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Itin advice needed: Tuscany - Emilia Romagna - Varenna in November

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Itin advice needed: Tuscany - Emilia Romagna - Varenna in November

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Old Aug 19th, 2019, 12:28 PM
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Itin advice needed: Tuscany - Emilia Romagna - Varenna in November

Hello! My husband and I are flying into Rome late afternoon Friday, 22 November and departing out of Milan on Friday, 29 November. We plan to rent a car to make our way through Tuscany, a portion of Emilia-Romagna, and as of now spending our last three nights in Lake Como (Verenna or surrounding town); however, the more I explore the areas between Emilia-Romagna and Milan I'm second-guessing our decision to spend such a large portion of our short trip on Lake Como (if any at all).

Our priorities when traveling are to eat and drink well, hike when available, and generally stay active throughout the trip. Art and history are appreciated, but beautiful landscapes/mountains/topography more so. We spent 10 days in Sardinia last summer so that's why we're OK with staying inland this year.

Currently we are booked in the following locations:

22 Nov - Arrive FCO and pick up car. Drive straight to Pienza, where we have a hotel immediately outside of city gates. Will have time for dinner and drinks that evening before crashing!
23 Nov - Explore Pienza as well as taking the car throughout the region. Plan to hit Montepulciano this day if possible/not to tight on schedule.
24 Nov - Depart Pienza early AM by car and arrive in Siena with time to explore the city's highlights on foot and have lunch. Continue on to Castelvetro di Modena where we have a two night reservation at a local B&B.
25 Nov - Open to exploring the region. Holding for a cooking class, food tour, etc. Willing to drive into Bologna but also looking at options in smaller towns. *Any advice for this day appreciated!*
26 Nov - *As of now* Planning to depart Castelvetro di Modena and drive through Modena early to park outside the gates and explore the city for a few hours. If we arrive early enough will take in the market. Also waiting for our dates to become available for a potential lunch at Hosteria Giusti. At this time we plan to continue the drive and arrive in Varenna that evening.
27 Nov - Full day to hike and explore around Lake Como
28 Nov - Full day to hike and explore around Lake Como
29 Nov - Depart early AM for MXP to drop car and catch 10:25am flight *also open to advice on whether this is too difficult to pull off the morning of a flight, distance on Google says ~1.5 hour drive from Varenna to MXP*

As of now we're not spending more than 2.5 hours in the car on our longer driving days, which feels reasonable -- but is heading up to Varenna the right way to enjoy our last three nights? It's intriguing for the hiking and amazing discounts to stay on the lake that time of year (understand that this comes with a cost weather wise, but coming from Maryland we're used to November gloom), but if there is another way to see one of the more mountainous regions of Italy I would be open to suggestions.

FYI, all lodging reservations as of now are fully refundable - so if someone wants to throw out a completely different roadtrip between Rome and Milan over the course of a week I'm open to all suggestions!

Many thanks





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Old Aug 20th, 2019, 04:56 AM
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Check the weather statistics for late November on Lake Como. We were told fog creeps in late November and December.
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Old Aug 20th, 2019, 07:40 AM
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Reality check. You only have 6 days not impacted by arrival and departure.

I wouldn't visit Lake Como in late November for several reasons. If hiking is the priority, weather might not be decent. Lots of restaurants and shops will be closed. Ferry schedules are reduced, and Varenna isn't within reasonable day-trip range for driving to sights around the lake (i.e., Villa Balbianello, Villa Carlotta, Como funicular). The drive from Modena to Varenna would take half a day on the boring autostrada and 5+ hours if you take a more interesting/scenic route. Varenna to Malpensa would take more than 2.5 hours.

More importantly, I think you're short-changing Tuscany. There is so much more to see in southern Tuscany than just Pienza and Montepulciano and the drive between the two. And only a few hours in Siena...? At that time of year, sunset will be shortly after 4:30 p.m., so your daylight hours are already reduced.

If it was my trip, I'd skip Lake Como and add the days/nights to Tuscany.

I would stay closer to Malpensa on the last night, perhaps even right at the airport to maximize sightseeing on the last day.

FWIW, I wouldn't drive into Bologna for a day trip. I'd take the train from Modena. (I hope you are aware of the ZTLs -- limited traffic zones -- established in nearly every Italian town....)
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Old Aug 20th, 2019, 08:45 AM
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I agree with everything Jean said. Lago di Como could be a big bummer at that time of year. We were in Stresa late last November and had near-hurricane conditions. Interesting, but hardly fun.

