You will have no language problems in Paris - 3 or 4 words of French (merci - thank you, s'il vous plaît - please, basics like that) - is all you really need. Sure, being fluent in French would be great, but 95% of visitors aren't.

Do your kids understand they will be up and out of bed VERY early in the AM while on tour? That they likely won't have a choice of where to sit on the bus (the guide will shift people every day so no one gets mad about a 'bad' seat)? You really (REALLY) don't want to take most of your meals w/ the 40+ other passengers at places that take coach tour groups.

In London -- the only places you will find any sort of lines, or any to worry about, are the Tower of London and Westminster Abbey. In Paris --the Louvre and Musee d'Orsay. But there are ways to avoid all of those queues.

In any case, get the girls involved in anticipating the trip. Trvel is educational! The public library often has travel videos and guidebooks. Or buy a guidebook or two. Rick Steves' books might be reassuring for neophyte travelers.

Look at www.walks.com. They have a wonderfully wide choice of London walking tours. And there are similar tours in Paris. Not to speak of Segue tours and bicycle tours.

But independent travel planning takes time. And hours here on Fodors . If you don't have that time or just don't feel comfortable doing the planning, a tour is a perfectly acceptable compromise. Those of us here at Fodors lean heavily toward independent travel. But, like many of us, my first trip to Europe was a tour.

One last thought: this trip might work better in reverse, starting in Paris and ending with the independent segment, once you've become more comfortable.

Oh, and don't worry about not speaking French.

Oh, Janisj ... had not thought of that. One kid is an early riser (5am year-round without an alarm clock), the other not so much. You're right, that could be a killjoy for her.

OK, you're persuading me away from the tour idea altogether. I'll start a new thread.

Thank you, everyone! Merci!

Kandace

What exactly does the tour you're looking at include? The Globus tour I checked didn't seem to take you IN anywhere, so it wouldn't help with lines. And as janisj says, there are ways around the lines. And with 13 y.o.s you might want to spend more time walking outside rather than inside.

When I first went to Paris a long, long time ago, not speaking French was a bit of a problem. Not any more. You do need a half dozen polite words, so that you can say Bonjour Madame/Monsieur when entering a shop, for example, but any guidebook will have those.

And if you're worried about being obnoxious (and since you're worried, you won't be!) a large tour group is far more obnoxious than almost all independents.

If you're prepared to do some research, you can plan a much better time for yourselves in London and Paris than you'd get from any packaged tour. That's where this forum comes in- we LOVE planning itineraries and this is where we come when we need help planning our own

I can understand feeling intimidated if you aren't used to big cities, or feeling unsure because you don't speak French- however, it would be a shame if you allowed those feelings to put a damper on your trip. London and Paris receive millions of tourists a year from all over the world. Most of them are a lot stupider and less culturally sensitive than you, and they muddle through just fine. You and your family will have no problem seeing London and Paris independently, as long as you do your homework beforehand.

I would have thought that an organized tour would be anathema to two 13 yr olds!
They might want to shop (or preferably window shop in Paris and London ) and not trail around with old people. What's the average age of people on the tour you're taking?

Agree with everyone else. London and Paris are easy to plan & navigate solo.

OOps I see you're convinced! Good luck with your independent plans!

Kandace,

We (DH, DS, mother in law and I) went to London and Paris on our own two years ago. I too was at first a bit hesitant about Paris because I was the only one in the family who knew a few and I mean a few words in French. However, I went to the local library and took out Pimsler French learning tapes a few months prior to our trip.

It worked wonders. I learned enough to ask for basic information such as for a pitcher of water, for the bill etc. The most important phrase I learned was asking in French if they understood English. As long as we made the attempt to speak in French everyone always responded in English and were very pleasant.

Paris is also very easy to navigate by metro and bus as well as by walking.

What else is there besides the Eiffel Tower? Tons of things really. The Musee de Orsay is in a converted train station and holds magnificent art work. The building is worth seeing for the architecture alone never mind the impressionist paintings inside.

The Louvre is well worth plenty of time. Climbing to the top of the Arc de Triomphe is fun and affords a beautiful view of Paris including a view of the Eiffel Tower. There are tons of parks to meander about, Luxembourg Gardens being just one. We didn't get to do this but with 13 year old girls you can spend time window shopping. Saint Chappelle with its gorgeous stained glass. I could go on and on.

I found on bus tours you drive by places and don't really get to go in to explore only but a very few. You do get to see gift shops on bus tours and you have to stick to their preset time schedule. Independent travel affords you time to stop and spend as much or as little time as you and your family wants to spend at a particular venue.

Hi - Thirsk is only a few miles up the road from my village but it sounds as if you are pretty much sorted with this part of your trip. But let me know if you think I can help.
And do try and visit the Ritz in Thirsk - a tiny, independent cinema where you'll be the only ones who aren't locals!
http://www.btinternet.com/~denison/ritz.htm
And if you DO have some spare time in the Thirsk area your girls would love this place (note you need to buy tickets in advance).
http://www.theforbiddencorner.co.uk/

This thread appeared to me to be one of those doomed to ask-question-get-answers-reply-with-reasons-why-not. I'm glad to see at least a semblance of interest now in the OP's rebuttal.

