Hello -

Next summer (last week in June, first week in July) will be our first trip to Italy. We are trying to use frequent flyer points, so we must reserve way in advance. There are six of us in our group - my husband and I, 2 teens, and my husbands parents (mid 60s and catholic). Although we are very capable drivers, it sounds like train travel may be easier and less stressful than renting a car. After much research with travel guides and reading this message board, I have changed my mind a million times. This is a huge trip for all of us and I want to get it right! My itinerary ideas have ranged from going many places for a couple of nights at a time, to staying in one place for a week and doing day trips. I think I'm somewhere in the middle now:

Fly into Venice - stay 3 nights
Florence - stay 2 nights
Tuscany region - Siena maybe? - 4 nights
Rome - 4 nights. Fly home from Rome.

Questions:
1. Is it fine to fly into Venice and out of Rome, or is there some reason I would want to reverse it?

2. How is my distribution of days in each place - too many nights anywhere?

2. Is it easy enough to stay in the countryside (somewhere like Siena) and do day trips from there by bus or train? Should we break it up by staying in 2 different places in the countryside? Is it practical to rent a car for only this portion of the trip?

3. Cinque Terre sounded like a good stop until I read about the crowds in the summer. This is one of the places I eliminated when I was paring down the itinerary. . .is this a mistake?

4. Is it practical to do a day trip to Pompeii from Rome? This is one of the places that we would really like to see.

5. We will certainly see the big Catholic hot spots, but are there any hidden Catholic treasures that my in-laws would appreciate?

6. And finally, I have read several negative remarks about Rick Steves on the message boards. I've even seen his name used as an adjective, as in "it is very Rick Stevey." I don't get it, someone help me. I thought his guide seemed very informative.

Any help you can provide will be very much appreciated! And I promise to write a trip report when we return in hopes of helping others.

Hi Kelly,
I will take a quick stab at answering your questions.

1. Flying into Venice and out of Rome is fine. You could do the opposite as well. I don't think the price will be very much different, as I have done both, but you should compare. Those two cities work fine for open jaw tickets.

2. Your days as distributed look good to me. I've done a similar combination of days for 4 cities. It is a good spread for a first trip. It looks like enough variety to keep everyone interested.

3. Cinque Terre is lovely, but not this trip, in my opinion. As a day trip, it would mean you would miss out on a day in Florence or another area of the Tuscan countryside. From this trip, you will be planning another one to Italy, I swear! You will be back!

4. The area around Siena is fine for a base for day tripping. My first choice would be southern Tuscany, the Val D'Orcia - Pienza, Montepulciano, Montelcino and many other lovely hill towns. You could visit Siena from there as well, or choose to stay closer to Siena, the Crete Sienese.

5. Pompeii. Fascinating. You could do it as a day trip from Rome - it is a long day trip. I love Rome, it is my favorite city in the world, so I would rather spend every minute there, but everyone would probably enjoy seeing Pompeii. I think that is going to come down to personal choice. You will love Rome (I hope!), you may not want to leave!

6. Italy is one Catholic treasure after another. I love the Brancacci Chapel in the Church of Santa Maria del Carmine in Florence - brilliant frescoes that illustrate the life of St. Peter. And St. Peter's Basilica. It just makes me cry. But you know that one already....

7. Rick Steves - people love him, or not. Such a comment may refer to being someplace very popular with tourists. But we are all tourists, aren't we? I've never quite understood that myself. I wouldn't call myself a fan, but I give the man his due. He has opened a lot of people's eyes to the wonders of European travel. Take whatever comments you see at face value, I guess.

Hope my humble opinions help!
Have a great trip....planning is half the fun!

This sounds like a good plan to me, however, as much as I love Tuscany, and yes, I think Siena is a great base--it's an incredible place--I would take one day away from there and add it to Venice, partly because you'll undoubtedly need the first day after arriving to regroup, and also, because IMO, Venice is so magical.

I agree with you about trains, especially since you're staying mostly in cities, and also because it really is easy to get around Italy by train or bus (the bus is actually better between Florence and Siena).

Siena is a good base in Tuscany--my daughter has been there since March and we visited her for a week in May and it was very easy to do day trips from there, but Siena has much to see and we had great meals every night we were there.

Personally, I think Rick Steves is terrific and have attended many of his workshops (I live in Seattle) and have friends that have gone on his tours and loved them. I prefer independent traveling and love the planning, but if I were to go on a tour, I'd probably go on one of his. He's a great source of information (as is Fodors).

Can't comment on your other questions, but think it's great that you're starting to plan now and am sure this will make for a fabulous trip.

