bilboburgler

zeppole, its not really the 4 fleur de lys.

Hotel Quattro Gigli, Montopoli, Italia. Not sure about names of restaurant (but its in the cellar)

zeppole

Okay, now we are into mille grazie territory. Mille!

Zeus45

YOU WILL NOT NEED A FULL DAY IN VENICE. lAST TIME WE WERE THERE WE ONLY STAYED FOR 3 HOURS AND WE WERE DONE SEEING WHAT WE WANTED TO SEE. WE ARE RETURNING TO VENICE IN NOVEMBER TO SHOW MY SISTER WHAT IS THERE. i KNOW WE WON'T EVEN SPEND 2 HOURS THIS TIME. USE THE REST OF THE DAY TO ENJOY THE NEXT PART OF YOUR TRIP.

jabez

"YOU WILL NOT NEED A FULL DAY IN VENICE. lAST TIME WE WERE THERE WE ONLY STAYED FOR 3 HOURS AND WE WERE DONE SEEING WHAT WE WANTED TO SEE. "

LOL,that's the first time I ever read any advice like this about Venice.

sandra3120

Jabez - hopefully, it will be the last time anyone advises other posters that Venice is only worth 2 or three hours. Clearly, that poster is uninterested in art, history or architecture which would be the compelling reasons to visit to start with. Somebody's missing loads of incredible art and architecture with just 3 hours; I'd spend that in just San Rocco alone.

Sandra

zeppole

Actually, Sandra3120, I seldom see people on Fodor's urge others to go to Venice to see the art, learn more about the city's history or study its architecture. Most people are discouraged from entering museums and churches and instead are urged to go to Venice to wander and get lost, or listen to the dueling orchestras in piazza San Marco or photograph the fish market at the Rialto. The only real arguments are about whether or not to take a gondola ride, not whether to visit a historic building or the naval museum. Many people don't need more than a couple of hours of wandering, which several million tourists prove every year. Twenty million tourists pour into Venice every year at the insistent urging of other people. The overwhelming majority of those leave the same day they arrive. It seems to satisfy more people than it doesn't.

willit

I believe if you can arrange to hire waterskis at the station, you can see Venice in less than an hour.

zeppole

Almost every one I know tells visitors to take a vaporetto down the Grand Canal as the best way to see Venice. I think that's about a half hour each way.

, I read a lot of trip reports here on Fodor's, and when it comes to Venice, the people who go there for longer than a few hours or a day seem more interested in the fantasy of being immersed in a pre-modern city than understanding the history and art of the city. Even people who spend days there don't report having paid much attention to the imperial history of the city, or Napoleon, or gone to the Accademia. You read the same things about Lucca and the val d'Orcia. People are looking for "magical" experiences, outside of time and history. The same people go to Pisa -- truly rich in architectural splendor and important history -- and they spit with disgust and deride it as barely worth a half hour.

I've yet to be convinced the boosters of staying in Venice for more than a few hours are lovers of art, history and architecture. I think they are lovers of fantasy. Not everybody needs to spend a lot of time doing that.

TDudette

zeus45, yours is just the type of advice that makes me nuts. Yes, indeedy Venice is a visual feast but 3 hours for you does not mean it's enough for others. The scuolas, churches, doge's palace, islands to name a few take days-not hours. We stayed in Venice for a week and still had to return.

lacohn, stick to your itinerary. Although, you could take a bus trip to Siena from Florence if time permits.

mamcalice

Venice is a wonderful city. I wish posters on this forum did not find it necessary to expound on traveller's motives for choosing particular destinations. Many, including myself, have visited Venice (four times) because it is a fantastic city, full of beauty, and unique. Yes, it is great to wander the canals and take in the ambiance and to ride the Grand Canal on the Vaporetto. That is a way to see the architecture and commerce of the city very well. But it is also important and exciting to see St. Marks both inside and outside; to see the Doges Palace - take a tour and discover its amazing art; visit the Acccademia, the churches with their Titians and Tintorettos; and the scuolas with their incredible treasures. And don't miss the Rialto bridge and the market with the most incredible array of fish I have ever seen.

