I am now in the throes of indecision. Perhaps cycling isn't such a good option (especially in October). So, I'm kind of back to square one. I'm figuring out also that while Oct. is one of the recommended months for a visit to Sicily, the major drawback is that this is a month of transitional weather, so there can be big problems with potentially heavy rains. This factor hinders the possibility of making plans ahead of time thinking there will be nice weather for outdoor activities.

If we don't do the cycling, I am perhaps thinking of spending our first 2 1/2 days (3 nights) in Catania. We could walk around to see the sights, visit the fish market, and for a day trip take the circumnavigator train around Etna.

From Catania we could take public transportation to Ortigia and have 3 or 4 nights there. Pick up a rental car after we are done with our stay and start our driving itinerary (haven't quite figured that one out yet).

We could possibly end with some time in Cefalu so we could visit the Madonie area to do some hiking and possibly (weather cooperating) the Aeolian islands from there.

One of the issues for us is that we do not want to do a trip where we only drive around in the car to just see all of the tourist sites. We prefer to mix that up with some active times. And, we are willing to forego seeing some things so we can do some of these more low key activities that just give us quality time in a smaller area.

It is interesting that I have two completely different recommendations for lodging areas. I've spent quite a lot of online looking for apartments in Palermo. I contacted Visit Palermo, but I don't think they have quite what I am looking for for our dates.

I keep hearing from so many people that we should try to find an apartment in the Politeama area, yet Sandra you are saying that you really liked the Capo market area. Can you tell me why?

We are not late nightlife people and won't be going out to bars, but we want to be in an area where we would feel safe walking home say at 10:00 pm. And, we want a more neighborhood feel with smaller shops to stop in for food purchases.

Thanks to all for your wonderful comments.

I often stay outside of the areas most recommended for tourists in Europen cities. In fact, now that I think about it, I almost invariably prefer it. In London I stay on the South Bank, in Paris I stay in the 2d, in Rome I stay around Largo Torre Argentina, in Lisbon I wished I had not listened to advice to stay in Baixa/Chiado. But something I typically do whenever I go to a city where I've never been before is get a tourist map of the city and put an X on everything I know I definitely want to see and -- equally important! -- I put an X on restaurants where I hope to eat dinner. Then I look for lodgings that suit my needs in areas walkable to those X's. Then I read reviews.

Can't really comment on the cycling aspect on your trip except to say that i would think in October that could be arranged fairly easily on short notice, once you've seen a short-term weather forecast, without a lot of advance notice to people who rent bikes.

However, I would think twice about a trip to the Aeolian islands in October. First, I'm not sure you'll find convenient ways to get there (could be wrong about that). Second, weather is changeable enough that I would not want to get on a distant island and disover I couldn't get off for a day or two.

While I enjoyed my stay in Ortygia, it is boutiqued for tourism, and it is a very small spit of land, so if you are thinking you like long walks and getting a feel for the texture of a foreign destination, I think you might prefer limiting your Ortygia stay -- especially if you are not interested in the visiting museums and ruins in Siracusa -- in favor of more adventurous touring.

But overall, I very, very rarely hear anybody return from Sicily saying: "Was that all there is? What's everybody raving about?" Only beaches seem to disappoint some people, and some people recoil at the tourist onslaught in Taormina. Obviously there are disagreements about particular towns -- some people like Noto better than Ragusa, or Cefalu better than Erice blah blah. But even people who would have done a few things differently had they "known beforehand" still come back from Sicily very very impressed by the land, the culture, the food, the sights, the people. It's all a big discovery and they would have liked to have stayed longer. Only the most prejudiced package tourist types complain it isn't set up like a resort.

So I think you are right to structure the trip, not for sightseeing according to other's recommendations, or where to stay, but to how you've learned you like to travel. If you need to mix it up with hikes and bikes, and would rather not interact too much with the tourist areas, don't be afraid to go your own way. You're asking the right questions about safety, and I think Tripadvisor is a reliable forum for answers (people are here as well, but there are no Sicilian residents who post here).

I think if you build some wiggle room into your trip, to account for weather and your own moods, you can adjust along the way and have a fun, free-wheeling trip full of great surprises.

This is where I stayed in Palermo. It was twice as much space as I needed, but in January it was only 100e per night and it was irresistable. It was filled with historic Sicilian plasterwork and museum-quality musical instruments, and it directly overlooked the Capo market, above a bakery, and I woke up every morning to the sing-songing of the vendors. I was fascinated by the operations of the market. It was a reasonably good location for restaurants and sightseeing the famous sights -- but we were there for a week, so any extra steps didn't bother us.

