Castellanese

Zeppole, does everybody have to agree with you all the time or are you one of those people who are just impressed by everything and feel offended when somebody isn't as easy to impress as you?

I did visit the Scrovegni Chapel and you know what? I was not impressed by it because I've never been a fan of Giotto's work.

The rest of the city is nothing to be excited about compared to other wonderful cities in Italy. This is just my opinion, though. I'm not trying to convince anybody because this forum isn't about that; it's about "giving opinions".

zeppole

This is only my opinion, so I'm sure you'll readily accept it, but I wouldn't take travel advice from someone who wasn't impressed by the Scrovegni, and I'd advise others to do the same.

Vttraveler

There is plenty to do in Florence if your focus is architecture and sculpture. The Bargello is an amazing museum for sculpture and fewer people visit it than the Uffizi and Academia.

As far as the Alps go, I think Innsbruck is a fine stop for an overnight/one day. I would not rank it with Salzburg or Vienna but for a stop with beautiful scenery on the main train line to Munich it would be fine. In northern Italy, we enjoyed stopping in Trent on our first trip over the Alps by train
years ago. Bolzano and Bressanone are other possible stops. The trip from northern Italy to Munich over the Brenner pass is beautiful and historically interesting. It is hard to imagine how Hannibal ever crossed these mountains with elephants!

Another place you could consider staying near Venice is Vicenza--best known for its Palladian architecture.

zeppole

It needs to be added that some of the best Palladian architecture in Vicenza is really only accessible by car if the primary reason for going to Vicenza is a keen interest in Palladio.

lindy,

I hadn't noticed your comment about her boyfriend's interest in sculpture so if he has yet to visit the Bargello, he might want to, even without overnighting in Firenze. In Bologna, Nicolo d'Arca's terracotta statuary in the church of Santa Maria delle Vita is worth going out of one's to see.

Were you staying in Ferrara, you might choose to day trip to Firenze over Ravenna, depending on your interests.

Castellanese

Zeppole, it's just your opinion but you advice others not to follow advice from somebody who wasn't impressed by the Scrovegni?

That means you don't think it's just "your opinion". It simply means that you think "you're right" and that's why everybody follow your advice.

Anyhow, I could care less if you think you're always right or not or if you're easy to impress. Twice I've given "my opinion" on this thread and on the "Garbage in Naples" thread and twice you have made rude remarks about them just because they don't match yours. If you don't agree with somebody, just leave your opinion and that's it.

Did your parents ever "stop" to teach you manners and to respect other people's opinion?

I left you a very rude message on the "Garbage in Naples" thread. It shows no manners whatsoever, but you're the kind of person who needs to be put in her place every now and then.

zeppole

Castellenese,

I didn't make rude remarks or tell people to ignore your travel advice because it doesn't agree with my opinion. I said what I said because you aren't well informed and you seem to be a particualarly dopey traveller.

It's not hard to find out BEFORE you go to Napoli where the high-end shopping streets are if you're interested. And it isn't hard to find out BEFORE you go to visit a church which artist painted its interior. You don't seek out the places that interest you, and then you tell other people where to go?

I'm not a "fan" of Gaudi (do you know who that is?), but when people talk about being interested in going to Barcelona, I don't imply to others it's not worth THEIR time to go. I just tell them that it's worth going if they have a strong interest in Gaudi. Do you see the difference?

You want to wave a flag for free speech and good manners. How about leading by example?

Thanks for warning me not to revisit that other thread!

thursdaysd

How about taking the Naples discussion back to the Naples thread? I'm almost sorry to agree with zeppole after this exchange, but I have to say that Ferrara is a good alternative base for a quick look at Venice. My first trip through Italy I stayed in Ferrara (www.borgonuovo.com/locanda.html - very nice place) and found the town much more interesting than I expected. I day tripped to Ravenna (not to be missed) and spent a quick three hours in Venice between trains - just long enough to take a vaporetto to St. Marks and the Rialto, and eat lunch, and decide I wanted to go back for a real visit.