You have a very limited number of days at a very iffy time of year for weather. Just enjoy Tuscany. No point in trying to be adventurous given the time of year you've chosen to travel.
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Old Aug 20th, 2019, 10:08 AM
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HappyTrvler, Jean, and StCirq -- thank you! My husband loves the idea of having Varenna and the surrounding area to ourselves, but my gut is telling me that it's too much of a risk given the drive times alone. Reading other's reviews and conversations about the topic make you realize weather is always a gamble (some have had chilly but beautiful stays that time of year), but there will be less angst leading up to it if we stay further south, it seems.

It's hard to imagine eliminating E-R from the itinerary since we're keen to take in the gastronomy of the region and we'll be so close-by; I wonder if we might drop our car in Modena or Bologna and then train into Milan later on the 27th. Grab two nights room in Milan to have the 28th to explore, and then take the train from Milan Central to MXP the morning of the 29th for our 10:25am flight? Or are we missing out on a charming, if not lesser known town, near MXP that we can stay our last day and drive in the morning of the flight?

As always, many many thanks for taking the time to respond!
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Old Aug 20th, 2019, 11:13 AM
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There's not much point in driving to a region to sample its cuisine in a day or two. You'll have just a few meals there, which isn't enough to really sample the cuisine. For one thing, it varies from place to place within Emilia Romagna.

I basically agree with Jean's advice. There are some excellent restaurants in Tuscany, where you can enjoy the cuisine of Tuscany, which also has great variety within the region.
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Old Aug 20th, 2019, 12:11 PM
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It's your trip, but I would still want more time in Tuscany. If you trade 3 nights at Lake Como for 2 nights in Milan, that only gives Tuscany one more night/day. I like Milan more than most people here, but I'd rather have more time in Tuscany and stay in Milan just one night to be well-positioned for an early Malpensa check-in.

FYI, you mentioned in your original post that you're not spending more than 2.5 hours in the car on any day. However, FCO to Pienza will take closer to 3 hours, especially likely if you end the drive after sunset, and this doesn't include the time to rent the car. If you're coming off a long-haul, overnight flight, this is a somewhat risky plan, and darkness would add to the risk.
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Old Aug 20th, 2019, 04:20 PM
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I would spend your whole six nights in Florence and travel by train from Rome and to Milan, spending your last night in Milan or at the airport. If you wanted to, you could take the train from Florence to Bologna in 35 minutes.

Bob the Navigator used to suggest Lake Orta as a last-night-before-MXP place to stay.

Last edited by werth; Aug 20th, 2019 at 04:53 PM.
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Old Aug 21st, 2019, 08:03 AM
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All thank you so much! I thought I posted a previous reply but don't see it anywhere, so apologies if this is repetitive.

The advice on taking a conservative approach to drive times is very much appreciated -- all I'm going off of is Google map drive times, and it's nice to hear from you all what the reality is. We have a layover in Munich the morning of our arrival which will allow time to collect ourselves, grab food, caffeinate, etc., so knowing our own abilities from past trips we'll be able to push through with a drive upon landing at FCO that afternoon. Our hotel in Pienza is right outside the gate with ample parking and food nearby, so that's a helpful factor as well as to not push it and stress ourselves too much the first (disorienting) day.

I'm taking the suggestions to remain in Tuscany to heart, considering train travel as needed (will not forgo a car entirely), and if anything I'm encouraged to perhaps take a train into E-R for the day. We'll see how that goes as I dig into more Tuscany itineraries and forums.

Finally, thank you for the Lake Orta suggestion for our last night prior to MXP the next day -- I've also come across some smaller towns on Maggiore that might scratch our itch to stay lakeside for the last day, without throwing our entire trip off if it's nasty weather.

This forum is always so helpful in that it forces you to take a step back and reevaluate from different angles. Grazie millie!
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Old Aug 21st, 2019, 01:01 PM
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Just FYI, Google estimates of drive times are almost always optimistic. Sometimes wildly optimistic. I always add time, sometimes as much as 10 minutes for every hour. If the destination is a town with a ZTL (as opposed to an airport or rural lodging), I add even more time because Google calculates driving to the city center (where you can't go) and doesn't allow for time needed to find parking, time to walk into the center, etc. The area immediately around Siena, for example, has a bit of rush hour traffic in the morning and late afternoon which I don't think Google takes into account.

