This is our first family trip to Europe. We are planning to spend seven days in Italy-Rome, Florence, Venice and then five days in Switzerland - Geneva, Zurich and back to Rome. <BR> <BR>1) Are train fares purchased from U.S. different than purchasing locally in Italy? <BR> <BR>2) Is it important to make train reservations or can we just board a train and find seats? (We plan to travel from city to city at night -after 7 p.m. or early morning. ) <BR> <BR>3) Is second class train travel convenient and comfortable? Is there much difference in amenities between 1st and 2nd class in train? <BR> <BR>4) Has anyone traveled from Venice to Geneva by train? Are second class seats comfortable enough if we are going from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. or do we need sleepers? (sleepers cost $85 per person extra!) <BR> <BR>We do want to economize but not suffer hardship. You know what I mean. <BR> <BR>Any suggestions and guidance will be appreciated. Thanks.

Sam, <BR> <BR>I can address only one part of your question... I am going to France and Italy next month (first time) and when I bought my Eurail pass at the end of May, I had my travel agent make reservations for the three overnight trains that I planned on taking IN JULY (Paris-Venice, Rome-Nice, Nice-Paris). All SEATS were already booked for the Paris-Venice train and the Nice-Paris train (being on a limited budget, I was hoping to settle for seats, rather than couchettes, or sleeper cars). I ended up having to reserve couchettes for these trains. I guess what I'm saying is that these trains appear to fill up rather quickly and you might be gambling by not making reservations. <BR> <BR>

Sam, <BR> <BR>1) Almost certainly you'll find fares bought in Europe will be higher than purchasing (in your case) a Europass. A Europass, not to be confused with a Eurailpass, allows travel in 5 countries, including Suisse and Italy and is flexible, i.e. X days in 2 months. <BR>2) Most if not all long distance trains require a reservation, regardless of class. <BR>3) Subjective question. Most 2nd class travel is fine, you won't we sharing a seat with a crate of chickens. <BR>4)On this one you might entertain a sleeper, 2nd class seats are not conducive to sleep. But be aware, you can't hardly get nowhere direct (no changes) from Venezia. <BR>You have a wonderful trip to look forward to! <BR>

For all informations regarding trains in Italy there is the Official Italian Train Web-site: http://www.fs-on-line.com/ <BR>

Here's something to think about: consider what this whole trip is costing you and the experience you're hoping to get for your money. Then consider whether it's worth risking a whole day of being tired and incoherent because you slept in a seat in order to save $85. I want to economize as much as the next person, but once I'm spending the money to travel to Europe, I'm more than willing to drop another $85 to ensure I will be rested enough to enjoy it! Another thing to consider, that not everyone knows: although a first class Europass is quite a bit more than second class, if you buy TWO passes you get the second at 40% off, so the sum total works out to maybe $40 more per pass. Second class is reasonably comfortable, but there's one BIG advantage to 1st class...because 1st class indivdual tickets are much more expensive, far more people travel 2nd class, leaving 1st class much less occupied. If you want to save money by avoiding reservations, you take a chance of standing or not even getting on a 2nd class car, but I've never boarded a 1st class car with no available seats!

<BR>hi - you didn't request this info but I just want to pass on some advice. We used to take the trains alot (loved it) and the only time we ever had problems with gypsy kids (thieves) was in the Milan station right before departure. They'd come on at last minute, looking for easy targets , checking each compartment in the car. I obviously looked "easy" (small and blonde and sitting by myself), My husband (big and Italian looking - well he is actually!) sat across from me next to an obviously local <BR>Italian woman. As they approached me, waving scarves, and talking (begging) in a sing-song voice, Iput on my most nastiest face, and used a firm voice (gee, just like I do with my dogs!) and held my leg up like I was going to kick them and to keep them from getting closer while my husband and the elderly lady yelled at them to get the h--- out of there. They left..quickly! <BR>So just be careful and you'll have a great time!

Sad to say, but that is exactly the advice we received from my husband's cousin who is in the Tuscan government in dealing with the gypsy kids---scream and yell and act very threatening. They are, after all and very sadly, only little girls who have been taught to act as they do. As long as you are aware they're around, they are not that much of a problem---or maybe, I'm a really scarey lady!!!!! <BR>

Our family just returned from Italy ( Rome, Perugia, Florence, Venice, Como, Milan). We found a real mixed bag with the trains.We didn't have any sort of rail passes, tho we wished we had.Some 2nd class trains cars were comfortable and spacious, others were crowded. We stood for nearly three hours on a hot crowded train from Florence to Venice--it was a Friday night. If you don't speak Italian, find out as much as possible before you go. We stood in l-o-n-g lines and had trouble getting the info we needed. Most of the time the travel was great tho--and a real adventure! Have fun!

