linds07

Hello!
I'm heading to Europe this May with my sister (we're both university students) for 3 weeks and I thought I'd ask for your advice on our itinerary. It'll be our first-time there so we'd like to see as much as possible without being too cramped for time. Please help!

Days 1-4 Paris
Days 5-6 - Cinque Terre
Days 7-9 - Florence (sidetrip to Siena)
Days 10-12 - Rome
Days 13-14 Venice
Days 15-17 Munich
Days 18-19 Reutte & Fussen (explore Neuschweinsteine & castles in Reutte)
Day 20?
Day 21 - Night train back to Paris to fly out.

Most of our travel will be done by night-trains as I think they're the most efficient for some of the longer journeys. We're buying a eurail pass for 4 countries since we'll be passing through Austria to get from Venice to Munich. I had thought about travelling to Vienna but I don't think we have the time at all (unless we scrapped Reutte & Fussen and just made the castles a day-trip out of Munich). Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

yk

You are backtracking a lot in the Italy portion. Why not fly from Paris to Rome, then make your way north? Right now you're starting in the middle, then go south, then go north again.

Also, see if you can fly OUT OF Munich instead of backtracking to Paris. Airlines offer Open-jaw (aka multi-city option) which means you fly into one city but fly out of a different one. Usually the airfare is about the same; or slightly more but worth the $ because it saves you money from backtracking and saves you a whole day of sightseeing.

The eurail pass may not be the best deal (how much is it?). Sometimes point-to-point tickets add up cheaper than railpass.

Palenque

For my style of travel it's fine - most will tell you i think it's too fast - but it depends on your style. One camp says anything less than 5 days in say Rome is daft - the other camp, which i am in says for the first time it's fine to see less of each place and more places. For lots on train travel i always refer these sites: www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - the last site lets you download their excellent European Planning & Rail Guide that has a chapter on each country with rail maps, etc.

If you want to do Fussen as a day trip from Munich that would free up one day to add to a place like Rome which has a plethora of sites rather far removed from each other - Florence and Venice have much less real estate.

linds07

Thanks for the quick responses! We got a great deal on the round-trip tickets to Paris and booked them a month ago so unfortunately we can't go open-jaw this time around. The Eurail pass costs $405 usd for 8 days of travel but you're right I should price out the individual tickets to see which is cheaper. Thanks for the links Palenque, I'll have to check out the rail guide.

Digbydog

I remember my first time as a college student in Europe, and I too wanted to see everything. I still like to pack a lot into a trip. However, if seeing everything requires you to be exhausted, it isn't worth it. Think twice about doing night trains for the whole trip. Even if you get a couchette, you just don't sleep as well on a train. There will be lots of stops that will probably interrupt your sleep. I did the college trip where I wandered around in a daze the day following a night train. You just don't enjoy your time as much.

I did Neuschwanstein as a day trip by bus from Munich. The castle is fabulous from the outside, but is empty inside. With your limited time, I think I would drop that. I have never been to Reutte.

Palenque

I only see 3 overnight trains out of 21 days. If you can sleep it's fine - i take a lot of overnight trains even at my very advanced age - wake up in a new city and save a night's hotel costs to boot.

I find overnight trains an adventure really and these overnight trains are getting more and more modern and comfy IME

NatQpens

I just bought a ryan air ticket from Milan to Paris for 10 Euro in mid-may... just a thought.

jetsetj

I like overnight train travel.

I have gone Amsterdam to Venice via Frankfurt (traveling alone sharing with 2 other women in a 3 bed compartment) and
Amsterdam to Venice via Paris ( with my sister in a 4 bed compartment).

It is an experience. We met a few interesting characters along the way.
Maybe you dont sleep really sound, but its cool to wake up in a new place.

linds07

Thanks everyone, your tips are all much appreciated!! You're right I don't see many night trains actually now that I look at how fast the trains are. Catching a plane from Paris to Milan is only $23 Euro each so that's a definite possibility to get to Cinque Terre. I would really love to see some castles so maybe we'll just make a day trip out of it (I've heard there isn't a whole lot to do in Munich besides the Dachau camp and the Hofbrauhaus). Do you think Vienna would be worth it if we had a few days extra?

yk

Vienna is one of my favorite cities, but from my experience, it's not a city that everyone likes. It is expensive, and very cultured - so if you like art, classical music, art nouveau, palaces etc then Vienna is definitely worth visiting. but if you aren't remotely interested in these things, you'd find it rather boring.

I was in Vienna for 4 days in 2006, and finally got a chance to return this month, for 5.5 days. Even with all these days in Vienna, I'm still finding that it's not enough for me to see/do everything I want in Vienna. Having said that, I am someone who can easily spend half a day or a whole day in a single art museum.

linds07

I've heard good things about Vienna and I'm a piano teacher so I'd definitely love its history of classical music. I think it might be worth it to scratch Reutte and add 2 nights in Vienna. Ack, so many decisions

yk

Well, if you like Classical music, you can spend days in Vienna visiting various composers' homes and their graves.