The only problem I see with Maggiore or Orta on the last night is that either/both are a long drive from the Modena area and boring autostrada all the way (even more boring if it's raining). Depending on where you stay on either lake, it might not be any more lively than Varenna.

Don't underestimate how much time it might take to return the car. It could be fairly quick. Or there could be a long line. You want to be sure the car is inspected properly while you're there in case they claim any sort of damage.
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Old Oct 19th, 2019, 11:13 AM
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We flew into Rome, rented a car and drive directly to Pienza. Even during the day this was a tough drive on little sleep.
I also think you would enjoy more time in Pienza. The entire region is a UNESCO world heritage site and breathtaking views are abundant. Food is incredible and you are smack in the middle of arguably Italy’s best wine region.

We were not fans of Milan and will plan to only use the city as fly in location for northern Italy travel.

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Old Oct 20th, 2019, 03:22 AM
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Different people have different tastes, of course, but I think that many of the people who don't like Milan (and the same could be said for Rome) have made a very brief visit and have seen little of the city.

Milan is one of my favorite cities in the world. If you're looking for quaint medieval streets and cobblestones, you won't find them. It does have an immense medieval castle, though, a beautiful Gothic cathedral, and several other lovely medieval churches, including the Basilica di Sant'Ambrogio.

Milan has excellent museums; the Brera Gallery is world class. There are usually noteworthy art exhibits in the Palazzo Reale, next to the Duomo. There is great modern architetture, a vibrant music and arts community, and some superb restaurants.

Milan has changed a lot in the past decade, especially since the Expo of 2015. If you like a vibrant, stylish city, and take the time to get to know it, you will probably like Milan. We go there about once a year, and always enjoy it.
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Old Jan 7th, 2020, 07:15 AM
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Final itin: Italian road trip, Nov. 2019

I’d like to thank everyone who took the time to respond with suggestions to our initial itinerary – it was invaluable in helping to rethink our short time during a questionable (weather-wise) time of year. Our final itinerary will feel rushed for many, but given the time we had (Thanksgiving week) and our too-cheap to pass-up airfare (flight into Rome, out of Milan), we both felt it was a great use of time/resources. Most importantly, it allowed two 30-something y/o with a limited budget and PTO to fall in love with a slice of a country that we can't wait to return to some day!

Arrive FCO

Pienza: 2 nights

Siena: 1 night

La Morra: 3 nights

Oleggio: 1 night

Depart MXP

Day 1 (Friday, 11/22): Arrived in Rome at 2:30pm local after a layover in Munich. Headed straight to grab bag and our rental car (within terminal) and drove directly to our hotel just outside the gates in Pienza. The drive took us around 2.5 hours and left time to have a wonderful first meal next door to our hotel and some much-appreciated sleep.

Day 2: Full day. Explored Pienza by foot that morning, then hopped in the car to enjoy a near-by winery before parking to visit Montepulciano. Stumbled across our one and only Christmas market of the trip, which was the best surprise! Back to hotel to rest and make our dinner reservation that evening within Pienza.

Day 3: Driving day. Checked out of our hotel and the overcast skies cleared to view the Val d’Orcia in its full, sunny glory! Started our 1.5 hour drive to Siena with a couple of stops to stretch our legs and take more photos. Arrived in Siena for an early check-in and drop our luggage/car at the hotel, right outside of the ZTL. Spent the day exploring major highlights of Siena by foot, had an 8pm dinner reservation to cap off the very full and fun day.

Day 4: Driving day. This was our big drive of the trip, and we made the most of it! We determined our final destination, after much thought and suggestions, to La Morra in Piemonte. We routed Google maps to take us by way of the coastline, which also included some gorgeous mountain views as we departed Tuscany, and we broke up the drive with a long lunch and walk by the sea in Camogli, ~3 hours from Siena. Cannot recommend this enough – easy parking, sea breeze, and sunshine made this a perfect re-charge for the day. Back in the car for another ~2 hours to La Morra, just in time to watch sunset over the alps at our AirBnb.

