Is it just me or ...
Nov 23rd, 2010, 04:59 PM
#45
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Most of us don't have the time , money and, often, interest in spending our holidays exploring "a zillion hidden gems" (as seen by the locals).
" If we natives recommend other hotels, we are even insulted by tourists who know better. "
Except for the location, I have now idea what hotel is the best in my home town. I stay in my home. Tourists stay in hotels. They know better.
" If we natives recommend other hotels, we are even insulted by tourists who know better. "
Except for the location, I have now idea what hotel is the best in my home town. I stay in my home. Tourists stay in hotels. They know better.
Nov 23rd, 2010, 05:43 PM
#46
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We all know that maxim, right? Gems are, therefore, only gems is the place speaks to you.
Unfortunately, a great many people are arrogant enough to think that their subjective impressions constitute "truth" (the opinion as fact delusion). These people usually also like to trumpet (in a condescending manner they would describe as "educating") their love, or discovery, of a "hidden" place that others don't know about (hardly anyone spoke English!!") as worthy of praise (the "I understand something you don't and that makes me special" delusion).
Unfortunately, a great many people are arrogant enough to think that their subjective impressions constitute "truth" (the opinion as fact delusion). These people usually also like to trumpet (in a condescending manner they would describe as "educating") their love, or discovery, of a "hidden" place that others don't know about (hardly anyone spoke English!!") as worthy of praise (the "I understand something you don't and that makes me special" delusion).
Nov 23rd, 2010, 10:48 PM
#47
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"Again. Why are these places better than Munich? What separates these 'hidden gems' from the found gems?"
They aren't better, and they aren't "hidden gems". They are just different, and and they are less known to Americans. Historically Munich is just one of many German capitals, destroyed like many other German cities, more or less successfully rebuilt like many other cities, and with a distinctive regional culture like in many other cities.
And "hidden gems"? These "hidden gems" include a few of the largest preserved medieval centers of once powerful towns of the HRE (like Regensburg or Erfurt), several World Heritage Sites (like Quedlinburg or Bad Muskau), Germany's most popular summer destination (Baltic sea), the center of the Protestant Reformation (like Wittenberg, Torgau, Schmalkalden), the heart of the Hanseatic League (Lübeck)... I could go on and on.
They aren't better, and they aren't "hidden gems". They are just different, and and they are less known to Americans. Historically Munich is just one of many German capitals, destroyed like many other German cities, more or less successfully rebuilt like many other cities, and with a distinctive regional culture like in many other cities.
And "hidden gems"? These "hidden gems" include a few of the largest preserved medieval centers of once powerful towns of the HRE (like Regensburg or Erfurt), several World Heritage Sites (like Quedlinburg or Bad Muskau), Germany's most popular summer destination (Baltic sea), the center of the Protestant Reformation (like Wittenberg, Torgau, Schmalkalden), the heart of the Hanseatic League (Lübeck)... I could go on and on.
Nov 24th, 2010, 05:11 PM
#48
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It's not about sending the American tourist deliberately to places like Bielefeld, Neumünster, or Ingolstadt - just for the sake of discovering a "hidden gem". Many places are indeed simply boring and have not much not to offer.
And some place are literally too far off the beaten track as that they could be easily included into an itinerary that relied on our two biggest airports, Frankfurt and Munich.
The amusing thing is rather the fact that many places are top tourist destinations, just not for Americans.
Take Hamburg, for example. You may hate or like it, but you cannot deny the fact that it attracts a massive number of foreign tourists, just few or hardly any Americans.
Same for the Harz mountains or the towns along the Fairy Tale Road where you find lots of tourists from the Nordic and Benelux countries. And, compared with the Romantic Road, the road itself is a scenic byway with lots of nice landscapes to discover.
Of course, most of that tourism comes from that fact that both latter regions are easier accessible by car from Denmark or the Netherlands than Bavaria.
Some places and sights in Germany which are household names for American Fodorites have been totally unknown to me - even though I grew up in this country. Where on earth is the "Marksburg"?
Even if you focused on Bavaria, you see places like Augsburg or Regensburg mentioned as "hidden gems" - which they are not. Hidden, I mean. But lots of tourists go to Nuremberg which, unless you have an interest in German history from 1933-45 or overrun Christmas markets or a pretty neat train museum, has little more to offer than a ghastly rebuilt city center, dotted with a few historic buildings.
So there is no "collective wisdom" which made Nuremberg a top destination. It's simply better known due to the trials and the Christmas market.
And some place are literally too far off the beaten track as that they could be easily included into an itinerary that relied on our two biggest airports, Frankfurt and Munich.
The amusing thing is rather the fact that many places are top tourist destinations, just not for Americans.
Take Hamburg, for example. You may hate or like it, but you cannot deny the fact that it attracts a massive number of foreign tourists, just few or hardly any Americans.
Same for the Harz mountains or the towns along the Fairy Tale Road where you find lots of tourists from the Nordic and Benelux countries. And, compared with the Romantic Road, the road itself is a scenic byway with lots of nice landscapes to discover.
Of course, most of that tourism comes from that fact that both latter regions are easier accessible by car from Denmark or the Netherlands than Bavaria.
Some places and sights in Germany which are household names for American Fodorites have been totally unknown to me - even though I grew up in this country. Where on earth is the "Marksburg"?
Even if you focused on Bavaria, you see places like Augsburg or Regensburg mentioned as "hidden gems" - which they are not. Hidden, I mean. But lots of tourists go to Nuremberg which, unless you have an interest in German history from 1933-45 or overrun Christmas markets or a pretty neat train museum, has little more to offer than a ghastly rebuilt city center, dotted with a few historic buildings.