I am not recommending this apartment, but when I visited the 2 teatro areas, I was instantly struck by how many hotels and tourist restaurants were there, and the international oriented-shops. They are in a nice part of Palermo that exemplifies that Palermo is a sophisticated modern city, with its own historic style, but I was more excited to be in the odder part of town.

ooops-- forgot to include the link to the apartment

http://www.visitpalermo.it/casa_styl...d_casa=4&hl=en

Sandra--The more I read your responses, the more I think that we are pretty much exactly the same type of travelers. We too often shun the most typical touristy parts of cities preferring something a bit more authentic. And, I know our itineraries are never the same as those most people plan, but they suit us to a T.

The apartment you stayed in in Palermo looks exactly like something we would love. Are there lots of flights of stairs up to get there? When I contacted the agency with general questions about availability for our dates that one was not mentioned, but I also said we did not want to drag our suitcases up lots of stairs. And, that does not have a balcony we could sit on, correct? We'd prefer to have a small balcony or terrace.

And, your comments about the teatro areas describe the more sterile environments we typically prefer to stay away from--we aren't shoppers, if we were we wouldn't patronize international chain stores, we don't like tourist restaurants etc. We much prefer real, smaller, local neighborhoods where we can walk about and just enjoy everyday life and where there are small bakeries, grocers, take-out places etc.

You've been a lot of help in this.

There is one almost comic flight of narrow steep stairs going straight up from the groundfloor door entryway to the first floor. In fact, the family still lives above the apartment in the rest of the building, and I believe the very aged nonna simply never leaves the building. (That is not unusual in Italy.)

The balcony for the apartment may not someplace where you can sit, in my recollection, but I was there in January, without any interest in sitting outside, so I just can't remember if it was wide enough for a chair and tables. It might have been. I did stand there and enjoy all the activity of the market and the smells of the bakery, all of which is directly below.

But I wouldn't want to kid you about the stairs if you are lugging heavy suitcases. I got a typical carryon roller bag up the stairs without any help, but couldn't have managed anything heavier. Also, once the market shuts at the end of the day, it is really abandoned except for a lot of huge cats and then ultimately the street cleaners. It's only a few minutes walk to a main throroughfare from there, and I even walked through dark empty alleys in the other direction more than once, but when we first arrived after dark in a taxi, I was wondering what we'd gotten ourselves into!

I liked the area around the via Divisi in Palermo, near the piazza Rivoluzione and Osteria dei Vespiri, which you can see is only a 15 minute walk from Teatro Massimo. I wouldn't call the teatro areas "sterile" -- they are an important part of Palermo, but they just have an overload of hotels.

I just did a quick search on booking.com and spotted this apartment in my preferred area and it gets nice reviews. Not recommending it because I really know nothing about it other than what I'm seeing here, just thought you might want to check it out. It's called "Guascone if the long link doesn't work, on the vicolo Guascone.

http://www.booking.com/hotel/it/guas...1&#tab-reviews

I had a further thought about the area of the "teatri", which is that they are not streile but very reminiscent of streets in other European cities where it used to be that every foreigner stayed there and never stayed in any other part of town -- like the way travelers with any money only used to stay around the via Veneto in Rome or in the 8th arr. in Paris. If you didn't have money you stayed at the hotels near the train station or -- if you were very independent -- maybe a rented room or a pension in a bohemian quarter. So around the "teatri" is like that, and many local Sicilians (especially the young) will gravitate toward in the evenings, sort of like how young people still gravitate to Times Square or the Champs-Elyesees (but Palermo does not have the super-entertainment aspects of those places, or the crowds). In other European cities tourists have long ago branched out, and it is hard to keep up with which neighborhood in Rome or Paris is now trendiest. Palermo hasn't quite caught on yet in that way with most tourists -- and still there aren't a lot of tourist lodgings away from the "teatri" zone and the waterfront (popular I think with cruise shippers but really inconvenient for sightseeing, since most residents over centuries thought it bad for your health to hang out near the water).

Anyway, if you find an apartment with an elevator and a terrace in the theatre districts with a great price and it ticks all the other boxes, you really do not need to walk far at all to lose the feeling you are in the Good Housekeeping Approved area for tourissts. It's just a few blocks of hotels (and besides, that area is quite convenient to the airport buses, which is another draw for most people)

I think this is might be one that Visit Palermo had available that they suggested might meet my criteria. I'll take another look at it now that you tell me it is a good location. After hearing so much about the Politama area, I had kind of disregarded this one as not being in the best location. I am assuming in this location I could find lots of little neighborhood shops for food etc. While we definitely plan to eat out, we also really enjoy picking up food at local shops/markets and spending some time eating in our own little space.

Thanks much.