I've taken the train through the Brenner pass twice - Innsbruck to Verona route - and thought the scenery spectacular. I've stayed in Castelrotto in the Dolomites (bus from Bolzano), and thought Bolzano a neat place,also.

zeppole

No thanks, thurs! But it's not about me, it's about lindy's trip -- and thanks for pointing that out.

poodle13905

hi there- my (30-something) husband and I stayed in Rome on a budget last year. We stayed at a place called The Beehive and it was perfect- the main location is like a very upscale hostel, with private rooms and lovely common areas (not grungy at all!) We stayed in the apartment, which was a few blocks from the train station and a bit funky to get to (elevator was tiny and fussy) but the room was amazing- the tallest ceilings I've ever seen, almost like staying in a basketball court (in a good way).

And, at that point in our trip, we were thankful for the free internet access at the common-area computer. There were 3 (I think) other rooms in the apartment but it was fine to share, and fun to meet nice people. Anyway, big "thumb's up" to The Beehive for those staying in Rome on a budget:

http://www.the-beehive.com/english.html

poodle13905

p.s. Since you are young and hearty, I suggest doing a day trip to Pompeii, instead of Ostia Antica. It is totally do-able to get to Pompeii and back in a day, and there are frequent trains.

(Plus, none of your friends has ever heard of Ostia Antica!)

zeppole

>>(Plus, none of your friends has ever heard of Ostia Antica!)<<

I think this is the big governor for a lot of people choosing destinations in Italia that are rich but not famous.

It's true that if you go to Ferrara or Ostia Antica in lieu of more touristed places, when you get home, people will say "What? You were in Italy and didn't go to ------??????"

Only you can judge how important that is to you.

(On the other hand, a willingness to explore new places can be another way to make friends, just like sharing books or movies you've both seen. When people say to you, "Ostia Antica? I've always wanted to go. How was your trip?" it's a clue you might have other interests in common.

Pompeii is a vast site which I don't think is enjoyable as a day trip, especially not from Roma, even as a notch in the belt for the young.

But if you're really interested, ask people who have been to both for their advice and have a basis for comparison. You can probably find a lot of them on the Slow Travel website.

Ematthew

Hi, can I make a suggestion? I agree with your idea of getting rid of the Cinque Terre and going to Siena instead. Siena is closer to Florence. Beautiful city and a lot to see and do. I think staying in Venice and doing to Padua as a day trip is still a lot of work. And Venice is worth staying in for a while and seeing well. Perhaps you’ll go back to Italy and could see Padua another time? You’ll have a great trip and there’s so much to do already in Venice.

lindy27

So much good advice!

The main reason Ostia Antica is on there instead of Pompeii is that my parents went to Ostia Antica a few years ago and couldn't stop talking about how cool it was. We also plan on going to southern Italy in a seperate trip as I could spend several weeks there easily.

I'm going to start looking at a spot in the Alps to stop instead of taking the night train. I think either Innsburck or Bolzano.

I have heard of the Beehive and am glad to hear it was a good place to stay! That will be added to my list, it sounds perfect for us.

We also narrowed down our stay in Venice to either Venice (if we find it cheap enough) or Ferrara.

zeppole

>>I think staying in Venice and doing to Padua as a day trip is still a lot of work.<<

I don't know why. It's a very easy half hour train trip. Most people do go to see Capella degli Scrovegni, which is a 15-minute walk from the train station.

You make a reservation, but that can be done online. It's true, you will have to wait in an outer area to be admitted (for reasons of climate control) but the site is very small and one's whole visit is no more than a half hour.

Of course you can't be in both Venezia and Padova at the same time. One has to choose between masterpieces. But if you want to see Giotto's masterpiece, it's simple to do when you're in Venezia. I was very glad I took time out of Venezia to see it, and equally glad I took the even longer trip to Torcello to see the mosaics there. I'm sure when you've done some research, you'll know how you want to organize your time -- unless you fall in love with the idea of being in Ferrara and visiting Ravenna, yet another set of masterworks to choose from.