There's Haydn house (which is HUGE this year due to the 200th anniversary of his death), Mozart House, Beethoven House, Schubert's birthplace, Johann Strauss house, Haus der Musik. Most of these are free on Sundays, just so you know.
http://www.wienmuseum.at/english/543.asp

And you didn't say when you are planning to go on this trip. Apart from these house-museums and the Zedntralfriedhof Cemetery (where you will find graves of Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Schonberg and Mozart monument), you can catch concerts and operas in Vienna. The Vienna State Opera (Wien Staatsoper) is one of the best opera houses in the world, and the of course the Vienna Philharmonic playing at the Musikverein. Both are difficult and expensive to get tickets but they do offer standing room tickets if you are willing to line up for them and don't mind standing. Even if the Vienna Philharmonic isn't playing, you should still get a ticket to attend a concert at the Musikverein (the Grosser Saal) because it has one of the best acoustics in the world (along with Concertgebouw in Amsterdam).
http://www.staatsoper.at/Content.Node2/en/
http://www.musikverein.at/startseite.asp

artsnletters

If you're going to consider flying to Milan, why not go with yk's idea and fly from Paris all the way to Rome? Then you just keep heading north. I would return to Paris by train from Munich the afternoon before flying out.

artsnletters

Forgot to say, I think your itinerary is OK for someone who wants a quick intro, although I would favor a little more time in Rome and Venice. I wouldn't add destinations. Just take your extra day and tuck it into one of your other stops.

linds07

Thanks for the Vienna tips YK! It looks like tickets from Paris to Milan or Rome are the same price so it'd make sense to fly the longest distance to Rome. Here's an updated itinerary.

Days 1-4 Paris
Days 5-7 - Rome
Days 7-9 - Cinque Terre
Days 10-12 - Florence (sidetrip to Siena)
Days 13-14 Venice
Days 15-17 Vienna
Days 18-21 Munich
Day 21 - Night train back to Paris to fly out.

Not quite sure if that's the best way to head North in Italy (Rome-Cinque terre-Florence-Venice) but it's probably the most logical. Thanks again for all of the help!

yk

Just so you know, everytime you move from one city to another, you lose <u>at least</u> half a day. As much as I like Vienna, I'd suggest you cut that out of your trip this time, so that you can add an extra day to Rome and 2 days to Venice. There is so much to see/do in Vienna that it's not worth going all the way there for just 2.5 days. Also, from Vienna to Munich takes over 4 hours even on the ICE train. If you choose to do the night train route, you need to change trains once in the middle of the night. It just doesn't make sense to me. Save Vienna for another trip in the future. Otherwise, all you will end up doing on this trip is:

pack
check-out
go to train station/airport
check-in at hotel
unpack

Repeat

What time is your flight out of Paris on Day 22? What time does the night train from Munich arrive into Paris? Most people here recommend arriving at CDG <u>3 hours</u> before you flight departs, so if your flight home is at 11am, you need to be at CDG by 8am. So double check if the night train from Munich will get you to Paris early enough.

Mimar

It's hard from your itinerary to tell how much time you have in one place. It's better to list the nights rather than the days. 2 nights in one place means 1 full day and maybe part of the day you arrive and part of the day you leave.

Munich has quite a bit to see, the Deutsche Museum, the art museums, the Englisher Garten.

As for Ryanair flights, they're cheap, but you have to get yourselves to and from the far distant airports they use. For Paris that's Beauvais. For a little more money Easyjet has flights from Paris Orly to Rome. Orly is easy and quick to get to. Both airlines fly into Ciampino, the secondary Rome airport.

linds07

Yeah 2 1/2 days in Vienna would be pretty tight and I really don't want to be spending all of my time in transit. My flight out of paris is at 1:30pm so we'll have time to get from the train station to CDG. Thanks Mimar, after looking at Beauvais I realized it's going to add travel time (plus the flight times are less than ideal, arriving in Rome around midnight). We might decide to do the night train if the only flights available are early morning or late-night times.

Paris - 3 nights + a night train
Rome - 3 nights
Cinque Terre - 2 nights
Florence - 3 nights
Venice - 1 night + a night train
Munich - 3 nights + night train back to Paris

I'm thinking we might do a night in Reutte to see the castles if we're not doing Vienna. That leaves one more night, should I tack another day onto Rome or Venice?

Thanks again for the help!

yk

I thought you had 21 days/nights, so how come the most recent version only comes out to 18 nights?

Definitely need more time in Venice!

bobthenavigator

Better, but still too much---drop Vienna.