Oops. I forgot to address your question about trains. You will be fine taking a train from Venice to Florence. For the Tuscan countryside portion of your trip, you will want a car, but there are others here who may give you more info about doing it without. I imagine its tough! You could rent your car in Florence, at the end of your time in Florence, and return it in Rome; you won't need the car in Rome at all, so don't plan on having it there!

Kelly:

I don't feel qualified to answer all of your questions...but here are a few thoughts:

*Pompeii is going to be a very long daytrip from Rome. You might want to consider spending some time in the Amalfi Coast area and visit Pompeii as a day trip from that locale.

*You might want to buy yourself some extra days by establishing Florence or Siena as a "home base," and then exploring each area by day. Florence and Siena are not that far away from each other.

*Don't scrimp on the Vatican. Allow at least one day, and realize that might not be enough. It is everything you've heard and more...and that's coming from an evangelical Protestant. A religious site you don't hear as much about is the Catacombs, which are outside Rome (take the St. Calixto busline and you'll pass those ancient viaducts you always saw in elementary history textbooks). The Catacombs are deeply moving for believers and unbelievers alike.
*In Rome (and elsewhere) consider staying in convents. They're clean, very well priced, and usually in good locations. They won't work if you're a party animal (there's a curfew) but it sounds as if your group would be a good fit. Be prepared to pay cash and make a deposit payment before leaving home.

Italy is a fantastic place to visit. I hope you have a great trip.

1. Either one is fine.
2. This is a personal preference. I would suggest taking one night from Venice and adding it to Florence. Although I preferred Venice, you can really see much of the beautiful city in 2.5 days - it's quite compact. Florence has a lot to offer and just seeing the Duomo, Accademia, Uffizi Gallery, etc. will fill up your time. Siena is a great base for Tuscany. Rome was my least favorite of the three cities, but it does warrant 4 nights, especially if you want to take a daytrip to Pompeii or travel to the outskirts of the city to see the catacombs. You'll want at LEAST one full day for the ancient Rome sights alone.
3. I think you are fine with Siena. You can rent a car or take a bus or train anywhere you need to go (Pisa, Lucca, San Gimignano, etc). Bus is often a good option because train strikes are quite common in Italy which disrupts train service anyway. Renting a car would be best given the number of people in your group though.
4. I don't think with your itinerary you could add in Cinque Terre, unless you cut out a city.
4b. Yes, you can make it Pompeii fairly easily from Rome. It will be a full day's trip because there is so much to see.
5. I can't answer this. The Last Supper by Da Vinci might be a highlight but I don't even know where it is located (Milan? I have no idea).
6. I despise Rick Steves and his arrogance/anti-American attitudes. Frommers, tripadvisor.com and these message boards are all you need in my opinion.

I do agree with the post that suggested the catacombs for a Catholic outing. I am not Catholic but as a Christian, it's a powerful experience to see what the original churchmembers had to go through to worship freely. I found it very moving.

One comment that no one has touched on...if you are planning on using FF miles next summer, you need to book them NOW! Call the airline, find out when they are booking through (usually 330 or 335 days ahead of time). Call at midnight on the day they load your outbound flight, and book it. They'll hold the reservation until you can call back and book the return. If you really want 6 tickets, you might need to be very flexible, and might have to take different flights. That is the busiest time of year, and very few FF seats are available.

Last year, booking seats for Sept 04 in Oct 03, booked the outbound, and my friend booked a different outbound flight than I did. By the time we booked the return (10 days later), she changed her mind and wanted to switch to my flight. No go...no more free seats on the JFK-Venice portion. She had to stick with her original itinerary (which sent her via Paris, landing in Venice about 4 hours after me).

So....get your tickets now, and plan the middle later!!

Anne

I think you're getting some very good advice here. I'll add my answers to what I know from my experiences.

Questions:
1. Yes, it's fine to fly into Venice and out of Rome, or vice versa. The only reason I might do it the other way around is to get the more relaxing time at the end. But that's a matter of preference. Landing in Rome with all it's busy-ness may seem overwhelming so you may want to start at the north end and move south.

2. I would also rob Venice of one day and put it on Florence or even Rome. Venice will be hot and packed with tourists, and it is compact. Two days will be plenty, unless your a VenicePhile who needs two weeks there.

5. Catholic "hot spots" -- Don't miss St. Peter in Chains Church, south of the Trevi Fountain and East of the Forum. It has the chains that held Peter in Rome. Also don't miss the Mamartine Prison -- it's in the Forum area. This is where Peter was jailed, where a spring came out of nowhere and he baptized fellow detainees. You might check the Vatican schedule for the weeks of your visit...we ended up at the Mass of Thanksgiving for Mother Theresa and got to see the whole shebang...and we didn't know we needed an invitation from the Pope Himself, so we walked right in like we were just going through routine security checks. We're Lutherans, so we didn't know, and they didn't check us for proper Catholic credentials.

