Italy's Proposed Guild Reform Law...More taxis...
Apr 25th, 2012, 12:41 PM
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Italy's Proposed Guild Reform Law...More taxis...
My local CBC (Canada) news yesterday carried an interesting piece about Italy and how legislation is trying to be passed to reform the country's traditional guild system that has resulted in various guilds stifle competition in areas such as taxis, pharmacies and even preventing Starbucks from entering the caffe market.
It was esepcially mentioned that a perpetual shortage of taxis in places like Florence and Rome are due to the tight grip taxi guilds have over the supply and competition - restricting the number of licensed cabs serving those cities and others - keeping competition out also results in higher cab fares, etc.
Pharmacies were also pointed out - guilds have restricted large pharmacies and hypermarches from competing so prices in the small pharmacies that dot Italian streets are much higher than they would be if competition were opened up.
And Starbucks apparently has been stymied in joining the caffe fray as well - though the program did not elaborate on exactly how guilds were doing this - perhaps that is more a matter of local zoning where towns like the Slow Foods towns have zoned out McDonalds and fast food places totally. McDonalds itself though now omnipresent all over Italy in non Slow Food towns at least faced such bureaucratic blockades when they sought to enter the Italian market a few decades ago - previously having been restricted to a single outlet near the Spanish Steps in Rome I believe - but McDonalds simply bought a big Italian hambuer chain - Burgy I believe it was called - and suddently Golden Archew were everywhere.
Anyway things may be changing soon in Italy as archaic and restrictive laws friendly to guilds may be scrapped.
Heck even stodgy Trenitalia is now forced to rface comeptition of different rail companies operating over their tracks!
It was esepcially mentioned that a perpetual shortage of taxis in places like Florence and Rome are due to the tight grip taxi guilds have over the supply and competition - restricting the number of licensed cabs serving those cities and others - keeping competition out also results in higher cab fares, etc.
Pharmacies were also pointed out - guilds have restricted large pharmacies and hypermarches from competing so prices in the small pharmacies that dot Italian streets are much higher than they would be if competition were opened up.
And Starbucks apparently has been stymied in joining the caffe fray as well - though the program did not elaborate on exactly how guilds were doing this - perhaps that is more a matter of local zoning where towns like the Slow Foods towns have zoned out McDonalds and fast food places totally. McDonalds itself though now omnipresent all over Italy in non Slow Food towns at least faced such bureaucratic blockades when they sought to enter the Italian market a few decades ago - previously having been restricted to a single outlet near the Spanish Steps in Rome I believe - but McDonalds simply bought a big Italian hambuer chain - Burgy I believe it was called - and suddently Golden Archew were everywhere.
Anyway things may be changing soon in Italy as archaic and restrictive laws friendly to guilds may be scrapped.
Heck even stodgy Trenitalia is now forced to rface comeptition of different rail companies operating over their tracks!
Apr 25th, 2012, 09:19 PM
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"...and suddently Golden Arches were everywhere".
This McDonalds is *directly* across the piazza from the Pantheon.
http://italyville.com/wp-content/upl...dspantheon.jpg
To add insult to injury the plaque on the wall above it reads;
POPE PIUS VI IN THE 23RD YEAR OF HIS REIGN RECLAIMED FROM THE DISLIKED UGLINESS
THE AREA IN FRONT OF M. AGRIPPA'S PANTHEON OCCUPIED BY IGNOBLE TAVERNS
BY MEANS OF A MOST WISE DEMOLITION
AND ORDERED TO LEAVE THE VIEW FREE IN A OPEN PLACE Regards, Walter
This McDonalds is *directly* across the piazza from the Pantheon.
http://italyville.com/wp-content/upl...dspantheon.jpg
To add insult to injury the plaque on the wall above it reads;
POPE PIUS VI IN THE 23RD YEAR OF HIS REIGN RECLAIMED FROM THE DISLIKED UGLINESS
THE AREA IN FRONT OF M. AGRIPPA'S PANTHEON OCCUPIED BY IGNOBLE TAVERNS
BY MEANS OF A MOST WISE DEMOLITION
AND ORDERED TO LEAVE THE VIEW FREE IN A OPEN PLACE Regards, Walter
Apr 26th, 2012, 03:11 AM
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Some months ago now, but last time we were there we were pleased to see that place looking like this..