You cannot see Venice in 2 hours or in two days. Just because hoard

Lots of people stop briefly while on a cruise doesn't mean that is the way to see Venice. It's not and I urge you to spend as much time as you can there. There is so much to see. Visit one of the islands and if you run out of things to do, climb the astonishing Scala dil Bovolo, a hidden tower from which you can get a wonderful view of the city.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your trip.

jubilada

I live in a tiny town in Western Massachusetts , very quiet, one very tiny historical museum, and I don't think two hours is enough time to see my town. Especially if you want to get a sense of its history or its people. So I'm sure Venice is "worth " at least a few days.

zeppole

I wish people on this forum would quit bashing cruise tourism -- and I wish most people would admit that they spend only 2 hours touring many Italian locations and advising others to do the same. I'd be stunned if most people on Fodor's have ever spent more than 2 hours touring Padova (I'm not counting lunch) or even Arezzo or Pisa -- so who are they to lecture about how long to spend in Venice? After tearing their hair out that someone posted "go to Venice for a few hours" in the next breath they say "go to Siena for a few hours by bus from Florence."

And then tell lacohn to stick to her itinerary -- I hope she's stopped listening by now. WHy if she wants to go potter about Montepulciano should she be pottering about Venice -- except you Venice groupies can't stand the thought of somebody liking other places better?

Yes, students of European art and history will find many reasons to spend more than 3 hours in Venice. But for heaven's sake, the number of students of European art and history going to Italy these days is tiny! Can't other people just find a way to have a fantastic vacation without being chained to Venice?

jubilada

Zeppole: To the extent that you are addressing my post, I wasn't bashing anything or being a groupie. I was addressing the idea of what kind of time a place, anyplace, is "worth". I appreciate that people have different travel styles, many people would find the priorities in my upcoming Spain itinerary odd ( which is part of why I haven't posted it); I always hope people can be encouraged to decide for themselves how to allocate their travel time based on their own interests and not some arbitrary plan or others' idea of the value of a locale.

zeppole

But that's what they're here for! They are asking people how much time they should alot to each place. That's what lacohn was asking advice about.

We can all agree to say that it's a totally stupid question since there is no one "right" answer and therefore refuse to answer it about ANY destination

or

We can use our little noggins to figure out how to help people who ask the question, even though it is not easy.

What I can't stand is this constant refrain that some sort of crime is being committed if you blow through Venice, especially if you didn't find it interesting, and that somehow one is an inferior person who drives other people nuts if you come right out and say so. This only applies to Venice, mind you. People are quite free to say they couldn't wait to get out of Florence, or they won't be going back to Rome any time soon, or Modena "isn't worth it." (Or "forget Chiusi" -- !!!)

As I have posted before, I owe all my present happiness to some anonymous poster somewhere on the internet who talked about how much liked they disliked the crowds of tourists in le Cinque Terre. I had been planning to go there but based on that single warning, I picked another town up the coast instead to go hiking. I visiited le Cinque Terre. I hated it. I now live in the other town. It's wonderful.

Please quit trying to shut down comments like "you only need a couple of hours for Venice." It might ring a bell with somebody you don't know. They might take the days they otherwise would have WASTED in Venice and use them to visit someplace you've never heard of but which opens their eyes to a whole new life.

Cheer for Venice all you want -- or anyplace. But quit trying to shut up other people's reactions. They are just as valid as yours.

jubilada

I can't get across to you Zeppole what I mean. I am certainly not trying to shut anyone up. I very much appreciate many of your contributions. Sigh.

mamcalice

Jubilada, I think Zeppole is upset about my point of view. I don't know as much about Italy as he does so I probably shouldn't express a view on a subject he is posting on. I'll learn eventually.

sandra3120

Mamcalice and Jubilada - I've been in your position before and mistaken for a "Venice at all costs cheerleader", which I'm not. As Zeppole and Franco both have pointed out, and as many of us already know, there are many places all around the world that are fascinating travel destinations. I am not saying Venice is a must-see, I am simply saying that spending two hours there IS a waste. The traveler will only see the shops on the ground floors of the buildings and come away with no notion of what Venice is, has been and its many treasures. So to travel so far north to spend two hours doing that wouldn't seem a great use of time in those crammed 10 days. Once again, when people ask for advice, they will be given opinions that vary from person to person based on their own likes and dislikes.