6. I say ignore all the bad stuff about Rick Steves. He's a great guy who knows his stuff and is trying his best to encourage the first-time European traveler, believing that Americans will benefit from seeing something outside of another trip to Yellowstone or The Grand Canyon, which are both fantastic places, of course...His books/tours/videos (you can find his videos at your local library) are outstanding, he encourages people to embrace the cultures they're visiting and be a responsible travler, and as far as I'm concerned, his guidebooks have the best information -- most up-to-date and most concise of any other guidebooks I've read, and I've read a few. I only find -- after going to Paris for a second time -- that I want MORE information than a first-time user, so I've expanded my reading list, but I still bought his new book for London and Paris 2005.

ENJOY your trip! Italy is WONDERFUL, and I particularly enjoyed Venice and Florence. Rome was also fantastic, but I found it overwhelming in some respects. There's a fast pace and edge to the people -- sorta like New Yorkers are known to be a bit rough. But in all reality, they're good people too. For me, it was a matter of adjusting my pace and changing my expectations, then all went fine.

Happy Travels!

Jules

Kelly1122, I like your distribution of days! You have obviously done your research.

I wouldn't suggest doing Pompeii as a day-trip from Rome because you need a minimum of 4 hours to spend on the Pompeii site, which is fairly large and easy to get lost in. My teens loved running around on their own and exploring Pompeii last summer. BUT the annoying thing about seeing Pompeii is you really should get to Naples or Sorrento for 2 nights and get a hotel there as a base for seeing Pompeii. Transportation to Sorrento isn't so simple. You can get a train to Naples but many people, including locals in Rome and experienced travellers on-line, warned us to be cautious in Naples because of crime. So we weren't too eager to go to Naples. We stayed 2 nights in sorrento just to see Pompeii and to get a driving tour of the Amalfi coast area.

I would skip the Amalfi coast area on a first trip, but that's a personal opinion...based upon the fact that I live in California and we have lots of scenic coastline. I would rather see Rome, Venice, and Tuscany.

My teens loved Rome the best on our trip.

Rick Steves had the best restaurant recommendations! Good food for good prices, family-run restaurants, where the locals eat! Our #1 favorite restaurant in Italy was in rome, Ristorante der Pallaro, and we found it in Rick Steves guidebook.

The only problem with Rick Steves guidebooks is he only includes his favorite places. He doesn't include all of Italy. So if you want to include someplace that isn't his favorite you need a fodors guidebook.

I had a pile of guidebooks for Italy, it was great fun to plan!

If you want more info about our first family trip to Italy, with our 17, 18, and 22-year-old, write to me at [email protected] and put "Italy family trip" in the subject line. (I screen my e-mails before deciding whether to open them.)

Yes, take the train...it's fun and very convenient, by the way! Within the city you can walk, get a taxi, or take the public bus for cheap.

Buon viaggio!

Hi K,

Good plan,

I think I would also add a day to Venice and reduce Florence/Tuscany by a day.

Florence is an hour's drive from Siena, I wouldn't pack and unpack between the cities. The SITA bus is a good way to go between them.

If you base in Siena, I suggest you rent a car to tour Tuscany. You can drop it off in Orvieto and train into Rome.

If you base in Florence, you can visit Siena, Lucca, Bologna, Orvieto, Montepulciano in under 2 hr.

Pompeii is a loooooooooong daytrip from Rome. You might want to consider the ruins at Ostia Antica.

Train schedules and prices at www.trenitalia.com.

Car rentals at www.novarentacar.com and www.autoeurope.com

Bus schedules at http://www.sita-on-line.it/
and
http://www.sangimignano.net/bus/

Have a nice visit.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice. This board has been so helpful!

I have tried to snag our frequent flyer tickets, calling at exactly midnight on the day they were supposed to become available. However, Delta did not release any sky miles tickets for flights to Venice in this timeframe. Not only that, they won't say when or if they will release them, causing me to have to call daily to check. Sounds like a waste of time. . .we may actually have to buy tickets, a shame when we have so many miles that seem impossible to use!

Kelly,

My experience with Delta and trying to redeem FF miles has been mixed to say the least. I called a year in advance, got mixed info with each agent I spoke with and found some agents to be extremely rude and unhelpful. Others were angels! I finally got my flight booked, then it took me 6 months to wrangle a change on the return, but I finally did it.

Keep calling until you get a good, willing, and helpful agent!

I recently booked with Delta for next year going into Venice and back from Rome on miles aand fortunatly was able to get 4 nin-stop tickets on my first try.

When I had looked at flights into or out of Naples instead of Rome or Venice - they were not able to help me becuase their partner on thoswe routes did not release seats yet.

Just a thought - maybe when you call back ask if they are all Delta flights or if partner airlines are included.

Good luck!