Italy foodie ideas/itinerary
Mar 2nd, 2016, 12:18 PM
#21
The first time we went to Venice we went to 'normal' restaurants. No one restaurant in Venice is for locals only so you get toursisty food and high prices (maybe locals don't).>>
as traveller says, the locals in Venice [who are a dying breed] know where to go to get the best food at the best prices. isn't' that what all of us do at home?
Do they pay less than tourists? probably [in fact I've heard from some ex-pat locals that some certainly do]. so what?
a tour of the local market will show you what it is season, as well the daily specials on the menu. Go for those, and you won't go too wrong.
as traveller says, the locals in Venice [who are a dying breed] know where to go to get the best food at the best prices. isn't' that what all of us do at home?
Do they pay less than tourists? probably [in fact I've heard from some ex-pat locals that some certainly do]. so what?
a tour of the local market will show you what it is season, as well the daily specials on the menu. Go for those, and you won't go too wrong.
Mar 2nd, 2016, 01:42 PM
#22
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Italian Days food tour in Bologna is outstanding. Alessandro is a hoot. There is so much food to eat during all the factory tours and then the 2 hour lunch you won't eat for a day. You can buy and bring back to the states cheese and balsamic vinegar so bring your credit card.This tour is worth every penny and then some. This was my husbands favorite day.
Mar 2nd, 2016, 02:09 PM
#23
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Robert, there are a number of things in your description of Italian cuisine that are inexact, but I really want to contest the following:
<i>Or another example: In Rome and Naples, nobody would eat pizza for dinner. Pizza is bought at a street stand and eaten like a sandwich. </i>
This is definitely not true. There are places where pizza is sold by the slice, and not only on the streets, but pizza is also eaten in a pizzeria, and traditionally <b> only </b> for the evening meal. The fact that many sit-down pizzerie in Rome (I don't know about Naples) sell pizza at lunch time is an innovation, probably for the tourists, and you often see signs that say "pizza tutto il giorno" or "pizza a pranzo", because it's unusual. If someone eats pizza for lunch, it would usually be bought by the slice and eaten on the go, by people who have a short lunch break and can't go home for lunch. Lunch is traditionally the main meal of the day, and the reason pizza is eaten in the evening is that it's considered a light meal.
I also wouldn't describe Tuscan cuisine as having much of a "Mediterranean" influence; olive oil is used more than butter, but that's true of central Italy as a whole. It's really a hearty, rather heavy, cuisine, heavy on meat (pork as well as beef), poultry, and beans, along with game and cured meats. Tuscany is famous for the bistecca alla fiorentina, but that certainly is not what defines the cuisine. Many Tuscans have never even had it.
I consider the cuisine of Le Marche to be among the best in Italy. (I must admit to perhaps a little bias, because that's where I live.) It has many influences of Emilia Romagna, its neighbor to the north, and also some similarities to the cuisine of Tuscany and Umbria, on its western borders. It also has centers of excellence for the prized white truffles, which are only in season from October through December, and which are at their best when very fresh. Some of the marchigiano specialties are exquisite. I would include the brodetto, a fish stew found on the seacoast, and the vincisgrassi, which is a heavenly version of lasagne, with the pasta (as my housekeeper says) rolled so thin you can read a newspaper through it.
I can't get any real sense of what a foodie is. In the old days a gourmet was someone who really knew a lot about food and how it was prepared, but it seems as though most foodies don't want to take the trouble. They follow lists or blogs that tell them where they should go to try certain things. I'm not saying all people who call themselves foodies fit this category, but I do see a lot of them asking about certain foods and certain restaurants that I can only call faddish.
For someone who really wants to learn about and experience Italian food, I would advise studying the differences between the different regions and what their specialties are. You usually make out best by ordering dishes that are traditional to the region where you are. I've had very good amatriciana at restaurants here in Le Marche (and I make a mean amatriciana myself), but the amatriciana in an average restaurant in Rome can stand with the best I've ever had here. The same goes for things like ravioli and tortellini. You'll find them everywhere, but in a good restaurant in Emilia Romagna, they'll stand out.
I agree with some others who have pointed out that your proposed itinerary is too heavily laden with tourist meccas, where you'll have a hard time separating the authentic wheat from the touristy chaff. I'm sure that there are excellent restaurants in Venice, but even we have trouble getting a good meal at a decent price there, and I'm sure it's more difficult for someone who doesn't speak Italian. I also second Sandralist about the cuisine of Liguria: the Cinque Terre is not the best place to enjoy it. Any place where the majority of your diners are day trippers who wouldn't be returning even if you put on a stellar performance, and where hardly any of them know anything about the foods of the area, is not going to go overboard for authenticity.
By the way, a satirical Italian TV program, Striscia la Notizie, once did a little experiment in Venice. They sent three couples to eat in the same five or so restaurants: a local Venetian couple, a couple from Lazio (with the typical Roman accent), and a couple of Chinese origin. They all ordered the same things, and took the receipts to the team to analyze. The Venetians always got the best prices. The Chinese "tourists" usually, but not always, got the highest prices. In some cases the Romans were ripped off worse than the "foreigners".
<i>Or another example: In Rome and Naples, nobody would eat pizza for dinner. Pizza is bought at a street stand and eaten like a sandwich. </i>
This is definitely not true. There are places where pizza is sold by the slice, and not only on the streets, but pizza is also eaten in a pizzeria, and traditionally <b> only </b> for the evening meal. The fact that many sit-down pizzerie in Rome (I don't know about Naples) sell pizza at lunch time is an innovation, probably for the tourists, and you often see signs that say "pizza tutto il giorno" or "pizza a pranzo", because it's unusual. If someone eats pizza for lunch, it would usually be bought by the slice and eaten on the go, by people who have a short lunch break and can't go home for lunch. Lunch is traditionally the main meal of the day, and the reason pizza is eaten in the evening is that it's considered a light meal.