So there is no "collective wisdom" which made Nuremberg a top destination. It's simply better known due to the trials and the Christmas market.
Nov 24th, 2010, 08:57 PM
#49
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<i>Take Hamburg, for example. You may hate or like it, but you cannot deny the fact that it attracts a massive number of foreign tourists, just few or hardly any Americans.
...
Of course, most of that tourism comes from that fact that both latter regions are easier accessible by car from Denmark or the Netherlands than Bavaria.</i>
Doesn't this pretty much prove the point? I know of no one that would consider Hamburg to have anywhere near the appeal of Munich or Bavaria. They are simply not mentioned in the same breath. Indeed, most of the people I know that have been to Hamburg recently (from Copenhagen), went because all the cities that require a flight (Paris, London, etc) for a weekend trip were too expensive to reach. Sure, many Danes visit Hamburg, but that doesn't mean much if it is a fallback or simply a regional attraction.
Consider, for example, Minneapolis. It is a very nice city. It has, perhaps, the best repertory theater in the US, a leading modern art museum, some nice restaurants, and all the trappings of a major city. My parents, who live within a couple of hours, have been known to go for quick weekend getaways. They have a good time.
Yet, when advising foreign tourists coming to the US, I doubt anyone would ever suggest Minneapolis at the expense of New York, or even Chicago. The same is true of Hamburg. It is a nice enough city - prosperous and pleasant. It still isn't worth crossing the ocean for. And I liked Hamburg!
...
Of course, most of that tourism comes from that fact that both latter regions are easier accessible by car from Denmark or the Netherlands than Bavaria.</i>
Doesn't this pretty much prove the point? I know of no one that would consider Hamburg to have anywhere near the appeal of Munich or Bavaria. They are simply not mentioned in the same breath. Indeed, most of the people I know that have been to Hamburg recently (from Copenhagen), went because all the cities that require a flight (Paris, London, etc) for a weekend trip were too expensive to reach. Sure, many Danes visit Hamburg, but that doesn't mean much if it is a fallback or simply a regional attraction.
Consider, for example, Minneapolis. It is a very nice city. It has, perhaps, the best repertory theater in the US, a leading modern art museum, some nice restaurants, and all the trappings of a major city. My parents, who live within a couple of hours, have been known to go for quick weekend getaways. They have a good time.
Yet, when advising foreign tourists coming to the US, I doubt anyone would ever suggest Minneapolis at the expense of New York, or even Chicago. The same is true of Hamburg. It is a nice enough city - prosperous and pleasant. It still isn't worth crossing the ocean for. And I liked Hamburg!
Nov 25th, 2010, 02:59 AM
#50
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Quite interesting to check the statistical data for tourism in Germany. All data excludes daytrips that did not require to spend the night in a hotel or elsewhere.
I've omitted the neighboring countries, because, as TG said, the ease to just drive to certain parts of Germany can blur the picture. So only incoming tourism from countries that require travel by plane has been included.
I'd have guessed that the travel preferences of Americans, Canadians, and Australians should be somewhat similar, which is true for the preference for Bavaria (26-28%). But Berlin is a close #2 for Australians and Canadians, while Americans have Hesse (the Rhine) on the #2 spot and visit Berlin only half as much as Canadians or Australians.
Japanese like Bavaria and Hesse by the same ratio as the Americans, but rarely visit Berlin.
The British share their top 3 preferences quite evenly between Berlin and Bavaria and Northrhine-Westphalia.
While visitors from Spain or Israel have a twice as strong preference for Berlin than for Bavaria.
I wonder if Rick Steve has different editions of his infamous guide for the US, Canada, and Australia LOL
I've omitted the neighboring countries, because, as TG said, the ease to just drive to certain parts of Germany can blur the picture. So only incoming tourism from countries that require travel by plane has been included.
I'd have guessed that the travel preferences of Americans, Canadians, and Australians should be somewhat similar, which is true for the preference for Bavaria (26-28%). But Berlin is a close #2 for Australians and Canadians, while Americans have Hesse (the Rhine) on the #2 spot and visit Berlin only half as much as Canadians or Australians.
Japanese like Bavaria and Hesse by the same ratio as the Americans, but rarely visit Berlin.
The British share their top 3 preferences quite evenly between Berlin and Bavaria and Northrhine-Westphalia.
While visitors from Spain or Israel have a twice as strong preference for Berlin than for Bavaria.
I wonder if Rick Steve has different editions of his infamous guide for the US, Canada, and Australia LOL
Nov 25th, 2010, 06:33 AM
#51
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thanks for the info, Cowboy. Interesting.
Until I saw a sale of his books in the city's largest bookstore several years ago, I had never heard of Rick Steves.
I don't know about other Canadians, but I am firmly in Berlin " camp".
Until I saw a sale of his books in the city's largest bookstore several years ago, I had never heard of Rick Steves.
I don't know about other Canadians, but I am firmly in Berlin " camp".
Nov 25th, 2010, 02:10 PM
#53
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Hi Lavandula,
I got the data from the market research site of the German National Tourism Board
http://www.germany-tourism.de/ENG/ab...t_research.htm
You will find pdf summaries of the "travel behaviour" of the different countries of origin at the bottom of the list of links.
I got the data from the market research site of the German National Tourism Board
http://www.germany-tourism.de/ENG/ab...t_research.htm
You will find pdf summaries of the "travel behaviour" of the different countries of origin at the bottom of the list of links.
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