ExplorerB

lindy,

Allow me to echo the thoughts of Thursday and place a vote for Bolzano. If you're seeking a taste of the Dolomites, do consider using this small city as a base. It has a good tourist infrastructure, without being tourist trampled, and features the first-rate South Tirol Archaeological Museum, complete with the preserved remains of Otzi, a 5,300-year-old man. You had expressed an interest in history, and this fine museum would be just the ticket. While getting around from Bolzano is doable with public transport, I've found a rental car is preferable. Also, when staying in Bolzano, consider lodging at the Hotel Figl. This modern accommodation is super tidy, centrally located, and reasonably priced. After a hearty breakfast, you'll be ready to make daytrips into the magnificent mountains of northern Italy. By the way, Thursday is also correct about Kastelruth (aka Castelrotto), a very charming village in the heart of the mountains.

www.figl.net

Best of luck.

Castellanese

I'm very sorry Lindy for using your post for this.

"I don't know if you know how to read, Zeppole, but the whole time I wrote: "In my opinion, I think, I didn't". I never said: "There aren't, it's a fact, etc."

Since "you do know better", why don't you enlight us with your wisdom and say: "you didn't check this or that part of the city". I thought we all were on this forum to learn from each other; I didn't know we were here to have a smart ass tell us off whenever we write something that doesn't match his/her opinion.

I even asked the guy from the shop in Spaccanapoli if there were any other shops like the one where he worked and he mentioned nothing but the places I mentioned above and "he" knows better than "you" do because the guy was a born and raised neapolitan.

You chose as a nickname a neapolitan sweet and you already feel you have the right to tell off anybody who doesn't agree with you concerning Naples? I said it before and I'll say it again: I think that shopping in Naples wasn't a big deal compared not only to northern cities like Turin, but also compared to southern cities like Palermo.

Please, Zeppole, next time you see a post written by me, ignore it. I don't want you to enlight me with your knowledge even if you're the only smart ass who knows the answer".

Castellanese.

franco

Now this is hard to believe. A person who dismisses Padova in one sentence ("...wasn't impressed by it&quot dares aggrandizing him/herself to such an extent? And another poster says "I'm almost sorry to agree with zeppole after this exchange"? I mean how low can you go? zeppole's remarks were spot on, both on Padova and on Castellanese!

Let me tell you, Castellanese, that this forum is NOT about exchanging opinions, at least not opinions of every kind. If it's my opinion that gravity doesn't exist, who cares? If it's my opinion that Stockholm is the capital of Sierra Leone, who cares? This forum is about giving advice, and though it may surprise you, it's really about facts. Gravity is a fact. Stockholm is in Sweden, that's a fact. The Cappella degli Scrovegni is one of the most important art treasures world-wide, that's a fact. Knowing it is indispensable for any kind of understanding of the history of painting, that's a fact. No, you're not obliged to admire it, or to like Giotto in general. Yes, also your negative opinion on Giotto might be interesting here. But simply dismissing it as "didn't impress me", without even mentioning how important it is (if need be adding that, and why, it doesn't meet your taste) - that's definitely not an opinion, that's a disgrace without equal.
It's also not true that the rest of Padova is neglectable, there are other important sights, as well. Lindy, I think it depends on your main interests. As far as romantic air, out-of-this-world feeling, Venice is certainly incomparable, and your time there will be too short in any case. But if you happen to be interested in painting, go to Padova. At least, don't let nonsensical remarks like "wasn't impressed" deter you from visiting one of this planet's main sights.

zeppole

I think I'll stay out of this (except to say I'm not related to franco)

Vttraveler

lindy--it sounds as though you are pretty much set on Ferrara or Venice for that part of your trip.
For anyone else interested in the different cities that have been mentioned on this thread, I still think Vicenza w/o a car is a good option. There are many amazing Palladian buildings in the city center. Having a car to explore farther out would give you access to even more.

