wanderlustily

Hi all!

After 16 nights in Italy last November/December, I've decided to return for a second solo trip in April and May of 2018 for a full 26 days (last trip I spent part of the time in Paris). Even though a part of me thinks I should take one of the other trips I've mulled over (Argentina, New Zealand...places with great wine, really), I can't get Rome out of my head. So here we are.

As you can probably imagine, I've put some serious thought into how much time I should spend in cities I've already seen (Rome, Florence, Bologna, Venice), and eventually came to the conclusion that I should do what I want to do, not what I think I should do. That being said, I've managed to narrow it down to a few possibilities.

The musts:
Rome (at least 8 nights)
Naples (3 or 4 nights)
Positano (at least 5 nights)

The possibilities:
Umbria
Venice

If I include Venice in the itinerary, I'll fly into Rome ($19/19,000 Alaska miles, baby!) and out of Venice, but if I skip Venice this trip, I'll fly in and out of Rome. If Umbria is included, what makes the most sense in terms of city/area order? The natural inclination is to stay in Rome first, then head down to Naples and Positano, but I'm wondering if reversing that wouldn't be smarter particularly if I end up renting a car for Umbria. I'd love to hear thoughts about the best order. I plan on taking the train between Rome and Naples, but will probably splurge for a car from Naples to Positano (and possibly back).

Airport question: how much time do you need to change planes in Frankfurt and Amsterdam? Would 2h 45m be enough? (This is for the flight home, so it would mean connecting to the international flight.) I'm not familiar with those airports, and under 3 hours makes me a little leery.

Finally, since I am planning on spending such a long time in Positano and particularly Rome, any suggestions on things to do? I am particularly interested in food, wine, Roman ruins, history, cool buildings, finding cool things to Instagram, and hiking to name a few. I plan on doing a few food tours, another class at Vino Roma, a food and wine pairing dinner, probably a cooking class in each of the cities I visit, and of course the usual sightseeing. I'm also considering doing an Italian language course in Rome to build on what I've been learning on my own.

Anyway, this is getting long and rambling, but you know how it is when you're planning a trip - hard to stop talking about it! So any thoughts about the logistics or tips on cool spots to check out or just general fun and nonsense to be found, let me know!

kybourbon

I would put Rome at the end if it's your departure city.

From Naples you take the train to Paestum since you like ruins. I think I would get bored with 5 nights in Positano, but perhaps if you do enough day trips (Amalfi, Capri, Ravello). It's possible to get to Paestum from Positano (by bus), but would require more connections.

>>>can't get Rome out of my head<<<

I can't either and always schedule 3-5 days at the end in Rome.

>>>So any thoughts about the logistics <<<

That will depend on your flights. If in and out of Rome, I would head either to Naples on arrival or to Umbria.

greg

>>> If I include Venice in the itinerary, I'll fly into Rome ($19/19,000 Alaska miles, baby!) and out of Venice.

Did you reach this conclusion after looking at your miles situation, arrival and departure time logistics? I don't know where are flying from, but for those from the U.S.A, the Rome arrival are usually very early while Venice returns are also very early. You get issues on both ends. If you arrive early in Rome and stay in Rome, what are you going to do until you can check in? If you return from Venice is insanely early, have you computed when you have to leave the accommodation in Venice?

>>> the natural inclination is to stay in Rome first, then head down to Naples and Positano, but I'm wondering if reversing that wouldn't be smarter particularly if I end up renting a car for Umbria.

I would say the natural inclination is NOT to stay in Rome first. Again look at arrival info. Suppose your plane arrives in Rome very early in the morning. Would you rather find something to kill time until you can check-in or would you rather press onto the first destination straight from the airport, such as Naples?

>>> how much time do you need to change planes in Frankfurt and Amsterdam? Would 2h 45m be enough?