Day 5: Full day, and our favorite day! Not typically ones to hire guides, we took the advice of others and booked a wine guide to explore Barolo and its surrounding towns. I cannot recommend Anna with Italianna Food and Wine tours enough! She offered full service with driving, making appointments for tasting rooms, and scheduling lunch. A relaxing and full day, all at once.

Day 6: Full day, which wound up with some driving. After stuffing ourselves with food and wine the day before, we determined another day of tasting rooms wasn’t in the cards. An exceptionally gray and rainy day led us to a spur of the moment drive to Turin (about an hour), which gave us our big city fix of the trip with lots to see and explore. Had to make our dinner reservation that evening back in La Morra, but could have easily built a couple of nights around exploring the city.

**Note: I will never forget the views, food, wine, and people of this region. It wasn’t on my radar initially but I’d return in a heartbeat.

Day 7: Last day, driving day. Departed our sweet AirBnb in La Morra to head east to our final lodging outside of Milan Malpensa. Detoured through the town of Barbaresco to enjoy their local enoteca for a final tasting, and a leisurely lunch, before getting to our final location (Oleggio, ~2 hours from La Morra) to re-pack for the flight home and grab dinner.

Day 8 (Friday, 11/29): Easy drive to MXP for our 10:15am flight (about a 15-20 minute drive). Dropped rental at airport.

I hope this can offer some guidance for anyone needing a little inspiration of their own! I fell in love with Italy on this trip, and can’t wait to explore the rest of this country as we’re able to.

Last edited by NicWil1120; Jan 7th, 2020 at 07:20 AM.
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Old Jan 7th, 2020, 07:38 AM
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Welcome to the club! Sounds like it was a great trip. You'll likely be back many times.
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Old Jan 8th, 2020, 12:24 AM
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Awesome!
Where did you stay and eat in La Morra?
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Old Jan 8th, 2020, 09:42 AM
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Can't recommend our AirBnb enough: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/1906449...yWgTe4wlc7Easc
Just for the views alone (photos in listing don't do it justice), but also had a full kitchen that allowed for cooking one night, and could walk into town each morning for coffee and other meals (with the exception of our last night, a little bit of a drive).

Our meals were somewhat scattered throughout the region, but had two dinners in La Morra proper: our one pizza of the trip at Osteria Pizzeria Per Bacco (certified Neopolitan style) and our last dinner (and best meal of the trip) at Osteria Veglio. We splurged on white truffle dishes with flavors and scents worth every penny! We also had lunches in Castiglione Falleto at the Cantina Comunale by our wine guide's recommendation, and in Barbaresco at Trattoria Antica Torre.

Wishing I wasn't eating a desk salad at work while recounting this!
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Old Jan 8th, 2020, 10:16 AM
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Thanks for coming back with the update. As you say that was quite a long way to go in a day from Tuscany to Piemonte but it seems to have worked for you so that's all that matters. And you found some great places to eat so even better!
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Old Jan 8th, 2020, 12:54 PM
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My pleasure! It was definitely a haul, and not for everyone --but in this instance, it worked out exactly as I'd hoped. That being said, I'm looking forward to utilizing the rail system a bit on our next trip
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Old Jan 8th, 2020, 01:22 PM
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Yes, welcome to the club of people who love Italy. What matters with trips like this is if at the end, you can look back on it as a good time - and it sounds like you enjoyed it a lot. Thanks for posting this. Like you, our first trip to Italy was a whirlwind of short stays at many places but also like you, we fell in love with it and have been back several times.
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Old Jan 8th, 2020, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NicWil1120
Can't recommend our AirBnb enough: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/1906449...yWgTe4wlc7Easc
Just for the views alone (photos in listing don't do it justice), but also had a full kitchen that allowed for cooking one night, and could walk into town each morning for coffee and other meals (with the exception of our last night, a little bit of a drive).

Our meals were somewhat scattered throughout the region, but had two dinners in La Morra proper: our one pizza of the trip at Osteria Pizzeria Per Bacco (certified Neopolitan style) and our last dinner (and best meal of the trip) at Osteria Veglio. We splurged on white truffle dishes with flavors and scents worth every penny! We also had lunches in Castiglione Falleto at the Cantina Comunale by our wine guide's recommendation, and in Barbaresco at Trattoria Antica Torre.
Wishing I wasn't eating a desk salad at work while recounting this!
Thanks for the information.
werth is offline  

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