mcsles

Thank you All again for your comments. In 2015 ? we visited the Cinque Terre, Venice, Florence, Siena, Rome and Positano. Side trips to a few Tuscany village and also a day to Pompei.
Yes I am not one to sit still for the record. I would like to take some of this advice and make a few changes. I see and read about places I would like to visit and then you get the above itinerary.
So I am thinking of adding more time to Bologna and eliminating stay in Verona or Ravenna. I have a friend who spoke highly of both of these.
Also I could easily skip Lucca and Pisa. We really enjoyed Tuscany in previous trip. Visiting Perugia and Assisi by others mention.
Amalfi coast was the ease of going Capri via boat to Positano. We liked that town. Secondly, we loved Ravello and also it would allow us to see the Eastern part of the coast. Amalfi seemed like a place to visit but a bit too loud at night.

AJPeabody

Curiously enough, something I learned in Physical Chemistry has proved very useful in travel planning. I may have forgotten how to do partial differential equations and I know I have forgotten the area code of Avogadro's number, but the technique of the "mind experiment" has stayed with me.

In a mind experiment, you imagine each detail of each step of what you would do in a real life experiment. If it turns out that the answer is completely predictable or if the experiment just can't be done, you save a lot of effort.

For travel, I do the same. Example: I am leaving A for B. I am taking a train from point A to point B, city centers. So I wake up in my hotel in A, get dressed, pack up, check out, wait for the cab to the train station, arrive early enough to get my ticket, find the track, have enough slack time to allow for delay due to traffic if the cab is slow so I won't miss the train, take the train to B - - -. Oops, I forgot to eat breakfast. Go back. Add that time to hotel check out. Oops --- There is a line to check out, so add a few more minutes more there, too. Start over. I can't catch the 7:30 am train and the next one is at 11:30. So I'll need a packed lunch for the train trip, but the delay to 11:30 gives me the time to buy a sandwich. I get to B at 3PM find the cab stand, get to the hotel, check in and all I have time for that day is a quick walk and supper. So a three and a half hour train trip used up the whole day. Maybe I should have used a car. Assume it is already rented. Substitute getting the car out of the parking lot, getting gas, driving, finding parking at B, allowing time to stop for lunch somewhere, etc. Allow time for traffic jams and wrong turns. Substituting a drive for a train trip has no benefit, the day is still a travel day.

How many times do you want to do this? If you attempt less, you will do more.

mcsles

To be clear, I am thinking of adding a night to Bologna, and adding a night to either Verona or Ravenna. Skip Lucca 2 nights and add to a central Tuscany village or Agri stay and visit these other spots as day trips. Any advice on a location to possibly camp out for 4 to 5 nights and then see Perugia and or Assisi? Maybe something like this

Verona 3 nights visit PaduaBologna 5 nights visit Modena and Ravenna
Tuscany 4or 5 nights and visit Assisi etc?

Jean

You can slice and dice this anyway you like. You know how you like to travel and what your interests are. Your preference just doesn't appeal to me (and others), that's all.

Further to AJPeabody's post, I suggest you plot out every day of this itinerary, hour by hour, mile by mile, train ride by train ride. FYI, Google Map driving estimates are optimistic, so add at least 10% more time. Check Trenitalia for schedules, travel times, frequency of trains, etc. Don't forget time for meals, dealing with car rental offices (when they're open), and navigating your way to hotels and sightseeing without getting a ticket for violating no-traffic zones. Based on your interests, try to calculate how much time you'll spend in museums, archeological sites, shopping, etc. You may not mind forcing yourself to watch the clock and stick to the schedule, but I'd want to leave some blank time for the unexpected.

zebec

The latest 'Dream of Italy' TV episode (Kathy McCabe) focuses on Puglia, maybe a good watch to inform possible choices?
I am done. the tarantella

scrb11

?

That's an old show. Or are you saying she just released a new episode years after the others?

Dream of Italy is on Amazon Prime but some episodes you can only buy, not stream as part of your Prime membership. Highly annoying.

bon_voyage

Mcsles, you’ve already received much excellent advice so I’m going to put on blinders and add on just a bit.
If you click on my name, you’ll find trip reports to several of the places on your itinerary. I’ve not been to Milan, the Lake region, or Puglia, but of the other areas on you current itinerary, the highlights for me north to south were the Dolomites, Naples and the Amalfi Coast, and Sicily.

