Italian red wine lovers: I need your advice!
Jul 26th, 2004, 06:32 AM
#21
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Yo Betty!
As one lady to another, one has to establish a deep and lasting relationship with both one's butcher and one's wine-guy! Go to your favorite store and explain what you want to learn about (they LOOOOVE to expound on their knowledge...). And don't be afraid to suggest that you do not want to spend the most money...
In my personal experience, good wine merchants love to help...on their favorite subject.
As one lady to another, one has to establish a deep and lasting relationship with both one's butcher and one's wine-guy! Go to your favorite store and explain what you want to learn about (they LOOOOVE to expound on their knowledge...). And don't be afraid to suggest that you do not want to spend the most money...
In my personal experience, good wine merchants love to help...on their favorite subject.
Jul 26th, 2004, 06:58 AM
#22
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OK, here's where I embarrass myself once again, but may I ask a sidebar question?
Can we talk wine glasses for a minute? As you travel around Italy, in what kinds of glasses is your wine served? I remember little short versions of a water glass, and in one place it was a little pottery vessel of some sort. (I'm speaking about the container you drink from, not the carafe.) Here at home, my favorite European restaurant used to serve chianti in something that looked like a little juice glass. Of course, some places in my travels do use the sort of wine glass I generally find in the states. Any comments? Maybe chianti is served differently from other reds? (Be nice, especially if I'm being really stupid.) Thanks all, J.
Can we talk wine glasses for a minute? As you travel around Italy, in what kinds of glasses is your wine served? I remember little short versions of a water glass, and in one place it was a little pottery vessel of some sort. (I'm speaking about the container you drink from, not the carafe.) Here at home, my favorite European restaurant used to serve chianti in something that looked like a little juice glass. Of course, some places in my travels do use the sort of wine glass I generally find in the states. Any comments? Maybe chianti is served differently from other reds? (Be nice, especially if I'm being really stupid.) Thanks all, J.
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:19 AM
#23
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In Italy, in my experience, it is not the type of wine that determines whether it is drunk from a small tumbler but the general level of the restaurant and the wine. A house wine in an inexpensive trattoria is more likely than not to come with a small tumbler. In an expensive restaurant and with a bottled wine of high quality, you are likely to get a crystal glass of the appropriate size and shape. In pretentious restaurants with wines priced accordingly, you might be given a huge balloon of a wine glass -- to let you better swirl, sniff and do all the other oenologically correct things.
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:08 AM
#24
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Hi jmw44
My experience has been the same as eloise's.
Brings to mind a story told by Bertrand Russell.
When he was 5 or 6, his parents went out for the evening. Prime Minister Gladstone showed up that evening,(Someone had gotten the date of his visit wrong.) and Bertie had to entertain him.
After dinner, over cigars and Port in the library, the PM looks at the little boy and says, "This is an excellent Port they have given me, but why have they given it to me in a Claret glass?".
My experience has been the same as eloise's.
Brings to mind a story told by Bertrand Russell.
When he was 5 or 6, his parents went out for the evening. Prime Minister Gladstone showed up that evening,(Someone had gotten the date of his visit wrong.) and Bertie had to entertain him.
After dinner, over cigars and Port in the library, the PM looks at the little boy and says, "This is an excellent Port they have given me, but why have they given it to me in a Claret glass?".
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:29 AM
#25
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In NYC there's only one place to go to get the best info on Italian wines and that's Italian Wine Merchants right off Union Square. They only do Italian wines and are owned by Mario Batali and Joe Bastianich. Bastianich and David Lynch co-wrote Vino Italiano, the bible of Italian wine.
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:24 PM
#26
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SuzieC at 10:32 gives the best advice. Work with your local wine merchant so she can develop a profile of and for you. Then when you go into the shop she can advise you of something new, what's on sale, etc. (Notice the use of she. My wife will be so proud.)
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:00 PM
#27
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Ah, but selling skills can be more personality derived than based on knowledge and experience. Thanks for the tip buongiorno. I will visit the Italian Wine Merchants when I next visit. It is a pity there are no BYO restaurants in NYC.
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:24 PM
#29
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bettyo70, if you work in the Financial District, the New York Wine Exchange on Beaver Street has a excellent selection of wines and a friendly, most helpful owner. Very non threatening to a novice. He also has tastings and a web site with the same name.
Jul 26th, 2004, 06:09 PM
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Steve,
Did you get my e-mail re: Milano?
My new daughter-in-law is a professional chef and they know IT very well. Actually, they were married 11 July @ Hambleton Hall in the UK and "honeymooned" @ La Sirenuse in Positano.
