hopstiguy

Hi all, our family likes to do and see a lot, we are hoping to do a 20-day June trip that includes a number of Central Europe cities and countries. The 'first draft' is a circular route, cities are listed below. As it's a circle, we can start and end at whatever city has the least expensive flights (flying from Montreal).

Prague (4 days)- probably will start here, and we'll rent a car as we leave
Cesky Krumlov- 2
Salzburg- 2
Lake Bled & Ljubljana- 2
Zagreb- 1
Budapest- 4
Bratislava- 1-2
Vienna- 3
Prague

Some of those are added because they're 'on the way', I would say the 'must dos' for us are Prague, Cesky Krumlov, Ljubljana, & Budapest. Having never been in this part of Europe (though we've traveled extensively elsewhere in Europe), I would appreciate any feedback or advice, especially related to renting a car and driving in these areas, whether the timeline is at all reasonable, and what might be lopped if we decide to rein it in.

Thanks in advance, Robert in Montreal

Michael

If you like mountain driving, 95 in Austria might be a better albeit slower option than A10 from Salzburg to the Slovenian border.

MmePerdu

There seems to be no time allotted for getting from one location to another. So in some instances the locations with 1 day may in fact have close to none and the 2 day locations more like 1. And what will you do with the car in the cities?

Consider a reduced itinerary, despite the desire "to do and see a lot" and for efficiency's sake choose locations that can be done by train as it's usually faster than driving and you'll save additional time not having to mess around with all the car stuff.

PalenQ

C Krumlov would be a drive by for me and add a day in Salzburg to drive via the fabled Lake District (a k a Sound of Music Country) to idyllic Hallstatt high in the Alps then southeast to Slovenia.

Andrew

Plitvice Lakes National Park near Zagreb is outstanding - about two hours by car from Zagreb. Try to see it if you can fit it in.

Can you do an open jaw flight into Prague out of say Zagreb or Budapest? And then limit your driving - you really don't need a car in a lot of these places. Renting a car in one country and dropping in another is usually expensive, so you could drive from Prague to say Brno via Cesky Krumlov, train to Vienna, Train to Salzburg, train to Ljubljana, rent a car there for a few days, train to Zagreb, train to Budapest.

PalenQ

Yes trains and cars...think about it, great suggestion from Andrew.

But <Renting a car in one country and dropping in another is usually expensive>

Not your case since you are renting and returning in Prague.

But trains and cars would make returning to Prague unnecessary - saving lots of time that may be spent elsewhere - for lots on trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Or check drop-off charges and see if doing by car one-way would not be too prohibitive.

Andrew

PalenQ: <i>But <Renting a car in one country and dropping in another is usually expensive>

Not your case since you are renting and returning in Prague.</i>

The point of my saying that was to suggest an open jaw flight, which means not driving back to Prague.

kja

It’s definitely ambitious! Like MmePerdu, I’m a bit concerned that you are going to spend a disproportionate time driving, with little time to actually see even a few highlights of the places you include on your final itinerary.

I would encourage you to plot out your trip on a calendar. Use viamichelin.com to get reasonable estimates of driving times and be sure to add in stops for fuel, breaks (including bathroom breaks), etc. Each time you propose to change locations, pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting lost/oriented, etc.)

From what you say, I would think you might want to considering dropping Zagreb and adding that time to Ljubljana / Lake Bled.

Make sure you have the vignette you will need to drive a car in Slovenia. Make sure your car rental agency knows that you are going to take the car into each of these countries and that they are OK with that plan.

Good luck!

hopstiguy

Thanks all for the suggestions- keep 'em coming! We've looked into the train everywhere we've traveled- as a family of 4, the cost of a rental car is about 1/3 the cost of trains, even considering train passes, gasoline & parking. I definitely don't want to be driving in the cities, so I'll try to find places that woule be easy in/out- suggestions welcome!

Most of the drives between cities are under 3 hours, so I figured we could drive, and have plenty of time to spend part of the driving day in the next city.

Yes, kja, Zagreb was definitely one of those places that's mainly being used to reduce a long day in the car between Ljubljana and Budapest. Maybe that day we could stop at Plitvice Lakes National Park (Thanks Andrew!), and skip Zagreb altogether.

