Dear Fodorites

We (2) have 12 days in Italy (from Zurich in a car, which we need to return back to Zurich)and have tentatively planned:
Val Gardena - 3 days
Cinque Terre - 3 days
Tuscany (either San Gimignano / Montepulciano/ Siena?) - 3 days
Umbria (Spello?)- 3 days
Back to Zurich (where we spend a few days in the Berner Oberland Area)

We have been to Rome, Venice, Pisa, Milan and Florence on earlier trips. We are interested in stunning views, mountain areas and a bit of art and architecture.

Is is a doable itinerary? I know that we would have problems with parking in Cinque Terre, but we enjoy driving and in CT plan to park the car and use the local train / bus service.

Please comment on the itinerary and its sequencing. Any links to suggested driving routes would be appreciated.
Thanks

You have selected a lovely itinerary. The one thought that comes to mind is that you really do have to consider the traveling time between locations.

For instance, the driving time from Val Gardena to Vernazza is at least five hours. That five hours will take a large chunk of your day from either your time in Val Gardena or Cinque Terre. So you will really won't have three days in each location.

Decide what you plan to do in each area first, and that will help guide you as to if you need more time in one particular area.

If this were my trip, I would eliminate one of the locations and spread those days to the remaining areas.

Carol

You should of course see exactly what you want to see in terms of sights, but if your main reason for being attracted to the Tuscany/Umbria area is to savor the Italian interior, I would recommend you ponder a map and see if there is one place you could stay the whole six nights and have your Tuscan/Umbrian experience without changing hotels. Near Cortona? Use mappy.com or via Michelin to double check your drive time estimations.

Don't forget you have the option of ferry service in the Cinque Terre. Ferries run from Levanto, Lerici and Portovenere. Also, since you have a car, and if you've an appetite for adventure, you can also plunge straight up into either the Ligurian entroterra or the Garfagnana as a day trip from Cinque Terre. These are places were very few tourists go and it can be rather amazing to find these towns perched on hillsides. Some weeks ago I was driving near Varese Ligure in the mountains, and I stopped in a nearly empty town to look at some lazily reclining stone angels on a gate beside a church, when suddenly the whole valley and hills began ringing with the most extrardinary carol of bells, from a painted pink steeple across the valley. What everybody is doing hidden up these hills is rather a mystery (some of the produce organic cheese) but it can be rather fascinating and pretty, once spring is over.

The Italian Touring Club has the very best information about the places you are going as a driver. You can get their books through Amazon, and they are well worth it.

Nice trip---a bit rushed but I still like it.
I have done similar itineraires and am a big fan of getting the car in Lugano and taking the trains in CH. I think I would save the Dolomites until last in Italy. Train to Lugano in the AM--get the car--and drive to the CT--about 3.5 hours. Then, end in Val Gardena and drive back to Lugano via Merano, the Engadine, and Menaggio. That will give you the best of natural beauty. We are doing that in Sep. Again, great trip--have fun planning.

Thanks for your responses Lorac1127, Zeppole and Bobthenavigator.

I know we will have a bit of driving to do, but between the 2 of us and around 15 hours daylight in May, it would be a stretch, but we are very enthusiastic travelers. I'm kind of keen on seeing the 4 areas, and am researching on a sightseeing list which we plan to use as a reference to see whats reasonably possible, given the time we have.

Zeppole, I like the idea of Cortona. We can do day trips both in South Tuscany and Umbria. As as alternate to Cortona, would Montepulciano be a good base?
On Cinque Terre - thanks for pointing out the ferry option. Between Ligurian entroterra or the Garfagnana, which is more scenic? For Ligurian entroterra, is there a town i can google on to get more information? Ligurian entroterra search was not very informative.

Bob - Like your idea about leaving Val Gardena at the end. I'm taking note of your suggested route back to SW.

Any driving itinerary links?

You can look and see that Cortona sits closer to a major highway, and closer to Umbria, than Montepulciano. But you probably need to use mappy.com or via Michelin to see the truth about drive times. And then you have to consider your interests: Wherever you pick, it is where you will come "home" to every night, presumably for dinner. Things you might want to consider too are ease of parking, density of restaurants you think you might like, the kinds of views you'd like to wake up, size of town, ratio of locals to tourists, etc.

