quest2travel

I’m in the beginning stages of planning a trip to Europe for late July to mid-August (27 days or so). The original plan was to travel with 3 youngsters plus maybe their mother.

Since there are 4-5 of us, I’m assuming it will be more practical/cheaper to travel by car outside the cities rather than taking a train. We plan to go to Barcelona, fly to Madrid (explore surroundings - Segovia & Toledo) then on to Andalusia before going back to Madrid to join World Youth festivities (Aug 15-21). It is on the Andalusia portion I plan to use the car.

And since we will be taking a car, I’m now thinking of bringing along my brother who’s wheelchair bound. He’s been to Europe before albeit on a regular package tour. Then, I didn’t have the usual concerns re transportation and accommodations (not to mention luggage).

This is where it starts to get overwhelming for me. I have lots of questions but don’t know how to start. How do I even begin to organize this?

Transportation: I’ve read a few articles on renting a car and they referenced things like insurance, rules of the road, parking difficulties, etc etc (whatever else I need to find out but missed). Then too, who to rent from and how much is the going rate now? Those may or may not be deal breakers.

Then, together with my brother and his companion, there will be 7 of us. I’m not sure about finding a car/van that can accommodate that many (with as much luggage). That and the fact of maneuvering such a big car in the smaller roads of Spain’s towns.

Then, there’s also the question of whether attractions are accessible for people on wheelchairs. Please, don’t ask me which specific sites we’ll see. I have a general idea of cities/towns to go to but still get confused on what to see in those places (ex. on which town is the Alhambra?). I just know they’ve been mentioned to be nice places to go to by people here.

If you’re still here reading this, thank you very much. I think I’ve written a novel !!

All opinions, tips and advises welcome. My thanks to all.

Oh, one of my considerations are the accommodations. Will I be able to rent apartments in Seville, Cordoba, Granada, Ronda, white villages, etc …

This is all very convoluted. I thought to ask about transportation first to get it out of the way, then maybe later I can go into sights-to-see and accommodations. But attractions and accommodations are things I need to consider too on whether I should bring my brother with me or not. Thanks once again.

Robert2533

You might be better served working with someone who knows what's going on, a trip planner familiar with traveling in Spain.

adrienne

How old are the children? If they are young I think you have enough to handle without adding your brother and his companion.

Can you clarify your statement "maybe their mother." Are these your children? Are you separated/divorced from their mother? If you take these children out of their home country without both of their parents then you should have a notarized letter stating that you have the consent of the parent(s) who are not accompanying them and that you can authorized medical treatment in the absence of their parent(s).

The rate on rental cars varies depending on country, location of pickup/drop off, size of vehicle, number of drivers, and day of the week that you check the rate. I usually use AutoEurope or Kemwell (same company, really). You prepay your car rental and they email you a voucher. Then keep checking rates. These consolidators will match the lowest price you get and if they offer a lower price in the future then you will receive a credit off your original rate.

adrienne

I just read your other post. These "youngsters" you're taking are adults! I thought you were taking 5 and 6 year olds. Why aren't they working on this trip as well since the trip is mostly for them?

Take your brother along and give everyone an assignment to be responsible for something on this trip. Get yourself organized and be the organizer/delegator.

quest2travel

Hi Adrienne. Sorry, forgot to elaborate. Their mother is my younger sister. Her kids are 19, 18 and 16. We've been to Europe (last year) and (red-faced) yes, on a package tour. We had 3 days each on our own in London and Paris. We stayed in apartments in the 2 cities. And yes, we enjoyed that even better than the tour itself.

By the way, my brother, his companion and I went the year before. But we stuck with the tour throughout except for an extra 3 days in London (we stayed in a hotel recommended by tour company).

Their mother is not sure about going because of work. Authorization is no problem.

After some experience under our collective belt, we thought we'd dare to do it on our own this time around, having enjoyed the independent travel (scratch that, independent time), that we did last year.

And thank you for giving me some car rental companies to look at. I'll research it a bit later. All info you've given me besides the names of the companies are a great help too. Thanks.

And Robert, I agree. A personal planner would go a long way to making it easy for myself. But I'm guessing it's going to cost me a bundle. I have no idea about ballpark figures for one of those. Can you give me an idea? Thank you.

adrienne

You should read some guidebooks for background information. Not the stuff about the sights but the information in the beginning of the books that tells about how to do things and how to plan your trip. Get a few from the library and scan through them.

Do you know about web sites such as mappy.com and viamichelin.com that give driving routes, tolls, and gas consumption? They're really valuable sites for trip planning.

Have you seen Maribel's web site for Spain? She's a poster on this board and has a comprehensive web site for planning trips to Spain.

http://maribelsguides.com/

kleeblatt

If you're brother is coming with you, you should rent a vehicle with a handicap sticker. That way you'll be able to use handicap parking, etc.

Echnaton

We have been to Spain with our son who was bound to a wheelchair then (just a broken leg), so we got some experience.