I would suggest that if 2 of the party are adventuresome and 2 are not, maybe the 2 that are could go forth with some confidence that hardly any tourists die or are lost forever in Paris and the other 2 will follow. I try not to listen to dire warnings about a place ("I've heard less-than-encouraging things about Paris...") unless they come from a good source. Casual visitors to a place are rarely that. There must be a reason so many of us love that particular city.

i might agree about doing Paris first, except that your family [at least the less adventurous part of it] will feel happier if its first taste of things foreign is in a country where they have a fighting chance of understanding a bit of the language - but you do know that they speak funny up north, don't you?

the english you hear in Manchester and Thirsk might not be quite what you are expecting!

I agree with annhig. My sister & I took a trip some years ago to Edinburgh, London & Paris in that order, her first time out of the US in a place you couldn't drive to. Edinburgh must have felt like another planet to her and she was terribly homesick. London was better. But she could not cope with Paris at all and paid to change her ticket and go home early. My point is this, starting with England may be a good idea because if the less adventurous in the family hate Paris, as my sister did, it won't taint England as much and they'll be closer in time to being home.

@MmePerdu - that's very interesting. In what respects did Edinburgh feel like another planet? And what did she hate about Paris?

Well, I guess, I'm from another planet, because I don't see this as any kind of "doomed" thread.

It appears that people are being very honest and giving honest opinions. One of which is to try and divest the OP of her unknown fear of "things French". She seems very concerned that she doesn't speak French and that's the reason for shortening her visit to France!

There's nothing to fear about not knowing a foreign language. I've been to plenty of places where I didn't speak a word of the language and couldn't even guess at what might be acceptable - Afghanistan as an example. So, posters are trying to tell the OP not to give in to her fears and to enjoy France. I don't see that as a "doom" scenario.

BTW, can anyone please tell me what the name of this other planet is that I'm living on?

Thursdaysd, regarding Edinburgh, I had been in charge of choosing our accommodation. I like old things so got us a little twin room above a pub in Grassmarket. I loved it but she thought it was awful - too small, too "foreign", charm notwithstanding. Bad start, it really set off her first bout of homesickness for family and San Diego where she lives. She was in charge of London accommodations and friends of hers said stay in Ealing, more for your money and it was true. But no charm, far from everything, I hated it. However, it was more like US motels so she was relatively happy. Then Paris, my one-time home, excited to show my little sister. Doom. Obviously too foreign, comments about the food, "aren't there any delis", this after we'd just left a beautiful charcuterie with take-out for our dinner. After a very nice meal of chicken in a nice sauce, too expensive, "it was only chicken". All in all it was a disaster and I was more relieved than she when she timidly asked if I'd be mad if she went home a week early. I felt so bad for her but also much relieved.

Clearly, travel is not for everyone and there's no shame whatsoever in loving to be home.

If you're not keen on Paris once you get there, you might do a day trip to Reims (45 mins. from Paris on the TGV) and visit a champagne cellar and see the amazing cathedral there. But Paris is surprisingly addictive and wonderful and the metro is really easy to use. Get yourself a good tour guide to Paris -- Fodor's is quite good -- and check it out. There are all kinds of things to do and lots of day trips to take if the city seems too much.

@MmePerdu - thanks for the answer. I was wondering if there were lessons for the OP. I agree that it's good we don't all like the same things, but it sounds like different accommodations could have improved the trip. Maybe a more gradual immersion?

Another good day trip from Paris is Chartres, I went for the cathedral (especially the stained glass), but found that the town was worth seeing too. And I was interested in how abruptly and quickly the city ended and the countryside began.

Thank you, everyone. Loving the sharing of information here!

You have me thinking in a different direction than I originally thought. Personally, I'd rather go the independent route, but thought it would be easier for the other half of the family to know what's mapped out all in advance. Had not considered all the ramifications of it, though.

We don't really like being tied down and never seem to match up with other people's timeframes, now that I think about it. I'm still a bit hesitant about France -- in part because I *do* know other languages and have understood what "natives" say about non-English-speaking people, even when they are being very nice to tourists' faces -- but heck, it's only March. We're not leaving for another six months, at least. The Pimsleur suggestion was a good one; I pick up languages easily and can buckle down and learn enough to scrape by.

Thanks again ... will mull over your great suggestions and start another, more open-minded thread.

Kandace

Thursdaysd, I don't believe different accommodations would have made a difference or at least enough difference. The Paris hotel was the one we chose by consensus and, while she liked it, it didn't seem to help. I think it was a simple case of culture shock at every turn. Too much all at once and it hadn't occurred to either of us that it might be the case. She has since traveled to Europe and the UK with her husband and enjoyed herself, more a bit of home on her arm than I could be for her.

Kandace, have you ever had respect for people here who would demean anyone who didn't speak English? So what, if in France, someone thinks unkindly of people who don't speak French....you'll likely never see them again.

Go and enjoy, realizing that most people will not expect you to be fluent in French.