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/142922226
One down, however many more thousands to go!
Peter
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/142922226
One down, however many more thousands to go!
Peter
Apr 27th, 2012, 01:22 AM
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And both the McDonald's on Viale Trastevere and on VEII near Largo Argentina also closed... and a few years ago, the McD's on the Via del Corso closed. Maybe it's a sign! Hmmm...
The rumor mill after McD's closed near the Pantheon was that Starbucks was trying to secure that property. Hopefully it's just a rumor...
The rumor mill after McD's closed near the Pantheon was that Starbucks was trying to secure that property. Hopefully it's just a rumor...
Apr 28th, 2012, 07:33 AM
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It's sweet for foreing tourists to have Rome look like a museum but I sympathize with many locals who welcome things like MacDonalds as they call it or Starbucks - the McDonalds at the Spanish Steps is perpetually thronged with not only foreign tourists who like things like cheap coffee and a toilet to use and many many Italians
So you can lament the McDonaldization and Starbuckization of Rome and Italy from our viewpoints but let us consider what the average Italian may like - choices to patronize these places if they want and if they do not the places simply go out of business.
McDonalds all over Italy I have been in are thriving, mainly with locals.
Has Starbucks being all over Paris ruined Paris or London or nearly every other European city?
No of course not and IMO it is nonsense to lament Starbucks coming to Rome - myopic and selfish and haughty - I as a tourist on a starvation budget love having those places around - a cheap coffee, place to write postcards, take a crap, etc.
Yes to me it is haughty to want to prevent these places from 'ruining' Rome - not everyone can afford $50 meals and $3-4 coffees in a proper caffe.
Get off your high horses and let Romans and Italians do what they want. Nobody will force you to go to those places and even if there is one opposite the Vatican it would not ruin the Vatican - these places only make Rome a modern city and not a museum piece like some seem to want it. Even the Wendy's that was at least in Venice last I knew did not ruin Venice but only provided desired services for some who want and need it.
So you can lament the McDonaldization and Starbuckization of Rome and Italy from our viewpoints but let us consider what the average Italian may like - choices to patronize these places if they want and if they do not the places simply go out of business.
McDonalds all over Italy I have been in are thriving, mainly with locals.
Has Starbucks being all over Paris ruined Paris or London or nearly every other European city?
No of course not and IMO it is nonsense to lament Starbucks coming to Rome - myopic and selfish and haughty - I as a tourist on a starvation budget love having those places around - a cheap coffee, place to write postcards, take a crap, etc.
Yes to me it is haughty to want to prevent these places from 'ruining' Rome - not everyone can afford $50 meals and $3-4 coffees in a proper caffe.
Get off your high horses and let Romans and Italians do what they want. Nobody will force you to go to those places and even if there is one opposite the Vatican it would not ruin the Vatican - these places only make Rome a modern city and not a museum piece like some seem to want it. Even the Wendy's that was at least in Venice last I knew did not ruin Venice but only provided desired services for some who want and need it.
Apr 28th, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Actually there is a Subway and a Burger King less than two blocks from the Vatican - I lived on that street. Frankly, I could care less if they add a Starbucks anywhere in Italy as I never went to their locations when I lived in the States... There are many, many places to get great coffee, write postcards, and to log in to the internet in Rome! And you don't need to pay $3-6 for a GREAT coffee in Italy. After I became a "regular" customer at my local corner bar, I paid only 60 cents, rather than the "published" 80 cents on the menu. And it was always good!