I stayed in that area in 2007, so everything could have changed since then, but I would be remiss if I didn't note that it was a <b>decidedly</b> dodgy area at that time. Despite lots of advice to the contrary, I did venture out at night, but always with a frisson of fear. And one night, the police stopped me and insisted on escorting me back to my hotel because, they said, they could not, in good conscience, let me walk in that neighborhood after dark as a solo female. I actually declined the ride, so they drove right beside me for several blocks until I was safely inside the door to my lodging. Again, the area could easily have change since I was there.

hmmmmmmmm Definitely reconsidering now. I think I have read that the area is gentrifying but I don't know how long this has been taking place.

It may be fine now. It was certainly a convenient location, and I managed it -- but with some decidedly uncomfortable moments.

That's why I said that if I ever return to Palermo, I would look for lodging nearer the Teatro Massimo or Teatro Politeama-Garibaldi. I don't usually stay in areas that are dominated by tourists, but when I was in Sicily, it was still full of local color (families on their passagiata, an evening market, children playing in the streets, even a few bocce games in sight). At this point in my life, I'd prefer to find a room in an area with a lot of tourists that allows me to walk around at night in a setting that is enjoyed by locals, than to feel that I can't walk about or must take a taxi to go out to dinner. JMO.

Again, the area could have changed. I would just hate to hold my tongue given my admittedly dated experiences there.

I will put in another good word for Sky Sleeping (was a B&B, now a guesthouse), or at least for the area. It felt like a village within the city to me, and I had no qualms about walking alone at night. Of course, that was a few years back, and as kja says, areas change. I liked my modern room (I had been in Sicily a while by then), and the breakfast terrace.

I am certain that I have a higher tolerance for "dodgy" in Italian cities than most visitors do, since I live in Italy, and I don't believe that people should ever stay outside their comfort zone. I never do when I visit America. I am not quite clear where kja stayed in Palermo in 2007, but the vicolo Guascone apartment is less than 5 minute walk to Osteria dei Vespiri and the modern art musuem, and there is no way you would need to take a taxi to get to a restaurant, even if you wanted to eat a different restaurant.

Thursdaysd is talking about a different neighborhood, which is more in the direction of the Capo market where I stayed, and I agree with the description it was its own place, with much of the surrounding area feeling like Trastevere or Testaccio (if you know those places).

But I believe the bottom line is that the Teatro areas of Palermo are the ONLY areas of central Palermo where most visitors will not think it is "dodgy". None of the rest of Palermo is set up for tourists or brightly lit. It used to be that all the guidebooks recommended staying 5 minutes outside the city, in Mondello, and taking the shuttle in.

I cannot emphasize too strongly that you will not enjoy your stay in Palermo if you feel uneasy about your neighborhood at night, and most visitors who stay in the Teatro areas feel reassured by the surroundings and leave saying that they can't see any reason why anyone would describe Palermo as unsafe. The rest of Palermo is quite dark at night, no visible hotels -- although there are plenty of restaurants.

Also, just to be clear, the lodgings that I have been suggesting to you and to people along the via Divisi or the vicolo Guascone are not in La Kalsa, but on the other side of the via Roma. Like I said, since kja didn't say which street she stayed on, I'm not clear where she had her nervous-making experiences.

I stayed at the Hotel Sicilia, Via Divisi, 99.

I'm not sure if this helps, but I made a reservation at Palazzo Pantaleo for May, which was highly recommended by Vagabonda on TA. I made the booking through hotels.com as their website seems ancient and it's not on booking.com.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...mo_Sicily.html

Thanks. I see that the Hotel Sicilia appears to have closed in 2012, so no current reviews, but the ones that still exist on TripAdvisor going back through time have loads of complaints about bedbugs, but everyone really likes the location, and no mention of safety issues -- until a review from 2007 where "baileyusa" says the location is "nasty" and "dangerous."

HOWEVER, the next 2007 review is from "KJA3" (WashingtonDC). It says:

"The Hotel Sicilia is in a great location, just minutes by foot from Quattro Canti and within easy walking distance of Palermo's central train station. At an intersection with a major street (Via Maqueda), I felt quite safe in the area, even at night. The Hotel Sicilia is not a full-service hotel, nor does it pretend to be. It offers clean, comfortable rooms at a budget rate. Common areas held some pleasing touches, and the breakfast area was bright and airy. The desk staff spoke at least some English and were very helpful.

My nicely-sized single room faced an inner courtyard that also holds the stairway to the hotel's entrance, so although I did not hear any noise from the street, I did occasionally hear other guests when they
rang the bell for entry or spoke to one another while on the stairs. Some rooms face a different interior courtyard; those rooms might be even quieter. The entrance to the hotel is up a long flight of stairs, so keep that in mind if mobility or luggage would make that difficult.

Liked — location
Disliked — the bathroom sink in my room didn't have a drain stopper
Stayed May 2007, traveled solo

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...o_Sicily.html#

Then there is only one more 2007 review in English, where the neighborhood is described as "sketchy".


