Hi all, last year I posted a request for help for an 8 to 12 week itinerary for Europe and received lots of help, thank you all. Finally, it's happening! My husband, two daughters (9 & 13) and I haven't booked yet but will take the plunge end of this week I think! From early October to late Dec/early Jan.
We've followed advice and decided on flying into London and out of Paris. (Decided Paris because the flights are timed better for us than using Rome)
So far, dates roughed in show the nights in that town and are really just guesses:
1. London arr 6am - 7th Oct – stay 3 nights 7-10th Oct
2. Depart 11th London to Aberdeen arr pm 10th - hire car? Aberdeen to London - 6 nights 11th -16th to drive back to London - including Dalmunzie/Glenshee (sort of family visit), Edinborough and Luss (west side of Loch Lomond - family heritage site), Cotswolds?, York, Lake District and village of Lacock, Bath, etc?
3. Depart 17th London to Paris - (not sure what the best mode of transport is) stay Paris 5 nights incl day trip to Versailles 17th - 21st
4. Depart 22nd Paris to Bavaria– (one day driving or train?) - 7 days Hohenschwangau or Mittenwald - visit castles and alps 22nd – 28th
5. Depart 29th Bavaria to Salzburg (one day driving or train?)-3 days – Grodig? For Untersberg Mt, walk/hike? 29th – 31st
6. Depart 1st Nov Salzburg via Innsbruck to Switzerland (not sure where but south east) - 7 days in Switzerland – alps, snow and hot chocolate 1st – 7th Nov
7. Depart 8th Switzerland to Northern Italy - Livigno/Montagna/Sondrio (old friends to visit fm 30 years ago) - 3 days in Valtellina area 8th – 11th
8. Depart 12th Sondrio/Nth Italy to Lake Como – (perhaps staying in Veranna?) – day trips to ? - 7 days in Lake Como 12th – 19th
9. Depart 20th Lake Como to Venice - 3 days in Venice 20th – 23rd
10. Depart 24th Venice to Tuscany - 7 days in Tuscany – Sienna, Lucca, Florence, 24th – 1st Dec
11. Depart 2nd Dec Tuscany to Rome – 4 days incl daytrip Pompei? 2nd – 6th Dec
12. Depart Rome to Monte Carlo or Cote d’Azur(St Eze) 7th Dec 3 days – 7th -10th
13. Depart 11th Cote d’Azur to Provence - 3 days – 11th – 14th
14. Depart 15th Provence to Lyon or Grenoble – 3 days – 15th -18th
15. Depart 19th Lyon to Loire Valley – 2 days – 19th – 21st
16. Depart 22nd Loire Valley to Paris Disney - 3 days – 22nd -25th
17. Depart 26th Dec or early Jan Paris/Singapore/Sydney on the I hope this is not seriously confusing to read. I am open to suggestions about what to see more or less of. We’re not deadset on seeing mainly tourist attractions (not that that’s really possible anyway!) but are trying to make sure we see fantastic scenery, eat great food and have a few special places for the girls, like Neutschwanstein castle & Disneyland...
I need more help on transport options from London onwards, willing to lease a car for the lot but is that the best option? I will post some separate questions on different areas once I get a bit of feedback, I’d really appreciate any help, really getting excited now!

It is definitely confusing to read. (Your excitement shows! LOL) You had better broken this up in several threads covering each one country as it is too much for one thread.

In November Livigno, Lake Como and Valtellina will be totally dead. Also, it's rain season that time of year.

Same applies to Switzerland - early November is still dead in the Alps. Ski season has not started yet. Snow will probably be scarce (if the patterns of last years apply).

I don't necessarily think you need to do a thread per country -- but I do agree it is sort of difficult to follow. Maybe more my problem than yours but it did give me a bit of a headache

One quick comment (I'll try to do more later but at least this will bring it to the top)

"<i>2. Depart 11th London to Aberdeen arr pm 10th - hire car? Aberdeen to London - 6 nights 11th -16th to drive back to London - including Dalmunzie/Glenshee (sort of family visit), Edinborough and Luss (west side of Loch Lomond - family heritage site), Cotswolds?, York, Lake District and village of Lacock, Bath, etc?</i>"

Six nights is not nearly enough time for Aberdeen, Dalmunzie/Glenshee, Edinburgh Loch Lomond, the Lake District, York, the Cotswolds, Bath, Lacock and back to London. That is easily two weeks worth (and three if you actually want to see much).

Even cutting a couple of the destinations wouldn't help much since you'd have to cover just about the same distance. Traveling in the UK can't be done at the same speed as in OZ.

You have this luxury of a lot of time but seem to be running hither and yon w/o a real plan.