When you live overseas, often eating at McD's, BK, Subway, etc., is like getting a "taste of home," so it's a treat rather than a meal. For us, we would go to a "US-type-restaurant" perhaps once every two months because we ate "Italian" every day and it was a change of pace. Once we ate at a Chi-Chi's in Luxembourg City because we had not seen one in years! (Great margaritas!) So for us, because we don't get to "see" these options daily, eating "USA food" is often a unique experience - much like a traveler to Italy (but in reverse?).
Frankly, the Euro-operators fast food operators often seem to do a better job in food quality than their counterparts in the States. Fast food in Europe may not be "as fast" as the US locations (seems to be less pre-packaged here), and perhaps that's why the food quality may be more consistent. And I say this with 25+ years in the restaurant business.
While McD's seems to be growing in many parts of Italy, in Rome they appear to have trouble hanging on to their leases. They are very popular in Europe and average volumes per unit are generally more than in the States.
I was interested in the Wendy's location in Venice. As a former Wendy's franchisee, the only Euro locations I was aware of were in Russia. We owned a location on a military base so that was interesting (and challenging). Looking online at the Wendy's International site it appears there is no current Venice, Italy location, so it must have closed. Too bad; I would have liked to have seen their operation. In 15+ trips to Venice, I never saw it - 'course I wasn't looking for it either!
It is interesting to see four McD's locations in the central area of Rome close. They were replaced by a bank, a local business, and a Gucci store. Who knows what business will take that prime spot by the Pantheon.
I don't think anyone is discounting McD's, Starbuck's and other fast food feeders. Then again,I'm not sure I want to see one in the Colosseo or Forum...
Yet, when you have the opportunity to eat the unique foods of Italy, and "Italian" food in Italy does taste different than "Italian" food in other parts of the world, why not take advantage of the limited opportunity?
When you live overseas, often eating at McD's, BK, Subway, etc., is like getting a "taste of home," so it's a treat rather than a meal. For us, we would go to a "US-type-restaurant" perhaps once every two months because we ate "Italian" every day and it was a change of pace. Once we ate at a Chi-Chi's in Luxembourg City because we had not seen one in years! (Great margaritas!) So for us, because we don't get to "see" these options daily, eating "USA food" is often a unique experience - much like a traveler to Italy (but in reverse?).
Frankly, the Euro-operators fast food operators often seem to do a better job in food quality than their counterparts in the States. Fast food in Europe may not be "as fast" as the US locations (seems to be less pre-packaged here), and perhaps that's why the food quality may be more consistent. And I say this with 25+ years in the restaurant business.
While McD's seems to be growing in many parts of Italy, in Rome they appear to have trouble hanging on to their leases. They are very popular in Europe and average volumes per unit are generally more than in the States.
I was interested in the Wendy's location in Venice. As a former Wendy's franchisee, the only Euro locations I was aware of were in Russia. We owned a location on a military base so that was interesting (and challenging). Looking online at the Wendy's International site it appears there is no current Venice, Italy location, so it must have closed. Too bad; I would have liked to have seen their operation. In 15+ trips to Venice, I never saw it - 'course I wasn't looking for it either!
It is interesting to see four McD's locations in the central area of Rome close. They were replaced by a bank, a local business, and a Gucci store. Who knows what business will take that prime spot by the Pantheon.
I don't think anyone is discounting McD's, Starbuck's and other fast food feeders. Then again,I'm not sure I want to see one in the Colosseo or Forum...
Yet, when you have the opportunity to eat the unique foods of Italy, and "Italian" food in Italy does taste different than "Italian" food in other parts of the world, why not take advantage of the limited opportunity?
Apr 28th, 2012, 01:33 PM
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PalenQ, I agree with your 2nd post and have no problem with McD, Starbucks, etc in any European city.
But I think in some historic places they should be zoned-out just to keep the character of the area intact.
We do it in the US all the time and in many historical towns business' (sometimes homeowners I beieve) must also get approval from the Historical Society or the like to make exterior changes to their business.
Personally I just didn't like the McD in the Piazza d. Rotonda because of the historical importance of the area.
And I agree with 'rineurope' "Then again, I'm not sure I want to see one in the Colosseo or Forum..." Regards, Walter
But I think in some historic places they should be zoned-out just to keep the character of the area intact.