I use both airports. That is about just right for return "home" under normal circumstances. AMS has been quicker for Skyteam connections. FRA connections are quick if all your flights are Star Alliance, e.g. LH to UA. However, understand that depending on security incidences where the airports are testing how to deal with new type of threats, the security process time suddenly skyrockets. I went through FRA right after the shoe bomber. Oh boy, they put in a totally new security check just for US bound flights and it suddenly took one additional hour than usual to get to the boarding area. Additionally, I got dumped on the tarmac quite many times on arrival at FRA when the plane was late and could not get a gate. This added 15 to 30 min additional time to get off the plane.

>>> Finally, since I am planning on spending such a long time in Positano and particularly Rome, any suggestions on things to do? I I am particularly interested in food, wine, Roman ruins, history.

Ruins? Do you know about Pompeii and Herculaneum? You will be zooming by both of them on your way to Positano from Rome.

Andrew

Yes - if you choose to include Venice, start there and end south. You would want to avoid a crack-of-dawn flight out of Venice at the end meaning an expensive water taxi to the airport or something.

I've connected in Amsterdam many times - usually flying into Europe but at least once flying out. I've always found it an efficient airport, even though it is huge. I'd be comfortable with 2:45 to connect in Amsterdam myself. I've somehow never connected in Frankfurt.

What's this about $19/19,000 Alaska miles now? I use Alaska miles too to fly to Europe - not sure what you mean here - isn't it at least 20K miles one way from the US to Europe?

wanderlustily

@Andrew: I guess it's $19/20k now, but still. (That's SEA-FCO via PHL and American Airlines.) Took the same flight last time, and it was a long day, but fine.

As far as early arrival time in Rome, it worked out well enough last time. I travel fairly lightly (one carry-on size suitcase), and don't mind café hopping for an hour or two until I can get into the accommodations. But yes, I can also see where it might be convenient to go directly to Naples.

Thanks for the return airport info. It makes me feel better knowing that should be plenty of time, so I won't have to be as finicky about flights.

I went to Pompeii on my last trip, and Paestum is one of my top things on this trip. I also plan on visiting the Archaeological Museum in Naples to see the treasures there.

It's funny but I completely forgot how early all the flights out of Venice were, and I just did that last December. Oof. Ha, I also got there three hours before my flight and had to wait around for over an hour before even checking in. Such a nice, quiet airport.

kja

Add some time to Naples!

Jan1

Did you think about South Tyrol? I like to go there, because I like the nature and doing sports. You can go hiking or riding a bike. The Belvita hotels in Italy offer a lot of activities and have a big spa. If you want to take a look http://www.belvita.it/en/
Due to university duties I won´t be able to travel this year...
I hope you have fun!

bilboburgler

Nov/Dec may be too wet for fun hiking

bvlenci

I definitely wouldn't plan a trip to Alto Adige (the Italian name for South Tyrol) in late November or December. That is, unless you go after the Feast of the Immaculate Conception (December 8) and want to visit the Christmas markets. Venice may also be a little damp and chilly at that time of year.

If you choose to visit Umbria rather than Venice, I think the Rome-first order works well. Next go south, and end up in Umbria, where you should definitely rent a car. Depending on the hour of your departure, if you stay near the southern part of Umbria at the end of your time, you can drive to the airport on the day of your departure. Otherwise, drive to the airport the evening before your flight and stay in an airport hotel the last night. The Hilton Airport hotel is right at Terminal 3, where you can get a shuttle to Terminal 5 for checking for US-bound flights. (If you have a layover in Europe, you'd be departing from Terminal 1/2, but that's an easy walk from Terminal 3 for someone with little luggage.)

Early November is the peak season for the highly-prized white truffle in Umbria. There are several truffle fairs in Umbria, but the only ones I can find are in October, or the first days of November.

indyhiker

Just to clarify for others, the OP's trip is in April/May. Her prior trip was in November/December.

frencharmoire

If you are interested in history & food, you should spend more time in Naples & less in Positano.

frencharmoire

Also, April/May is not good for the Alps. Stay south.