Hi Thom,

I find your post clear, straightforward and lucid.

I'm exhausted.

I will assume that you have taken long trips with the kids before and know what they can accommodate and how to keep them happy.

>Depart 17th London to Paris - (not sure what the best mode of transport is) ...<

I suggest taking the train - www.eurostar.com. You can pickup your tickets or have them sent to your hotel in London.

>Paris to Bavaria– (one day driving or train?)....<

Depends on how much stuff you are dragging with you.
Since you will return to Paris, you could rent a car there and drop it off at CDG.

I think that your continental itinerary is quite doable by car. You will need road permits for Austria and Switzerland if you go on the main roads. You will need an International Driver's Permit in Austria.

In Salzburg, I can highly recommend
http://www.ammoos.at/main.php?language=en&m=home%29

See my trip report at
ttp://fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=35014078
for details.

Enjoy your adventure.

Hi Ingo, sorry ‘bout that but yes definitely excited! I’ll put more specific threads out soon. Re Northern Italy and Switzerland, do you think it would be better to head for Tuscany for the week (or two) and then return to the north for Lake Como, Valtellina and Switzerland before heading back through France? Only I ski (so far) but we all want to enjoy the snow and toboggans anyway..
Janisj, Thanks for the comments re UK bit, I really have very little idea about the UK because I don’t even know anyone who has travelled there in the last few years. If I made it nine nights do you have any ideas to make it manageable? Any info would help...Thanks
Ira, Wow, someone who reads like I write! Crazy! We have done quite a few long trips (about 3 months max) with the kids but in Australia. The longest overseas travel experience with the kids was three weeks! Although, they are very good while travelling and moving from one place to another fairly frequently.
Thanks for the tip with eurostar, I have heard of it but not checked it out before, will do that shortly. We should have two medium bags and two small carryon size plus a little hand luggage. We would like to keep it smaller but we haven’t done much travelling in really cold places before so we’re expecting to need bulky stuff! Difficult for trains?
We will probably go with the car idea if it doesn’t work out hideously expensive and we will have international licences. Do you know if you can get the road permits for Austria and Switzerland on-line or with cars on lease? Will check out the sites you recommend too, thanks. Off to read your trip report for a while,
Thanks all, Cheers

I, too, am a bit exhausted. Not by the post but by the idea of the trip. With over 3 months, you still have constant rushing around leaving little time to actually enjoy anyplace. I think I would skip Lake Como and environs for this trip because of the time of year and chances of less than nice weather. Then you could add some time to London where you do not have enough. And your time in France is pretty broken up into small pieces, more moving around than seeing. I don't know what to suggest here but hope others will have ideas.

You are so lucky to have this amount of time for your trip! Have a lovely time planning and a wonderful 3 months.

As non EU citizen you can do a lease back real with Renault which works out great on price but means you need to use the car for a fair bit of the journey.

You are going to need warm clothes in Oct to Dec, which will increase your luggage requirements.

I suggest booking appartments will be a good deal rather than hotels all the time. In 12 weeks you will get sick or have arguements and having a bit more space will help

"Depart 11th London to Aberdeen arr pm 10th - hire car?"

It's 10 hours of non-stop driving, fly to Aberdeen (or even Inverness if your itinerary makes more sense that way) or take the overnight Caledonian Sleeper train to either of these places.

Alternatively you could use that time to drive over several nights to Aberdeen then fly to Paris from there thus saving the need to backtrack which will always cost at least half a day, if not a day, of travel.

But you really do need to look at your schedule as it's somewhat "ambitious".

From Paris onward you might find a car more convenient because your children will be able to establish their space in the back of the car, unlike train travel. The issue of trying to keep the car clean to avoid break-ins does not apply if you have French plates in Germany, Austria, etc. However, this assumes that you would want to see things between the points you mention. To drive straight through from Paris to Bavaria without taking time for intermediate sights diminishes the value of driving through these countries.

Hi thom,

>We will probably go with the car idea if it doesn’t work out hideously expensive and we will have international licences.

Check with www.kemwel.com, www.autoeurope.com and ww.gemut.com/.
A lease/buyback plan might be very good for you.

>Do you know if you can get the road permits for Austria and Switzerland on-line or with cars on lease?<

Yes, I do.

Any auto traveling on the major road system of Austria.

These are stickers that must be affixed to the windshield of the auto. They come on a peel- off card with a sticky substance for quick easy application. Thus can not be available on line.

This pertains to any auto rented ,leased , owned -

Before the border crossings , many gas stations sell these vignettes - many border crossing have shops exactly at the boreder

cost 7,90 euro for 10 days - longer periods available.