One of the most fascinating things I discovered on a train trip from Rosenheim (just south of Munic) to Venice was the bathroom on the train. <BR> Not to sound gross...but if you lift the the toilet seat, you find yourself staring straight down at the railroad tracks underneath! The human waste is simply dumped on the tracks! (And this was 1n a first-class cabin.)There are signs saying using the restroom is forbidden when the train is stopped at a station. I didn't find this on a train from Venice to Florence...or from Florence to Rome a few days later. Geez...I feel sorry for the people who live in those breath-taking villages along the tracks in the Alps. Can you imagine some little kid walking home from school, crossing or walking along the tracks? Yuck! <BR> But the train-compartment itself was really, really wonderful...definitely worthy of 1st class. <BR>But those restrooms in that particular train....

Strongly recommend that you go first class and buy your tickets in advance. Use www.raileurope.com to check out schedules and prices. Then have your travel agent buy the tickets. First class is a little extra but well worth it when travelling during the tourist season. Also safer but always keep an eye on your bags. Buying in advance saves confusion and long lines in busy train stations. Also suggest that you think about travelling from Venice to Geneva during the day - there is great scenery all the way. If you're stuck going from Zurich back to Rome to fly out, make that a night trip. Sounds like a great trip - enjoy!

Strongly agree with the above post---1st class and reserve ahead from here. The dollar is very strong right now and those trains are going to be very crowded! Whether you sit up or book a sleeper for an overnight trip is a matter of whether you are a good sleeper in a seat. Trains for me are like a strong sleeping pill--I have a hard time staying awake in the daytime! But, I can't sleep without medication on a plane. Go figure. But wise advice from the person who said not to jeopardize your wonderful trip for $85 to sleep. You are saving on hotel bills, right? <BR>

I agree wholeheartedly with the above posts. Reserve to avoid disappointment and longer layovers in cities, considering that you don't have that much time to spare in the event you can't make connections. Also, try to find out where the 1st class compartment will stop on the platform (hard on Italian trains) as often you'll only have a couple of minutes to board.

Just returned from a self-guided tour that began in Geneva and ended in Rome (June 17 - July 4). Because we were traveling independently (and after careful research & pondering our options) we chose to try to make our trip as stressless as possible: we got all the info off the Rail Europe website and went down to our local AAA and had them purchase the tickets. The AAA agent did the whole transaction over the phone, we use dour Mastercard, and received our tickets within 5 business days (did this about 2 months before so the tickets were paid by the time we took the trip). Having lived in both countries I knew that 2nd class in Switzerland would be fine but chose 1st class for Italy. Purchasing in advance and the latter choice were the BEST decisions we made! My advice is to reserve 1st class seats from Venice to Geneva and don't bother with the sleepers. One little luxury that we treated ourselves to was purchasing little inflatable travel pillows (they go around your neck). Not only were they GREAT to have on the plane but were ideal for naps on the train. We also had thought of traveling at night but chose to travel during the heat of the day in *air conditioned* trains. We're SO glad we did because it allowed us to join in the fun of being out at night (usually until 11pm) with the rest of the Italians. Buon Viaggio!

<BR> <BR>You may well find it worth while to buy the Thomas Cok European imetable at 35 US dollars, using a credit card, on US toll free 800-367-7984. You then know at any place where and when your next train goes. <BR> <BR>Nights in seats are restless. The supplement for a second class sleeper is sixty US dollars. But that for a couchette is 25 dollars. Couchettes are 6 to a cabin, wherewas sleepers are 3 to a cabin, and have a washbasin in each cabin. The Simplon Express leaves Venice Mestre (not Santa Lucia) at 2204 and arrives at Geneva airport at 0642. A train with couchettes and sleepers only leaves Venice S L at 2328 and arrives at Zurich at 0853: the fare on this includes a light breakfast. <BR> <BR>A similar train leaves Zurich at 2207 and arrives at Rome Termini at 0924: it, too, offers a light breakfast. <BR> <BR>Please write again if I can help further. Welcome to Europe. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London