Peter_S_Aus

The Architecture Biennale in Venice starts around the third week of May 2018. That might grab you - it certainly grabbed me for a couple of weeks in 2016.

kybourbon

>>>But yes, I can also see where it might be convenient to go directly to Naples.<<<

This is what I do, but I am familiar with the locations and transport (as you probably are). Last fall, upon arrival I took the train from the airport to Rome and changed to a train to Caserta. I spent my first 2 nights in Caserta as I wanted to see the Royal Palace this trip (the gardens/fountains really).

>>>you should spend more time in Naples & less in Positano.<<<

I'm not a big fan of Naples, but that might make sense depending on what you want to visit. Positano doesn't have much transport (bus and a few ferries which are weather dependent).

wanderlustily

Thanks for all the feedback! Yes, this coming trip will be in April/May of next year, but weather isn't too much of an issue for me (aside from not wanting to hike) - used to the rain and don't mind snow if I don't have to drive in it.


After a little more thought, I'm wondering if my best itinerary would be to fly into Rome, take the train to Naples or Salerno and then a hired car to Positano. Stay in Positano for five nights, then on to Naples for four. After that, I would rent a car in Naples and head to Umbria (possibly base in Bevagna, but not fully decided on that yet) where I would stay for six nights. I would spend my final nine nights in Rome. My initial inclination was to rent the car and head out to Umbria, but I'm not sure I'll want to (or should!) drive after an overnight flight.

I'm tentatively planning to get out of Rome for at least one of the weekend days that I'm there, but I might play that by ear. Not entirely sure where I'd go, but there are interesting day trips from Rome aplenty, so the hard part will just be narrowing it down. I'll probably avoid the Vatican museum/Sistene Chapel again even though I really want to see the Maps room in the museum. With all the other beautiful churches in Rome, I don't feel like I missed out on anything.

A few friends think spending nine days in Rome is too many, but I think I'll be able to entertain myself. I really enjoy trips where I can take my time and not cram as many "musts" into a single day as possible. I'll be traveling again with a loose itinerary of things grouped by what's near each other and see what else I can find along the way. The busiest part of the trip will be Umbria because the goal is to see at least one town a day. Speaking of, how do you even begin to narrow it down when they all look so interesting? Sigh. Decisions.

Positano will be the relaxing part of the trip, though I do plan to see a couple other towns on the AC. But one of the days I'm there may be strictly devoted to sitting on a balcony with wine and lemon gelato.

Naples is still undefined except the Archaeological Museum. I've got to do my research, but I have the feeling that's a city I will enjoy wandering around without real purpose.

Thanks again!

ekc

I spend 8 days in Positano each June, so 5 definitely wouldn't be too much time for me. Personally, I would not rent a car for the Positano/Naples portion of your trip. You can travel quite easily via ferry or bus.

To see Paestum, I would take the ferry to Salerno, then bus to Paestum and back, then ferry back to Salerno. There are a few cafe's overlooking the ruins where you can catch a casual lunch. Be sure to tour the museum also. Or you can also see it easily from Naples via direct train.

If you are interested in wine, you could arrange a vineyard tour and lunch at Vigne di Raito near Vietri. You take the ferry to Salerno and they arrange transportation to/from Salerno (10-minute ride).

But honestly I spend most of my trip just relaxing in Positano. If you are open to renting an apartment, look at Casa Caldiero. We love it there and plan to return next year!

frencharmoire

If Paestum is one of the "top things" for you do to on this trip, then consider arriving in Italy, heading to Salerno and either spending the night in Salerno so you can see Paestum the next day, or going onward to Paestum the same day you arrive in Italy, spending the night there, and seeing Paestum first thing in the morning. Either way, you can leave your luggage wherever you stay while you tour Paestum, then pick it up and go to Positano.