Mamcalice, I'm cramming just incase another trip may not happen in the future, but getting exhausted isn’t really what we will want to remember either. I’ll put some threads out for advice on the France part. I’m really not sure of what those areas are like just that I’ve been told they’re worth seeing. Maybe it would be better to drive straight to a central spot and do day trips to cover those areas?
I’m enjoying every minute of the planning (think I’m driving my friends crazy though) Thanks for the input.
Bilboburgler, thanks for the suggestions. I’ll get on to the lease people for info, sounds good.
Re: the warm clothes, we rarely see snow so will be buying some warm gear, that hopefully, are multipurpose enough to just about live in!!
The apartments sound like a good idea but I’m wondering if that will tie us to time more? I was pondering the house- swap idea for the couple of longer breaks in Italy...or even, reduce the moving around in France and make it a week in one place with day trips??
thanks again..

alanRow,
sorry I was a bit confusing there. I have planned to fly from London to Aberdeen after the few days in London. (although that is still flexible), I need to check on the prices of flying from Aberdeen to Paris instead, might help me decide! I know it’s ‘ambitions’ but it is soooo hard to cut places out!! Thanks for the comments.
Michael,
good point about the children in the car. If we do that one stretch (and I don’t really know how long it is yet), say Paris to Munchen via Strassbourg with perhaps a one night stop it just gives us more time once we get to Hohenschwangau or Mittenwald to ‘rest’ in one place. I don’t know much about the area we would travel through so I don’t know what I’m missing and this is the only place where I’m not trying to cram places in! I have it in the back of my mind that if we ever get another trip to Europe we might then do the northern parts and Scandinavia!! I’ll work on it, thanks
Ira,
Thank you for the links, it makes it so much easier. I’ll ask the lease people about the passes too, just in-case they are able to supply them.
Molker,
Much appreciated. Sad they can’t be purchased on line! Such is life. My little fear is getting on and off the major roads to buy them! Thanks for the price too, helps with the budget!

My opinion on #3 (agreeing with Ira):

The chunnel train from St Pancras station to Gare du Nord is the best way -- 2:20 min or so city to city -- and can be pretty inexpensive if you book early. We got a $47 (yes, dollars) each way fare for travel this May.

SS

wow, thanks ssander. That's encouraging!I'll have to get my maps out to work out where those stations are, Hope it's still a good price for October!

Hi I have been to Lake Como a couple times and it is incredibly beautiful! Veranna is good choice (Hotel Dulac ?). I do think that 7 days is a bit much for this area unless you need this time to completely unwind and relax.It is very peaceful with beautiful views but not much to see or do except shop and eat in Bellagio or cruise from town to town on the ferries. But then again 7 days in Lake Como can seem like Heaven.

MyDreamTrip, thanks for the feedback, I think it might be a good idea to cut a few days especially considering the weather at that time of year. Maybe if we reduce it to a few days and do a couple of ferry outings..and spend the extra days in Tuscany or in France to extend a rest time there? And strangly, a friend of mine has mentioned Hotel Dulac too! must be nice..Ciao

thomo7...

St Pancras station is very easy to get to by tube from almost anywhere in London - several lines stop there. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-tube-map.pdf

Gare du Nord, likewise, is not far from the center of Paris - with several Metro and RER lines. The RER B line is a 1-stop journey (~10 min??) to Chatelet-Les Halles on the right bank and 1 more stop (<5 min.) to St-Michel-Notre Dame on the left bank.
http://www.ratp.fr/informer/pdf/orie...x&nompdf=metro

SS

Train or car you are pondering? Well for the British bit the places you want to see are best done by car as trains will not get you there.

But for the Continent with such wide-ranging travels the train may be the best - especially since you are mainly it seems going to larger cities where cars can be a liability - large parts of city centres now off-limits to private vehicles - expensive parking - many city-centre hotels do not offer parking or if do may charge a lot for it, etc. Public transit is so cheap and great. And trains go everywhere - even to fairly remote smaller towns like Sondrio, Italy.

Anyway for loads on planning a European rail trip I always spotlight these fantastic IMO sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com - and if doing a lot of rail travel then check out the zillions of different railpass options.

Train or car you are pondering? Well for the British bit the places you want to see are best done by car as trains will not get you there.

But for the Continent with such wide-ranging travels the train may be the best - especially since you are mainly it seems going to larger cities where cars can be a liability - large parts of city centres now off-limits to private vehicles - expensive parking - many city-centre hotels do not offer parking or if do may charge a lot for it, etc. Public transit is so cheap and great. And trains go everywhere - even to fairly remote smaller towns like Sondrio, Italy.

Anyway for loads on planning a European rail trip I always spotlight these fantastic IMO sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com - and if doing a lot of rail travel then check out the zillions of different railpass options.