No comment on the above old reviews, but will say that I would feel terrible if someone took my recommendation for a neighborhood in Palermo and had a bad experience. Again, I reiterate that I stayed in the Capo market, not on the via Divisi, although I did walk to that area twice for dinner and back again, in January after dark. I was not a solo traveler, and again, I do things others wouldn't....

"Thursdaysd is talking about a different neighborhood, which is more in the direction of the Capo market where I stayed, and I agree with the description it was its own place, with much of the surrounding area feeling like Trastevere or Testaccio (if you know those places)."

We rented an apartment for a week in Trastevere, and it is exactly the type of area we are looking for--real feel, real people, local shops and restaurants. And, we still do want to feel safe when out walking after dark. So, please tell me exactly where this area is with the real neighborhood feel is. We are looking for an apartment rather than a B&B or hotel so our search process is a bit different.

Totally different topic now. Ortigia--2.5 or 3.5 days. It is it a place that has become so overwhelmed with the tourist industry that every other building is a tourist lodging, boutique, gift shop, tourist restaurant? Or is this just certain areas with most of the place remaining more authentic?

(As a point of comparison: Venice and Casrcassone. Despite the fact that a lot of Venice is nothing but tourism, we adore Venice away from the typical tourist centers and spent days just wandering there since we especially like waterfront locations. We visited Carcassone twice and it does absolutely zero for us because it is not a living city.)

I think from Ortigia we intend to move on to Scicli as a base (with a car) for a couple days.

I appreciate the comments.

Ortyigia is more in the feeling of Venice than Carcassonne , and even then nowhere near as tourist-ridden as either. If you have been to well-preserved Italian towns with a beautiful church or castle or piazza -- like Orvieto or Trento or Lucca, that is more like it - and even then, Ortygia gets fewer tourists (unless the cruise ships now stop there, and even so, you are likely to see only some knots of tour groups around the few "sights"). It's just that having been "discovered", some areas are noticeably commercialized and aimed at tourism -- whereas when you get to Scicli, you will of course find some postcard shops, beach bags with octopi on them and menus "tipici", because Italian vacationers head there, but otherwise, you'll be a stranger in a strange land.

Thursdays's hotel Skysleeping is findable on a google map, and it is about a 10 minute walk from where I stayed in the heart of the Monte di Pieta, near the piazza St. Anna al Capo. You can see on the map that the Monte di Pieta area is very dense with alleyways, so you might want to keep to the wider streets if you look in that area. Also, you can see on a google map that Vagabonda's recommended Palazzo al Pantaleo is not far from Thursdays's hotel either, so if you triangulate that area, maybe that is where you would enjoy being.

Understand that most of Palermo has an untouristy economy, even less so than Trastevere, with local shops, eateries, etc. As for "feeling safe," as you know, feelings of not being safe can be subjective. I actually felt I might be unsafe at one moment in Trastevere when I walked into alleyway transaction that also caused an Italian who was walking ahead of me to do a double take and quicken his step. A very long time ago, a regular poster on Fodor's reported she had been robbed at knifepoint in the lobby of the Hotel Joli in the Politeama neighborhood, yet she continued to recommend the hotel and the area. Interestingly (perhaps), the only prostitutes I saw in Palermo were around the Politeama/Teatro Massimo hotels. Maybe they felt safer there -- or maybe there just wasn't enough business in my Capo market area once the market had closed up for the night!

Walking around all parts of Palermo, day and night, I never had the feeling I was as safe as I would be in Venice. I was always looking and watching, and prepared to turn around and go the other way if I didn't like the vibe where I was. My husband suggested an alternate route at night rather than through the darkened market streets. We walked around both theaters in the evening, and always assumed there might be pickpockets or bag snatchers about. (In January, I never car a purse in Italian cities. I put things in pockets under my coat.)

Don't know what to say. I wouldn't hesitate to go back to Palermo again. If I were going alone, my concern as a solo female walking around at night would be getting mistake for a prostitute (but that happens in NYC too).

We didn't stay in Ortygia, but visited for a day. It was a pleasant area and seemed very touristy from what we saw. However, you will find lots of Greek & Roman structures including the Temple of Apollo in Ortygia which is probably the oldest Greek temple in Sicily. There is the archeological site in modern Siracusa. Depending upon your interests you could easily spend a day exploring what Ortygia has to offer and another visting the archaeology site. For me 3.5 days would be too long.

Just a comment on the discussion of the neighborhoods. Much of the the discussion is so subjective. Trastevere is mentioned as a neighborhood that you thought "real feel, real people, local shops and restaurants." In the Spring we visited and I got an entirely different perspective. Years ago I would have described it as you did, but not today. Again, just how we all view what we see & how we feel about something varies so much which is why it's so great to get all the different perspectives.

Have a great trip! I loved Sicily, the people, the sites, the food all of it!