M
Did you get my e-mail re: Milano?
My new daughter-in-law is a professional chef and they know IT very well. Actually, they were married 11 July @ Hambleton Hall in the UK and "honeymooned" @ La Sirenuse in Positano.
M
Jul 26th, 2004, 07:20 PM
#32
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PaulR
I think we need to keep quiet about the wonderful Valpolicella - much more than the "drink a cella" ad campaign of years ago. Many are still affordable.
That said, I really like Zenato - their DOC VPs are still under $10 and their much better Ripassa is still under $20. here in DFW - the '97 Ripassa was stunning (I have never tasted a '97 IT red which was not great in its price range), but the '01 and slightly lesser '99 are not far behind. Zenato makes a highly regarded Amarone as well - those remind me of LH Zinfandel which I have never liked.
Allegrini makes some great affordable stuff also, but his La Grola and L Poja (equal to the Ripassa) are a bit more "cerebral" and less flamboyant - still great for the USD!!!
M
I think we need to keep quiet about the wonderful Valpolicella - much more than the "drink a cella" ad campaign of years ago. Many are still affordable.
That said, I really like Zenato - their DOC VPs are still under $10 and their much better Ripassa is still under $20. here in DFW - the '97 Ripassa was stunning (I have never tasted a '97 IT red which was not great in its price range), but the '01 and slightly lesser '99 are not far behind. Zenato makes a highly regarded Amarone as well - those remind me of LH Zinfandel which I have never liked.
Allegrini makes some great affordable stuff also, but his La Grola and L Poja (equal to the Ripassa) are a bit more "cerebral" and less flamboyant - still great for the USD!!!
M
Jul 26th, 2004, 10:52 PM
#33
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If I may please butt in with an out of Region request.My biggest challenge will be to find a good wine while traveling along the Ligurian coast in September. Apart from a desert wine made around the hills of Cinque Terre there do not seem to be any premium outcomes. If anyone knows of a good Ligurian wine, please let me know ??
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:17 PM
#35
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Thanks Sheila. I've been through my Italian wine directory and checked Wine Specator and Decanter databases. This one is a question for real local knowledge. Steve from Sydney, and not Rick's brother.
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:18 PM
#36
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I do not know much about wines from Liguria. There seem to be 30+ wineries in the region, none producing top notch wines. Some decent rated wineries include: Tenuta Giucheo, Giobatta Mandino Cane, and Casina Delle Terre Rosse.
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:04 AM
#37
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Steve, on the Ligurian coast, look for Gavi di Gavi, a white made with the cortese grape. Excellent with grilled fish. And the following white was recommended by the locals but we did not find any: Vino Pigato di Salea (produced by Calleri).
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:09 AM
#38
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SydneySteve: Actually there are a few BYOB restaurants in NYC. You can either consult the NYC Zagat's book and search BYOB under the "Special Features" section or do a search on www.citysearch.com for New York, plugging in "BYOB restaurants."
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:42 AM
#39
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Thanks Betty . I have never been to a BYO in NYC. I will consult wth the concierge's copy of Zagat at the Algonquin when we are there soon.
JQ, I understand Gavi's are made just over the Ligurian border into Piedmont a bit away from the coastal influence -sounds like they are light and a bit fruity and as you say suitable with fish. I found a great book on my shelf tonight that I totally forgot about - was a 50th present a couple of years back - name is The New Italy - a Complete Guide to Italian Wine by Cernilli and Sabellico. The region of Liguria of course has the smallest entry. Thanks again.
JQ, I understand Gavi's are made just over the Ligurian border into Piedmont a bit away from the coastal influence -sounds like they are light and a bit fruity and as you say suitable with fish. I found a great book on my shelf tonight that I totally forgot about - was a 50th present a couple of years back - name is The New Italy - a Complete Guide to Italian Wine by Cernilli and Sabellico. The region of Liguria of course has the smallest entry. Thanks again.
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:58 AM
#40
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Hi Steve, etal,
I will quote from Alexis Lichine's old book.
"...the wise visitor will generally drink wines from somewhere else. Liguria makes 400,000 hectoliters (10.6 million US gallons) annually, but most of it is quite ordinary wine."
Things have probably improved, but I plead personal ignorance.
M
I will quote from Alexis Lichine's old book.
"...the wise visitor will generally drink wines from somewhere else. Liguria makes 400,000 hectoliters (10.6 million US gallons) annually, but most of it is quite ordinary wine."
Things have probably improved, but I plead personal ignorance.
M