I don’t care to backtrack so would stop in Bolzano on the way from the Dolomites to points south. Likewise, after you pick up the the rental car in Salerno, visit Paestum on the way to your next destination. I enjoyed Amalfi at night, but given that you loved Ravello, that seems like the best choice for the Amalfi Coast. Perhaps one night in Agrigento with a view of the temples, particularly if you were to see the Villa del Casale on the way from Ragusa to Agrigento.

Looking forward to seeing how your plans develop.

janisj

Per Jean's post "FYI, Google Map driving estimates are optimistic, so add at least 10% more time". I totally agree but I think adding 10% is still optimistic. 25% is closer IME but some journeys could even take 50% longer when you factor in avoiding ZTLs, remote parking, road construction, congestion.

You seem to be accepting some of our comments by tweaking little bits and pieces. I honestly think you need to re-think the whole trip. Do you need to cover that much at such a fast pace? Does it really need to be a mammoth 65 day trip?? Could you go for maybe 3 or 4 weeks and just visit 4 or 5 regions and not the entire length of the country - and take another 3 or 4 week traip to other regions another time. You are in your 50's and obviously pretty fit so no need IMO to try to do everything in one crazy busy trip.

Leely2

Maybe I'm misreading your question--are you saying you want to see Umbria from Tuscany? If you want to see Perugia and Assisi, stay in Umbria. But I think I'm lost here.

Anyway, about four-five years ago I went with my niece and some friends and based in Spello (which is adorable but kinda boring IMO, however very easy to drive into/out of, which is what we wanted for day trips). So, I recommend it. It's very chill. Assisi isn't really that difficult to use as a base, either, and frankly unlike many folks, I find it easy to discover the peace and beauty behind the tatty tourist shops on the main drag after the mobs in the daytime are gone. It's beautiful.

Also, I agree with bon_voyage's thoughts above re: avoiding backtracking. I stayed in Bolzano overnight--the dread one-nighter!--on my way from Ortisei in the Dolomites to Arezzo in Tuscany. It was a nice way to break up the journey because I was traveling by train. Not advocating that you overnight there, just that it can be seen on your way "down" somewhere else.

Although the Parkhotel Laurin is excellent!

zebec

BV just commented on another thing that I too had wondered about---the apparent skipping of Villa Casale. For those interested in history anyway, its pretty much must-see.
Scrb, you are correct. That 'Dream of Italy' was not a new episode, I should've clarified that. But for itinerary-planners, it would probably be of some value. Good footage of Monopoli and also the place that Mrs Z and I jokingly refer to as trulli madly deeply ('Alb.') wisely shot early morn before bus tour madness ensued. The result of that atmospheric footage was among the best we've seen.

I am done. the advices

mcsles

Thanks all. Zebec I read about the Sicily Villa you referred to. I honestly did not mention too many sites to visit at this point. I am trying to determine a comfortable flow from north to south. Our last 2 trips overseas were to France in 2018 and Australia and the south island of New Zealand in 2019. Both trips were 7 weeks in length. I think we are both comfortable with the time spent on the journey. Now we are just trying to get a little help with which towns/ regions rank highest among fodor's travelers who have been to these places before. Many of you have seen these towns, I am only reading about them. We appreciate your help

Leely2

Oh, I think the length of the trip is fine. I'm just thinking that some of these places are really close to each other and you can consolidate your overnight stays here and there. That will give you a bit more flexibility with day trips in case you sometimes just want sleep in or be lazy or go someplace not on the original agenda.

mcsles

Leely2, I would very much value your opinion on how that would look.

janisj

I actually don't have a problem with the length of the trip per se - I've taken a few 6 to 8 week trips. My main issue is that a 2+ month trip where one is almost constantly on the go would be crazy making for me.