Robert in Montreal

kja

If you decide to stop in the Plitvice Lakes National Park -- and I agree that it is worthwhile! -- then I really think you will likely want more time in that area than you are giving it. The Plitvice Lakes National Park is, IMO, the single most un-missable of Croatia's many splendors. Not only are the lakes connected by travertine waterfall formations, each lake has unique microbiota, and as a result, the lakes are different colors. The best way to see that is to make a single, long loop through the park -- something on the order of 6 hours or more (including time for the boat that connects the lower and upper lakes), and by all means, start at the lowest part of the park so you are facing the falls as you proceed. You would really need to plan on a full day there, with at least one night.

And to be clear -- I really liked Zagreb! I was just pointing out that your time in Slovenia seems short, given your interests, and that skipping Zagreb would allow you a bit more time there.

thursdaysd

Have you checked the train prices for this trip? Aside from Austria they should be quite cheap.

MmePerdu

You may certainly have considered these 2 things. When your itinerary takes you to a city, check on accommodations on the outskirts or in a suburb with good public transport options into town and parking on the premises. It may seem obvious but the closer in to the center of any given city you stay, rooms and parking will become more expensive until parking opportunities are in expensive garages.

Also, consider doing some of your sightseeing in the morning on days you plan to move on. If the drive is 3 hours plus some time for finding & checking in to your accommodations, if you set out at noon you'll arrive at a good time to check in and won't face the dilemma of having the car with your belongings in it, wanting to see something of your new location and afraid to leave the car.

Andrew

And in comparing driving vs. train prices, I would compare it as a one-way train trip vs. a round-trip driving trip (driving all the way back to Prague means traveling a longer distance). I would probably skip the train passes, unless you can buy some sort of a family pass or something.

Mimar

Driving in Austria also requires a vignette.

Also an International Driver's Permit, a translation of your driver's license, along with your license, is needed for driving
in the Czech Republic, Austria, Slovakia, Slovenia and Croatia. The IDP is easily and cheaply available at your local CAA office.

fourfortravel

A few points for consideration from one who lives in Vienna and spends a good amount of time visiting the neighbors.

I, too, think the itinerary is ambitious; the logistics:enjoyment ratio is too high.

"Most of the drives between cities are under 3 hours." Yes, on paper. Case in point: just this weekend we were returning from Salzburg. Our 2:57 minute "on paper" drive required 3:45 because of traffic and a brief downpour that slowed said traffic.

Having been to these destinations (but not knowing your interests) I might construct a different itinerary:

Prague (5 days), with 1 reserved for a day trip to CK
Train to Salzburg, collect the rental car.
Salzburg and the Salzkammergut - 4, adding Großglockner or Hallstatt as a day trip.
Lake Bled & Ljubljana- 2
Budapest- 5, because driving Ljubljana to Budapest is effectively a day of your holiday
Vienna- 4, with Bratislava and Melk as a day trips. Drop the car.
Train to Prague -1

This is only 19 days, but once you have identified what you want to see and do in each destination it might be easier to suggest a time for each.

Zagreb is pleasant enough, though for us it is one of those cities I do not feel compelled to revisit. It is like a miniature Vienna to me, just with friendlier people. We can't find the love for Lake Bled (and would visit Piran and the Slovenian riviera over the lake any day), but can certainly understand its draw, especially on your proposed itinerary.

I hope you find this helpful.

PalenQ

Andrew - yes sorry misunderstood -

I would probably skip the train passes, unless you can buy some sort of a family pass or something.>

However the newly formulated Eurail Select Railpass for those countries can be really cheap - 1st class and in those countries many say first class is worth it.

KarenWoo

Hopstiguy,
If you can, I recommend spending 1 or 2 nights in Cesky Krumlov. We did just that and did not regret it. During the day, CK will be crowded with day trippers. At night when they leave, CK will be quiet and it is also beautiful lit up at night. One of my fondest memories is having a drink in the evening with the castle nearby and lit up. It was gorgeous!

We needed 2 nights because we stopped at another stunning castle (hulboka) or something like that on the way from Prague to CK, so we arrived in CK in the evening. We spent the next day sightseeing: had a guided tour of the castle, and a boat ride on the river. Had time for walking around and leisurely meals.