Naples is a fabulous destination if you are interested in Italian art -- painting, sculpture, music -- and archeology. And of course food/markets/cafes. If your interest doesn't extend much beyond the archeology museum, then you can easily visit the museum on your way out of the Amalfi area. Just put your luggage in the train station.

If you rent a car in Naples to go to Umbria, might be easiest to rent it at the airport in Naples. However, depending on which day you are traveling, might make more sense to get on a train in Naples and get off in Umbria (Orvieto, Foligno, Spoleto) and rent the car there.

Likewise, if your initial inclination was to rent the car in Umbria, if you land in Rome, go by train to Orvieto or by bus to Perugia or Assisi & spend the night. Rent the car the next day.

Narrowing down the possibilities for the areas you've mentioned might depend on how much you are interested in medieval & Renaissance painting/frescoes. Umbria is an extraoridinary destination for the history of fresco painting & religious art in Italy. Supersedes Tuscany in some ways. If that is very important to you, then it is not hard to put together a doable itinerary to that takes you to the best towns for that in Umbria and eliminates that rest. However, if your major interest is antiquity, those are often different towns. Or, if your main enjoyment is well-preserved medieval hill towns to walk around, rather than do art or history sightseeing, just pick a compact area and see what's within it and try to find in a few "off the beaten" track ones so you see the untouristy side of Umbria as well.

Andrew

I visited Naples only for an afternoon as a day trip from Sorrento (after Pompeii). I wished I'd had more time in Naples - it was much nicer than expected. I was still a fairly novice traveler when I visited, and I had heard stories about how dirty and scary Naples was. And that was slightly true right around the train station, but once I got away from there, I really liked Naples. All I really did was walk from the train station to the archaeological museum and back - with a stop for lunch to get some Naples pizza (hey, it was invented there - so a requirement to have pizza there!). I didn't like Sorrento at all, but I'd love to go back to Naples someday.

kja

I agree that Paestum is magnificent. And it's museum, too -- it's small, so it's collection of very unusual artifacts can be seen in an hour or so. And I agree that one should go through Salerno to get there. And definitely consider sampling some of the local, fresh buffalo mozzarella while in Paestum! That said, I'd take the train from Salerno (not a bus), making sure to buy my return before leaving Salerno. And I'd stay in Salerno, not Paestum, because IMO, Salerno is a vastly underrated destination. Salerno has a glorious lungomare, a duomo filled with incredible treasures, and a fascinating medieval district (among other things). JMO....

wanderlustily

Before my last trip, I went back and forth on whether to include Naples, ending up dropping it, and then added Florence at the last minute. Unfortunately, I think that was the wrong choice for me as I've a feeling Naples will be much more my cup of tea.

But hey, some things are worth waiting for (or so I hear, waiting is not my forte).

I imagine Naples as a city that I'd enjoy wandering around with only a few planned stops...it just seems like there is a lot to see and take in. One question I have on Naples is: what area is ideal for a hotel or airbnb base? Since I only have a few "musts" - so far - I wouldn't mind being a bit outside of the main tourist core. Any specific recs are of course appreciated.

To avoid too much bouncing around lodging-wise, I plan to visit Paestum via Positano or Naples. Most likely Positano as a morning visit would give me an excuse to check out Salerno for a bit. Once in Paestum, I'll give the museum a look and I will definitely be looking for the buffalo mozzarella. It's one of those things I've read raves about for a few years, and I can't wait to try it.

Sounds like I a lot of thought should be put into renting the car. That's kind of why I wanted to avoid it (or do it on a non-solo trip), but alas. I don't think I can have a satisfactory trip to Umbria without one. The alternative is an Italian language/food tour hybrid I found (through Discovering Umbria) that has positive reviews. You spend an hour or so in the morning practicing Italian, then the rest of the day touring wineries and a few other towns (not the ones I am especially interested in). If I get lazy, maybe I'll go that route.

Again, thanks for all the info, particularly on Naples. I'm making notes and updating my trip notes!