I think the Garfagnana has the more dramatic scenery. And probably the most information online for touring:

http://images.google.com/images?clie...a=N&tab=wi

It's the area of the Val d'Aveto that I was referring to:

http://translate.google.com/translat...valdaveto.net/

and areas near the Vara river

http://74.125.43.102/translate_c?hl=...gukU6NjXwkPwMQ

and also, if you end up staying closer to Portovenere and Lerici, the region of Montemarcello:

http://translate.google.com/translat...valdaveto.net/

But once you get into the Cinque Terre, you may just prefer to get your spectacular views on foot, rather than in your car. Just remember if you are choking on tourists, the hills are empty.

By the way, if assume you are coming to Cinque Terre via Genova -- although a very long scenic route you could take in nice weather would route you through Bobbio and Torriglia, dropping down into Recco. But if you are taking the autostrade out of Recco, and you are looking for a marvelous lunch and scenic drive along the way, get off the autostrade at Recco and follow the signs to La Spezia -- but the town you are heading for is Ruta (5 minutes). You are traveling on Napoleon's via Aurelia.

http://www.prendicasa.it/images/1056...i/50334017.jpg

At Ruta, you can either take a sharp right and head off to San Rocco, for a first class pesto at Nonna Nina, or a first class panino at Bar Pippi. If you come on a weekend day, you will have to park in the paid lot and walk. Otherwise, drive to the end of the road.

http://www.nonnanina.it/eng/san_rocc...mogli.asp?pg=5

for one of the more spectacular views in Liguria, when you reach Ruta, bear a soft right under the archway for the Portofino Kulm and take the road up to the hotel for a double view of the Golfo di Paradiso and the Golfo del Tiguillo, stretching from beyond Genova to Cinque Terre. There is a restaurant up there, but you might prefer just to drop down to San Rocco.

Leaving Ruta, the via Aurelia continues -- all the way to Roma. However, it's best to take it no further than Rapallo, and follow the somewhat skimpy signage back to the autostrade, although barreling onto to Sestri Levante before returning to the autustrade can also be mildly amusing if you love to drive -- but it's all flat and a solid traffic jam on nice weekends and in high summer.

have a good time

Typo alert:

I should have typed, regarding lunch on the way to Cinque Terre:

"But if you are taking the autostrade via Genova'

I would estimate that by the time you leave the area of Genova, you need at least 45 minutes to an hour to get to a lunch spot near Ruta and San Rocco di Camogli. Nonna Nina is only open for lunch hours (and dinner), and you should reserve on weekends or in summer. Bar Pippi is open almost all the time, until 8pm.

Learn to use viamichelin.com for routings. You may need to insert intermediate stops for desired routing. For instance, Ortisei to Lugano via Merano and St. Moritz. If Zurich is your destination then that may be different. They may send you north to Innsbruck and then west.

Thanks Zeppole and Bobthenavigator. Sorry for the late post. Was having trouble with the net connection.

Zeppole - appreciate the detailed information (Ruta and San Rocco) and reco for Garfagnana. The link for the San Rocco reminds me of the santorini inland (blue dome)

I'm having trouble getting the Italian Touring Club (the shipping cost is higher than the cost of the map itself!! I'm from India) - so will buy that in Italy itself. In the meanwhile working with ViaMichelin (as recommended by this forum) and google maps (habit ).

Bobthenavigator - i understand what you mean on the intermediate stops as ViaMichelin recommended route to Zurich was via Innsbruck - you are spot on that.

One question on ViaMichelin - is the Sightseeing option reliable for planning purposes, or should one refer to the recommended routes?

Honestly, I have been a big fan of Viamichelin.com for years. But, I am getting frustrated with the new site and the programming--not nearly as user friendly. I am using Google maps more now. I suggest you deciding your own intermediate stops once the program gives you the big picture. Is Zurich a given? How many days to get there?

Hi Bobthenavigator - Zurich is fixed (free hotel) - Have planned a day to reach Zurich and like the route you have recommended - Lugano - Merano - Engadine - Menaggio. Thanks for the input.

travelbug,

just so there's no confusion, the italian touring club guide to which i am referring is a book, not a map, about the Italian Riviera

Hi Zeppole - You refer to the Atlante stradale d'Italia CENTRO 1:200.000 or Cofanetto Atlanti stradali d'Italia 1:200.000 from www.touringclub.com? Let me know if this is the right one.

On Amazon, there is a Shipping restriction to send this to India "Warranty issues and manufacturer restrictions prevent us from shipping certain products to all geographical locations." On the TCI website, postage costs 20 Euros (seems a bit high). Hence plan to pick up in Italy itself. Hope im on the right track. Please let me know. Thanks!!

This is the guide I am recommending:

http://www.amazon.ca/Italian-Riviera.../dp/8836521142

Thanks Zeppole..