgarten (sp?) and Rothenburg.

wes' daughter

Don't know whether my earlier Email was of any value to you. Here are the itineraries to which I referred. As I mentioned in my Email, neither my dad nor I are in a position to answer any questions regarding them; he due to health issues , me to little experience in European travel.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>To visit two of Bavaria's most famous castles, I'd suggest an early start to arrive at them before the tourist buses from Munich do. From the inn in Hohenfurch return to the Romantic Road (Rte 17) and head south, passing through Schongau and Steingaden to Hohenschwangau. It's about 45kms/28 miles. Leave the car in the special park at Hohenschwangau. You can walk from the parking lot to Schloss Hohenschwangau, one of the few castles that someone actually lived in for an extended period of time . Queen Marie, the mother of King Ludwig II lived there for many years. Following the tour of the castle walk back to the center of the village where you can either take a bus from the Hotel Liesl or horse-drawn cart from the Hotel Muller to Neuschwanstein. Take one or the other; you can walk to Neuschwanstein but it's a very steep and lengthy climb. After touring the castle, you might want to walk up the Pollat gorge to the Marienbrucke, the bridge that spans the gorge. From here you can look down on Neuschwanstein castle. Return to the village and your car by either the bus or horse cart. <BR><BR>The tour of the two castles, coupled with the drive time from Hohenfurch should take about three and a half to four hours. You might want to stop for lunch in the village or drive a short distance to the town of Fussen for lunch. <BR><BR>Following lunch, from Fussen, pick up Rte 16 going towards Markt-Oberdorf. This drive, on the western shore of the Forggensee, is highly scenic. Drive on Rte 16 for about 12km/7 miles and look for a road on your right and signs for towns named Langenwald or Steingaten. Take the road leading to Langenwald and Steingaten (it has no route number) and continue through the town of Steingaten for about 3km/2 miles. You'll see signs for Wies and Wieskirche and a road leading off to the right. Take the road to one of the most stunning sights in all of Bavaria, the Wieskirche. With its pale yellow exterior walls and red roof, it looks rather commonplace from the outside. Enter and encounter an absolute riot of rococo artistry. <BR><BR>Return to Steingaden and take Route 17 north to Schongau then back to Hohenfurch and the Schonach-Hof, your inn. I'd suggest you sit outside in the garden by the fish tank laden with trout. Have a beer, regain your energies and walk up to the church in town and prepare yourself for two surprises. The church, the Parish Church of the Assumption, offers some lovely baroque artwork in its interior. To the rear of the church is a small cemetery; visit it. You'll find it to be immaculate and laden with plants and flowers that suggest the work of a full time highly skilled gardener. <BR><BR>

wes' daughter

Itineraries continued<BR><BR>You may have noticed a building alongside the road in the pastureland behind your inn. It's a Gothic chapel, St. Ursula's and dates from 1492. I don't think it's open to the public; at least it hasn't been on my visits. <BR><BR>I think this itinerary, if taken at your ease, will constitute a fairly full day's activities. If you find, after visiting the castles that you have time to spare, you might want to consider a boat ride on the Forggensee. The boats are available at Fussen. <BR><BR>This is an itinerary for a particularly sunny day. It involves a tour of the German Alps, another castle and a scenic detour into Austria. Take Rte 17 south from Hohenfurch past Schongau to Peiting. In Peiting, look for Rte 472 (it's clearly marked) and travel east towards Peissenberg. You'll see signs for Hohen-Peissenberg which is where you want to go. Drive to the top of the hill (it's only about 3500 feet high), park and you'll get a sweeping, panoramic view of the German Alps and eleven Alpine lakes. Return to Rte 472 and continue east for a short distance looking for a road on the right that leads to Bobing and Rottenbuch. The ride to Rottenbuch is in a scenic valley. Stop in Rottenbuch and visit the Gothic basilica built on Roman ruins. The church interior is stunning, yet another example of Bavarian Baroque design. Check to see if the peasant theatre is giving a performance in the evening. You might want to stop back for it, even though it will be in German dialect. <BR><BR>From Rottenbuch, take Rte 23 south to Oberammergau, a charming village where a Passion Play takes place every ten years, next in the year 2010. Oberammergau is a delightful walking village, with buildings covered with lovely, colorful murals. Continue on Rte 23, the Deutsche Alpenstrasse (German Alpine Road) to Ettel and follow the Alpenstrasse west to the castle at Linderhof. This is Ludwig II's castle imitating Louis XIV's Versailles. It's well worth a tour. <BR><BR>Continue west on the Alpenstrasse to the Austrian border at Ammersattel and the town of Reutte where you will pick up Rte 314 and drive east past Heiterwang and Wangle to Lermoos. Just past Lermoos you'll find Rte 187; take it north to the border where it becomes Rte 24. Between Lermoos and the border you'll pass the Zugspitze, Germany's highest Alpine mountain on your right. <BR><BR>Continue on Rte 24 to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. At the train station, there's a cog-wheel railroad that will take you to the Schneefernerhaus Hotel, 8700 feet up the Zugspitze. From there a cable car will take you to the summit. The train and cable car trip will take about half an hour. <BR><BR>From Garmisch take Rte 23 north to the village of Ettal, an attractive village with an outstanding monastery , the Kloster Ettal. It's history dates back to 1320, but was significantly remodeled in the baroque style in the early 1700s. <BR><BR>Continue north on Rte 23. It will take you to Schongau and then Hohenfurch. <BR><BR>