I also wouldn't describe Tuscan cuisine as having much of a "Mediterranean" influence; olive oil is used more than butter, but that's true of central Italy as a whole. It's really a hearty, rather heavy, cuisine, heavy on meat (pork as well as beef), poultry, and beans, along with game and cured meats. Tuscany is famous for the bistecca alla fiorentina, but that certainly is not what defines the cuisine. Many Tuscans have never even had it.
I consider the cuisine of Le Marche to be among the best in Italy. (I must admit to perhaps a little bias, because that's where I live.) It has many influences of Emilia Romagna, its neighbor to the north, and also some similarities to the cuisine of Tuscany and Umbria, on its western borders. It also has centers of excellence for the prized white truffles, which are only in season from October through December, and which are at their best when very fresh. Some of the marchigiano specialties are exquisite. I would include the brodetto, a fish stew found on the seacoast, and the vincisgrassi, which is a heavenly version of lasagne, with the pasta (as my housekeeper says) rolled so thin you can read a newspaper through it.
I can't get any real sense of what a foodie is. In the old days a gourmet was someone who really knew a lot about food and how it was prepared, but it seems as though most foodies don't want to take the trouble. They follow lists or blogs that tell them where they should go to try certain things. I'm not saying all people who call themselves foodies fit this category, but I do see a lot of them asking about certain foods and certain restaurants that I can only call faddish.
For someone who really wants to learn about and experience Italian food, I would advise studying the differences between the different regions and what their specialties are. You usually make out best by ordering dishes that are traditional to the region where you are. I've had very good amatriciana at restaurants here in Le Marche (and I make a mean amatriciana myself), but the amatriciana in an average restaurant in Rome can stand with the best I've ever had here. The same goes for things like ravioli and tortellini. You'll find them everywhere, but in a good restaurant in Emilia Romagna, they'll stand out.
I agree with some others who have pointed out that your proposed itinerary is too heavily laden with tourist meccas, where you'll have a hard time separating the authentic wheat from the touristy chaff. I'm sure that there are excellent restaurants in Venice, but even we have trouble getting a good meal at a decent price there, and I'm sure it's more difficult for someone who doesn't speak Italian. I also second Sandralist about the cuisine of Liguria: the Cinque Terre is not the best place to enjoy it. Any place where the majority of your diners are day trippers who wouldn't be returning even if you put on a stellar performance, and where hardly any of them know anything about the foods of the area, is not going to go overboard for authenticity.
By the way, a satirical Italian TV program, Striscia la Notizie, once did a little experiment in Venice. They sent three couples to eat in the same five or so restaurants: a local Venetian couple, a couple from Lazio (with the typical Roman accent), and a couple of Chinese origin. They all ordered the same things, and took the receipts to the team to analyze. The Venetians always got the best prices. The Chinese "tourists" usually, but not always, got the highest prices. In some cases the Romans were ripped off worse than the "foreigners".
Mar 3rd, 2016, 12:36 AM
#25
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Most restaurants have identical menus with prices in Italian and in English. So, I cannot see how they would manage a rip-off. I understand that locals may get a drink or so for free, but as a tourist you pay the price that is on the menu.
There are a few items without prices on the menus, like "fish of the day" or "lobster by pound". It might be risky ordering such things without negotiating the price in advance.
There are a few items without prices on the menus, like "fish of the day" or "lobster by pound". It might be risky ordering such things without negotiating the price in advance.
Mar 3rd, 2016, 07:19 AM
#26
We were ripped off with a salad once in Venice, traveller - our own fault for not asking the price as you say.
a few days later we thought we'd made the same mistake - but that time the charges were completely reasonable.
goes to show you can never tell.
a few days later we thought we'd made the same mistake - but that time the charges were completely reasonable.
goes to show you can never tell.
Mar 3rd, 2016, 07:34 AM
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>> We were ripped off with a salad once in Venice <<
This anecdote serves as a confirmation of my long-standing conviction that it is dangerous to eat salad. Too many vitamins! We were born as humans, not as goats.
BTW, I have the same opinion about water.
This anecdote serves as a confirmation of my long-standing conviction that it is dangerous to eat salad. Too many vitamins! We were born as humans, not as goats.
BTW, I have the same opinion about water.
Mar 3rd, 2016, 09:26 AM
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I can't speak to Italy, but in general IME in Europe there can be a definite advantage to being a local at a café. We pay 1.20 euro for a café or noisette at the three cafés we frequent here. Tourists/non-locals pay at least 2 euros.
Probably not true for a nice dinner at a restaurant, though, at least around here.
Probably not true for a nice dinner at a restaurant, though, at least around here.
Mar 3rd, 2016, 12:28 PM
#30
well i'm sure i'm not the only lover of "insalata" here. What had cost ` wapping €9 for few leaves of lettuce and a bit of cucumber in the first place cost only €3 in the second, and there was more of it.
St C- I get a discount at the cafe outside Plymouth court because I'm a regular, but I only get about 10% off, and I think that everyone else there is regular too!
St C- I get a discount at the cafe outside Plymouth court because I'm a regular, but I only get about 10% off, and I think that everyone else there is regular too!
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