We do it in the US all the time and in many historical towns business' (sometimes homeowners I beieve) must also get approval from the Historical Society or the like to make exterior changes to their business.
Personally I just didn't like the McD in the Piazza d. Rotonda because of the historical importance of the area.
And I agree with 'rineurope' "Then again, I'm not sure I want to see one in the Colosseo or Forum..."
Regards, Walter
Apr 29th, 2012, 01:13 AM
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It might pay to consider the effects if restaurants etc were opened in proportion to the importance of Italy's various foreign visitors...
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/130860390
Peter
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/130860390
Peter
Apr 29th, 2012, 04:59 AM
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Great point Peter... I can only remember one German restaurant in the Prati area where we lived! Living in Rome and eating out with our friends quite often, we used to joke that in Rome you can get three types of food:"Italian..... Italian...... and ..... Italian!"
Apr 29th, 2012, 08:09 AM
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Yet, when you have the opportunity to eat the unique foods of Italy, and "Italian" food in Italy does taste different than "Italian" food in other parts of the world, why not take advantage of the limited opportunity?>
Ironically MacDoo's often have down-home Italian food in their places - like at the Spanish Steps - you can get pasta and non hamburger or frenched fried fare - yet ironically very few of the young Italians that mainly frequent that place touch the truly Italian fare and head for a Big Mac at the fast-food counter.
I agree with the keeping all types of commercial places out of places like the Colosseum area, opposite Pantheon, etc - not just McDonalds - take the Colosseum - every time I have been there there is a ton of tacky tourist schlock right out front - the faux gladiators posing for folks with pictures - postcard vendors, candy salesmen - all kinds of really tacky things that I think do not belong smack in front of one of the world's most famous edifices. Yet Italians decide to tolerate it even though I understand much of that activity is technically illegal... and that type of laissze-faire is part of what so endears me to Italy!
Ironically MacDoo's often have down-home Italian food in their places - like at the Spanish Steps - you can get pasta and non hamburger or frenched fried fare - yet ironically very few of the young Italians that mainly frequent that place touch the truly Italian fare and head for a Big Mac at the fast-food counter.
I agree with the keeping all types of commercial places out of places like the Colosseum area, opposite Pantheon, etc - not just McDonalds - take the Colosseum - every time I have been there there is a ton of tacky tourist schlock right out front - the faux gladiators posing for folks with pictures - postcard vendors, candy salesmen - all kinds of really tacky things that I think do not belong smack in front of one of the world's most famous edifices. Yet Italians decide to tolerate it even though I understand much of that activity is technically illegal... and that type of laissze-faire is part of what so endears me to Italy!
Apr 29th, 2012, 08:52 AM
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What an interesting thread and just a couple of comments.
I am an American and our perscription costs on medicine are horrible and for us to get our perscriptions at the pharmacy in Chianti it is dirt cheap.
We never go to fast food in America so I guess we would not do that here. I doubt that it is a cheap hamburger, but the butcher in Panzano is doing a bang up business and the place is called Mc Dario.
Our coffee is less than a buck so that all might be a larger city kind of thing or how often you frequent a place. I do believe that it is an Italian law that all coffee has to be made with "whole milk" so that will speed up the coffee line at Starbucks. That is not even to suggest that there are not a zillion ways to order coffee in Italy.... just no half cafe or whatever that is.
I am an American and our perscription costs on medicine are horrible and for us to get our perscriptions at the pharmacy in Chianti it is dirt cheap.
We never go to fast food in America so I guess we would not do that here. I doubt that it is a cheap hamburger, but the butcher in Panzano is doing a bang up business and the place is called Mc Dario.
Our coffee is less than a buck so that all might be a larger city kind of thing or how often you frequent a place. I do believe that it is an Italian law that all coffee has to be made with "whole milk" so that will speed up the coffee line at Starbucks. That is not even to suggest that there are not a zillion ways to order coffee in Italy.... just no half cafe or whatever that is.