wes' daughter

Here's a third and final itinerary with two options. Both options include an opportunity to see some Alpine lakes as well as the German Alpine mountain range. The shorter itinerary, about 224km/150 miles, includes a stop at a third lake. Bavaria's second largest, the Starnbergersee. This is the lake where King Ludwig drowned, either by accident or as the result of an assassination. The longer route encompasses 327km/200miles, and includes a visit to the Austrian city Innsbruck, the summer home of the Austrian Emperors. <BR><BR>To begin, Rte 17 south to Schongau and Peiting and east on Rte 472. Continue on Rte 472 until you reach Rte 11 around Benediktbeuern. Drive south on Rte 11 to Kochel and follow the signs to the Freilichtmuseum von Glentleiten. This is an open air museum with over 40 Bavarian farmhouses datling back to the 16th century. There are regular displays of traditional craftmanship. It is sort of Bavaria's counterpart of Williamsburg, Virginia. Return to Rte 11 and prepare yourself for a series of hairpin turns as you wend your way between the Kochelsee on your right and the Walchensee on your left. <BR>Continue on Rte 11 past Wallgau and Krun, where Rte 11 becomes Rte 2. Continue on Rte 2 to Mittenwald, a fascinating town. Mittenwald is famous for its violin makers and woodworkers. You're probably not in the market for a violin, but do check out the wooden masks the carvers make for pre-Lenten celebrations. You'll find a large number of woodworking craftsmen in the town and a wonderful opportunity to pick up unique souvenirs. Now, backtrack on Rte 2 and 11 to just past the town of Wallgau where you'll find a toll road on your right. Take it for a scenic ride. (It's actually part of the Deutsche Alpenstrasse but passes through a national forest alongside the banks of the Isar River, thus the toll.) The toll road ends at Vorderriss. Continue on it and cross over the man-made lake, Sylvenstein-stausee. Just past the lake, the road will fork. If you take the right fork, Rte 181, you'll almost immediately cross over the Austrian border and begin the longer of the two itineraries. Continue on scenic Rte 181 to the A12 autobahn and take it westbound to Innsbruck, where by all means you should visit the old town with its magnificent buildings and shops with their wonderful old gilded wrought iron signs. From Innsbruck, take Rte 177 north. The route changes its numbering in Germany from 177 to E6, then 2. Take Rte 2 to Oberau where you can pick up Rte 23 which leads back to Schongau and Hohenfurch. <BR><BR>If you'd prefer the shorter itinerary, at the fork just past the Sylvenstein-stausee, continue to the left on Rte 13 to Lenggries where you can take a cable car up the Brauneck to its summit at a little over 5,000 feet. Here there's a viewing platform from which to see most of the Alpine lakes, almost the entire German Alpine range and to the south the glaciers in the central Alps. Continue north on Rte 13 to Bad Tolz. This is a large town with modern spas and equally modern medical facilities. The old part of town is charming, though, with its colorful old gabled houses. From Bad Tolz, you can pick up Rte 472 and take it to signs leading to Wolfl and Seeshaupt which puts you on the shore of the Starnbergersee. Drive up the eastern shore of the lake (the scenic route) to Starnberg then pick up the road leading to Weilheim and Peissenberg. At Peissenberg you'll be back on our old friend Rte 472 which leads to Schongau and home

John

To "Wes" daughter:<BR><BR>How is your father? I think that it is wonderful that you are pulling Wes' itineraries and helping out fellow fodorites! Give your father my best, and I await his return to the board<BR>JOHN

kimberly

Thank you everyone! You've been so much help!

nnn

Go to Tuebingen. It's a charming university town on the Neckar River about 30km south of Stuttgart.

Santa Clause

Then visit the Christmas Markets in Stuttgart and in Tuebingen - magical.<BR>After a glass or two of "Gluehwein", which is a hot, spicy red-wine punch, you'll never feel cold again.<BR>Visit the exhibition of carved nativity scenes in the Stuttgart City Hall (Rathaus).<BR>Then, Merry Christmas!<BR>