Firstly - and this is independent from the wheelchair - DO NOT GO to Andalusia in July/August - it will be unbearably hot. This forum is full of records of people who suffered from the summer heat in Andalusia. I especially remember one thread about people from Andalusia who traveled to Southern California in August and enjoyed the cool climate there. The heat is worse in Andalusia because most places are not air-conditioned.

Secondly, the car. Most rental car agencies offer 9-seater vans which will accomodate 7 people, lots of luggage and a wheelchair easily. I have driven such vans in Spain and on the Amalfi Coast a zillion times, and manoevering won't be a problem. These vans can park on normal parking lots and curbside. The only restriction is that some parking garages are not tall enough. These vans are just under 2.0m high, so look on the max. headroom sign at the garage entrance (1.9m would not be enough, 2.0m would work - but be careful and check). Here are pictures of a typical 9-seater bus:
http://www.opel.de/shop/cars/vivaro/...tent.act?pic=8
(click on the pictures on the right side of screen)

Insurances are not a problem. You can book all car insurances with your reservation. www.holidayautos.com usually has all insurances included.

Thirdly, wheelchair accessibility. In my experience, most attractions (museums, churches, palaces) are wheelchair accessible. E.g. the Royal Palace in Madrid even rents wheelchairs to visitiors (free of charge) and I vividly remember that we used a special historic elevator for our wheelchair-bound son.

It will be more diffult to navigate through towns. Madrid and Barcelona are fairly flat, but if you are in a hilly town (e.g. Toledo), it will be quite a task to push the wheelchair uphill (especially in the heat of summer). Also, be prepared for cobbled streets and curbs. You will make it with a wheelchair, but do not expect perfect accessibility within the old towns.

VERY IMPORTANT: You should take with you a sticker or card that shows that your brother is handicapped. Then place this sticker or card under the windscreen of your rental car - then you can used the handicapped parking places. If you do not have a proof of handicap under the windscreen, your rental car might be towed away!

Fourthly, general transportation. Train travel with a wheelchair is a challenge (boarding and unboarding the train is the problem), so I strongly suggest you rely on a rental car. Even for transportation within cities, the car will help you with your wheelchair. The large Spanish cities have wide roads and boulevards, only the historic old towns have narrow streets (and they are usually pedestrian anyway). In Madrid and Barcelona it is quite easy to drive a van.

Fifthly, itinerary. July/August is the hottest time of the year. My serious advice: skip Andalusia. Instead, add northern Spain. Cantabria (around Santander) and the Basque Country (around Bilbao and Donostia) will be beautiful in mid-summer and you might take a short detour into Southwestern France (Cote d'Argent, Biarritz, Bordeaux). Barcelona and the Costa Brava (Cadaques is a gem!) will be hot, but not unbearably, since you are at the sea. From the Costa Brava, it is a short drive across the border into France, where you can see the picturesque town of Ceret and drive up into the Pyrenees (Mont Canigou). At the sea, there is a picturesque village called Collioure.

Between the Basque Country and the Costa Brava, you might stop at La Rioja, the wine region. The Marques de Riscal winery is spectacular in every respect (history, architecture) and should not be missed even if not everybody of your family do want to taste the wines (reservation required).

Madrid will pretty hot, too, but you will spend much time within the cool walls of museums and the Royal Palace. A car will be handy to drive through the surroundings. El Escorial is the main attraction, also Avila, Segovia, Toledo. The landscape around Madrid is nice, too, and there are mountain chains where you can enjoy some cool air.

ribeirasacra

I agree with the above posting about that some folks find the weather too hot during August in the south, but Madrid could be the same!
You should be able to hire a suitable minibus (van)
However you may not find one with automatic gearbox.
You may also find that access can be difficult for wheel chair users at times. Simple things like ramps at kerbs can be no existent. Do not let that put you off just expect the odd problem and ensure you have good access at any accommodation you stay in.
Here are some basic rules for the road.
http://www.idealspain.com/Pages/Info...ivingSpain.htm


The kids you talk about can vote or near to the age to vote. They are adults now.

Echnaton

Oh, I have overlooked that the kids are adults. One reason more to visit La Rioja.
http://www.marquesderiscal.com/

Echnaton

Another thought:

When you go in summer, adopt the Spanish rhythm. This means, you make your excursions in the coolness of the morning, you take your siesta during the hot afternoon, you have dinner after 9:00 p.m. and you enjoy the balmy nights until the wee hours (like the Spanish do). Americans might find this rhythm odd, but there are two reasons for this rhythm:

Firstly, sunrise and sunset are very late in Spain, because Spain belongs to the central European time zone although it is much more west than this time zone. Thus, 9 p.m. would be almost the same as 7 p.m. in the USA.

Secondly, the rhythm allows you to cope with the heat. Interestingly, the people in Northern Spain (where it never gets hot) are somewhat annoyed by the rest of Spain's daily rhythm (especially the siesta), but when you are in Madrid in mid-summer you clearly see the advantages of a nocturnal life. For Americans, the Spanish rhythm has the added advantage that the time-lag will be less.