As for Ostia Antica, I agree with your parents' assessment. It is a fascinating place and much easier than Pompeii to see from Rome. One difficult thing about the layout is that the bookstore is located far from the entrance. If you want to buy a guide to understand what you are seeing this requires backtracking. Maybe you could find a guide somewhere in Rome before your visit to Ostia

If after all the back and forth about the frescoes in Padua you want to see some other works by Giotto, the frescoes in Santa Croce in Florence and the Stefaneschi triptych in the Pinacoteca section of the Vatican museums are well worth at least a detour in Michelin terms.

Castellanese

Well, Franco, I think this is unbelievable, too.

When I said at the beginning of the post that "I" wasn't impressed by Padova when I stopped there on my way from Florence to Venice, I meant it in the sense that I couldn't believe Lindy was dismissing staying in Venice and considering doing it as a day trip from Padova. Of course, I should've explained why I wasn't impressed, but I understand that it was for budget reasons and it's Lindy's trip at the end of the day. If her heart is set on basing in Padova, that's her decision and I'm nobody to talk her out of it like Zeppole and you, Franco, are assuming.

I never said it's not worth visiting the Scrovegni Chapel even though I wasn't impressed. I never said "Don't go to Padova" or "Don't visit the Scrovegni Chapel" did I? Just highlight the paragraph where I said that because I certainly missed it.

However, you know what is unbelievable, Franco? I write "my" opinion using the phrase "I think" and suddenly Zeppole feels the need to leave a rude remark about it both on this thread and on the Naples thread and people like Thursday and you, Franco, encourage her to do so. Bravo! Be rude, Zeppole!

One thing is to have freedom of speech and one thing is to respect other's opinion. However, Zeppole has the nerve to say: "set an example of freedom of speech, Castellanese". I am! I'm saying: "I think, in my opinion, etc", but saying what's on my mind about another person who's just said his opinion isn't freedom of speech, it's simply having no manners. What do you do, Zeppole? You go on the streets telling people: "you're this and you're that" because to you that's freedom of speech?

Zeppole makes rude remarks and also starts assuming things about the way I travel and I should say: "it's ok".

What does she think? That I was traveling on my to Venice and suddenly I saw the Padova sign and said: "oh, let's stop here". I did my research in advance with my bookguide and I just wasn't impressed. Explain why I wasn't impressed? That would be trying to talk Lindy out of a decision she already made. I just said: "I wasn't impressed with Padova when I stopped there" and then Zeppole starts implying that I didn't visit this or that place and that's when I finally said that I wasn't impressed with the chapel, but I repeat, I never said: "Lindy, I wasn't impressed with the chapel so don't go there and don't go to Padova". Did I?

The same thing about Naples. Somebody else wrote on the Naples thread that she/he thought the shopping in Naples was uninteresting and that the whole city was a Hellhole. I just said that I also thought the shopping there was uninteresting (I never said anything about the city, though), but Zeppole felt the need to leave a rude remark about "my opinion" and assuming things that I never said. I planned my trip to Naples 6 months in advance using the help of this website and a bookguide. My bookguide mentioned that X and Y street were the places to do excellent shopping. I asked the clerk at the clothing store in Naples what places I should check for shopping in Naples and he mentioned exactly the same places my bookguide recommended. Is that improvising? Is that waking up and say: "I'm going shopping in Naples today"?, but Zeppole, again, feelt the need to leave a rude remark and assume that I only spent a day (I spent a week in Naples) and that I didn't check all the places devoted to shopping in Naples. I guess I must write a complaining letter to Tim Jepson who wrote the National Geographic bookguide of Naples and say: "Listen, you don't know what you're talking about" and go back to Naples and tell the neapolitan guy who helped me at the clothing store: "Listen, there are other places to shop in Naples and you didn't tell me anything about it".

But I guess is OK, Franco, for Zeppole to leave rude remarks and assuming things that aren't true and feel the need to tell everybody about it.

When somebody says something I don't agree with, I just leave my opinion and let others have their own conclusions, but apparently Zeppole's way is acceptable since you, Franco, and Thursday agree with her entirely.

Yes, Franco, it is unbelievable how you encourage that kind of rude behavior and it's incredible how you both assumed all those insane things you both have said from a simply:

"I wasn't impressed by Padova when I stopped there".