When I've taken longer trips they were something like three or four full week stays in rental cottages / villas / flats in different regions, with a series of 4 to 7 days of one and two nighters in between the longer stops. A longer stay in one place allows one the flexibility to do out and back day trips, give wiggle room in case the weather goes pear shaped, really explore and get to know an area, a 'home' to come back to in the evening (60 days of eating every meal out is not only expensive but can be tiring. Sometimes I just want to stay in, veg out, read/watch telly, do laundry and re-group). And a HECK of a lot less packing and unpacking.

bilboburgler

just catching up this thread

I think you have two many visits and you are missing out too much. Certainly I'd drop Rome and Verona. Naples and Capri just reduce your time and make Capri a day trip

I think your Sicily sites are good but you need to cut out some stays for example visit Agrigento but don't stay the night.

Puglia, you've missed some of the best bits.

mcsles

Bilboburglar, thanks for chiming in. I am not opposed to making Bologna a hub for instance. My frustration is having not been to Verona or Ravenna, I am relying on a guidebook or someone trip report as to whether or not we visit.
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Just reading bikerscott I believe report from 2014 to Bologna. While we are not much in the way of day drinkers we love to walk in the pretty towns and absorb the beauty. If there happens to be a church or museum ok. We are not so moved by art museums.
What I would be curious is if I had to pick Padua, Ferrara or Ravenna which would be first to visit?

Leely2

Could you put your revised itinerary (if it's revised at all) down here again, and indicate where you plan to have a car? I wouldn't for example, want to deal with a car in Bologna.

Jean

The problem with soliciting advice about this town or that town, neither, both, how much time, etc., is that you're not going to find total consensus. About the only thing the posters here agree on (and it's only a "general" agreement at that) is that you're trying to do/see too much, even with such a generous amount of time.

mcsles

Thanks Jean and all for your comments and honesty.
Milan 4 nights visit Bergamo
Car hire2 nights Lake Orta2 nights Lake Como
4 nights Ortesei Dolomites dump car in Bologna or nearby
5 nights Bologna visit Modena Ravenna
At this point I am thinking of heading to somewhere in south Tuscany near Montepulciano or Umbria for 5 nights to stay and then day trip to hill towns. If train or bus allow I would prefer lodging in this town . Train to Naples
3 nights Naples day trip to Capri or do it from Positano
3 nights Positano
3 nights Ravello visit Paestum
Hire car drive to Puglia first 2 nights in Ostuni
2 nights Lecce. Would consider combining these to one location but I would like to see both areas.2 nights Matera.
Drive to Reggio Calabria to dump car Sicily, someone mentioned eliminating a stay in Catania. I originally planned 3 nights in Taormino, Catania and Siracusa. So revising this I could extend a night or two in either Taormino or Siracusa
Taormino 4 nights Catania visit from Taormino or Siracusa
4 Nights Siracusa
3 nights Ragusa
Visit Valley of the Temples
2 nights Trapani
4 nights Palermo minus car. Fly to Rome 4 nights Rome
Fly to Chicago
Thanks everyone for all your comments.

Leely2

I haven't been to the Lakes and had a trip to Puglia and Basilicata planned for June 2020--well, you know how that ended up, so cannot comment there except it seems a long way to go for such a short amount of time, but only you now how important it is to you.

RE: At this point I am thinking of heading to somewhere in south Tuscany near Montepulciano or Umbria for 5 nights to stay and then day trip to hill towns. If train or bus allow I would prefer lodging in this town."

I would hire a car for this part. As I mentioned before, you could stay in Spello, very easy driving in and out of that town. Other choices could be Assisi itself, Bevagna, Spoleto (maybe too far south for what you want to see, but I like Spoleto).

Train to Naples
3 nights Naples day trip to Capri or do it from Positano
3 nights Positano
3 nights Ravello visit Paestum

I'd be inclined to stay in either Positano or Ravello rather than moving, but it's your trip.

Taormina 4 nights Catania visit from Taormina or Siracusa
4 Nights Siracusa
3 nights Ragusa
Visit Valley of the Temples
2 nights Trapani
4 nights Palermo minus car. Fly to Rome 4 nights Rome
Fly to Chicago

This looks fine to me. Never been to Taormina or Trapani. Can you take a night from Taormina or Siracusa and do a one-nighter in Agrigento? It's wonderful seeing the temples lit up at night and drives seemed really long to me for some reason in Sicily. It's a big island, don't underestimate here.