Viajero2

If you are heading to Spain in the Summer with 4 youngsters and adults, I STRONGLY recommend your brother stay behind this time. Definitely the conditions are nowhere near conducive for him, you, and others to travel and not get on each other's way; this is keeping it real.

In regards to the advice to "adopt to the Spanish rhythm": easier said than done; if you had a month, maybe....

I travel with a spouse on a wheelchair and we have been to Spain many times. He is an amazing driver and enjoys that portion of the trip tremendously. We have traveled with companions who are excellent travelers, including understanding that their packing has to be kept to a minimum because we have to make space for a wheelchair. I would never even consider bringing him along with a whole crowd of youngsters in the midst of the scorching Andalucian Summer. A bit nutty if you ask me....:-?

Alec

Travelling with a wheelchair-bound person in the summer heat in the historic cities of Andalucia will be a real challenge. I took a disabled person there last year, but it was in October with temperatures in the 70s and 80s - it will be 100 or over in August. Also generally speaking, old Andalucian towns and cities are not wheelchair-friendly. Yes, there are ramps (sometimes) and there are disabled parking places (sometimes, if not already taken up by selfish able-bodied drivers), but generally expect cobblestones, narrow footpaths not wide enough and to carry wheelchair plus occupant up and down stairs. Generally level sights like cathedrals and churches present little problems - both Córdoba and Seville cathedrals were superb, with disabled lavatories etc. But Alhambra was a nightmare. Only very small part can be visited with a wheelchair, and sometimes we had to rely on the kindness of strangers - fellow tourists - to haul the chair up and down long, steep stairs etc. This really exhausted us - and the disabled companion, and while we enjoyed the visit - it's a magical place - we'd think twice before revisiting.
Driving a minivan (people carrier) presents few problems, except that you don't want to drive into the old centres of hill towns, while some roads aren't wide enough even with mirros folded, let alone turning or reversing. Spaniards themselves are kind and helpful, so that's a plus. You don't see many wheelchair users in city centres - for good reasons.

quest2travel

I appreciate everyone’s input and will surely go over each one’s observations when I have more time.

Although we (my brother, his companion and I) come from the tropics where it’s very humid, I admit it will still be a hardship for him to ‘rush’ around trying to keep up with the younger ones in the group, especially when it gets really hot. I just know he will feel that he might be an inconvenience or dragging the group (though I also know the nephew and nieces won’t think that at all).

Will be busy in the next 24 hrs but I will surely think this over. Any other input is welcome.

Very much appreciated to the nth degree everyone!!

PS. In the back of my mind, I’m hoping we can still do it although a little more leisurely and sticking mainly to cities, keeping in mind Echnaton’s points especially. I have to get Andalusia out of my head if I’m thinking to bring my brother along though. Sigh..

quest2travel

Oh my, I just read Alec's reply. (Thanks for your input Alec).

My brother's vacation to Spain is getting more daunting. I'll have to wrap my head around what everyone is saying.

And maybe that's why I chose to go on a package tour with him in the first trip (years ago... My mistake, it wasn't in 2008 as I previously alluded to).

Thanks again everyone.

jkbritt

Can your brother walk a bit. This is very important. If he can, then travel becomes much easier. Is the wheelchair electric or manual? Could you purchase an electric scooter for him to use? I am disabled (I was told handicapped was a cuss word in Europe on the Tripadvisor site) and I can walk a bit but not far or long. I use a 65 pound electric scooter. It is smaller than a wheelchair and more maneuverable. It folds down and fits in the back of a Toyota Corolla. The battery lasts about 4-6 hours, 6-8 miles per charge. The less you weigh, the farther it will go per charge. I weigh 180. If I weighted 230, the above criteria would be halved. I usually try to recharge it while eating so I can get longer service per day. Occasionally, when going up long and steep hills, my wife has to lean on it to help a bit, but no real pushing. I have also used a 12v. inverter to charge the battery when driving long distances.

You are correct. With 5-7 people, driving becomes cheaper than train or bus.

When booking apt. or hotels ask about what floor are the rooms (remember they have ground floor then first, second, etc.)and really important - what is the size of the elevator. Ask for dimensions. When we were in Nice last year, the apt. had a lift, BUT it was so small that I had to set the scooter on its back to get it in. A wheelchair would not have fitted. Wife had to wait on lift to come back or walk 5 flights of stairs to room.

Mainhattengirl

This website might help you. Though it is about Madrid, it is written by a guy who has been in a wheelchair his whole life, but travels all around the world. He then writes travel advice about how to do this.

http://www.wheeladventure.com/WA_Des...idDn/index.htm

jubilada

If you book hotels that say they are handicap accessible be sure to ask if there are steps at the entrance. (I have encountered situations in which accessability is promised but there are one or two steps at the entrance to the hotel)

NicoleTravelhands

If you still need some help: http://www.disabledaccessibletravel.com/