As for bashing the cruise trade, I do believe that it's doing tremendous harm to a very fragile city: it permits multiple thousands at a time, for a very few hours, to overrun the city and its services without actually seeing the city because of the lack of time. As Zeppole pointed out, everyone has an opinion, and we are all freely expressing one in response to the original poster's question. Just because I think it's a shame to visit a place without wandering through its history, art and architecture and having an understanding of its function throughout history doesn't mean the next person will give a damn about any of that. But I'd like to think I'm free to state that I think it's a shame if they don't without being dismissed as a cheerleader or one of the thousands of "typical" tourists who don't care about the venue they are visiting and are only interested in shopping and encouraging others to do the same.

Perhaps all of our differing opinions will allow the original poster to make up her mind regarding what she actually would enjoy to see as Zeppole was so able to do regarding Cinque Terre ultimately deciding to choose another place to live. Isn't that the point? Weren't opinions and reasons for them being solicited to help the original poster decide?

lacohn

If anyone cares at this point, here's what we finally decided to do and my impressions. I didn't see most of this discussion prior to our trip, and I'm reading it for the first time just now!

We did not change our itinerary. On day 4, we left Lucca early in the morning and drove towards Montepulciano. We got there about 10:30, spent a few hours there, then drove towards Pienza. The scenic drive between these towns and around this area was probably one of the highlights of our trip. Every turn just looked like a postcard--we just had to stop and keep taking pictures. However, we did not have much time, because we needed to head back up to Florence to drop off our rental car at the airport and get into the city to check in at our hotel, etc. Montepulciano was gorgeous, so was Pienza (but everything was already closed for the afternoon by the time we arrived in Pienza). We loved Florence of course, but I definitely could have used one less day in Venice. We did enjoy many areas of Venice, toured the Doge Palace (amazing), Accademia, Frari Church, St. Rocco, and walked on the waterfront area straight behind the Accademia at night, which was lovely and totally devoid of any tourists. However, the enormous crowds of tourists (especially during the day), and the kind of tacky touristy area especially around St. Marks kind of detracted from the city's beauty, in my opinion. We are from Orlando, and that area was just WAY too reminiscent of Disneyworld for us in many ways! My husband is glad we did what we did, but I now am longing for another trip to Italy when we can spend more time in the Siena area and the surrounding towns. Oh well, next time! Thanks to all of your for all your kind advice! This forum was definitely my primary source of information that I relied upon when planning our trip, and I'm so grateful to all that took the time to help us.

TDudette

lacohn: I'm so glad you had a great trip. I can see what you mean about visual comparisons but no one actually lived in the Disneyland buildings, eh? LOL. Did you take the day trip to Verona? Longing to go back to Italy happens a lot-welcome to the club.

Zeppole: your comment including ".... except you Venice groupies can't stand the thought of somebody liking other places better?" was unnecessary.

sandra3120: I do think Venice is a must-see if someone is going to Italy for what may be the only time. (You gave me a mind picture of a tour ship disgorging tourist ants who overrun the city, eat it up and return. Hopefully, the ants are adding some time before or after the tour.)

lacohn

TDudette: I totally agree with your sentiment that Venice is a must-see if you are not going to Italy again. I'd always wondered what it looked and felt like, and I'm really glad we got a chance to experience it--definitely a city with a lot of contrasts! And we really got a fantastic sense of the rich history of the city, along with an appreciation for Venetian art. And our gondola ride was definitely a cool way to see Venice from a different perspective!

No, sadly we didn't make it to Verona--my husband was kind of tired of traveling around at that point and wanted to stay still in Venice.