There's not much point in debating this unless we know what they drank. One bottle of moderately expensive wine, and a couple of cocktails each could easily amount to 1/3 of that bill.

Marilyn, after a bottle of wine and a couple of cocktails, I don't really care how much the dinner costs!

A "McDonald type place" IN Europe can definitely costclose to $50 for two, especially now with the poor exchange rate. $300 for dinner is not ridiculous for a lot of folks just as a $450 per night hotel room isn't termed ridiculous by some.

What seems "ridiculous" to some seems "perfectly normal" to others.

JonJon and others got this right.

In NYC, Jean-George's lowest Prix Fixe Dinner starts at $85 and climbs to $220 (per person), all without bar additionals, tax and tip. You can easily pay $80 to $150 for a nice bottle of wine. By NYC standards, $150 per person is considered the going rate for any top-tier choice. In Paris, you can easily spend much, much more. Paris' top-tier has ALWAYS been more expensive than anything in NYC and any serious food lover who indulges knows this. The current exchange rate exacerbates the situation.

Celebrated restaurants in Paris are expensive, no matter what the price point of the cuisine. Sure, you can find tasty, affordable places but it takes work, unless your palate wouldn't know good from great.

As I said, when I go to the restaurant I usually know what I am caoable of spending, and if I have $50 to spend on dinner for two I wouldn't go and order a BOTTLE of wine, right ? At any restaurant if you order drinks - you better have more then $50 in your vallet. So, from what I understood they went just to "eat" ...
Anyway, I've already settled for "brag to impress" answer as many of you said that "just to eat" casually it is around $25pp. Yeah, and when they said "like McDonalds" I pictured fast food French food chain.
Thanks to all

Two points seem to keep getting overlooked. While I'll agree the $300 price isn't outrageous as I've already explained, Tat did say "at a mid-range restaurant". Comparing a mid-range (whatever that means) to Jean-George's is a bit off base. In fact now that I think about it, at a mid-range in Paris, $300 for lunch for two would certainly indicate a huge splurge on the wine, considering it isn't a "top-range" restaurant.

Also the "McDonald type restaurant" was supposedly for $50 per person, not for two. That one is really pretty hard to swallow. (pun intended)

Patrick, I wasn't referencing any details offered by Tat or making any comparisons to details in the opening thread. Your histrionic analysis of the intention of my reply is presumption at best. Furthermore, I'm still not convinced Tat is a sincere poster.

Regardless, Alain Ducasse in NYC begins his Prix Fixe at $180 so Jean George's $80 is a bargain, "mid-range" French in NYC by comparison. All this stuff is relative. The ONLY point I was trying to make (and nothing to do with Tat) is that Paris has always taken food seriously and this is, more often than not, represented in the cost.

NYCFoodSnob
will you, paleeease, explain,
why wouldn't i be the sincere poster.
I see it coming on me from some members and I don't know what to think ?
Should I send you some proof of identity or what ?
It is really annoying when people undermine you and there is really no money involved. What is your problem ?

hmmmm ... "a bit off base" is described as an "histrionic analysis". Fearing being accused of the same, I might suggest that to be a bit off base.

wojazz3,
do you mean you've been accused of being "not sincere" as well ?
I think some people just born to regreting fact of not attending a law school for some reason, so they judge left and right for free...

I think it is quite possible to spent $300 for a mid-range restaurant in Paris. We spend $200 or so at mid-range restaurants in DC all the time and Paris is a little more expensive and the dollar is quite weak.

We ate at Taillevant in September and once the charges were converted to dollars, it came out to $475 for two people. Granted Taillevant is "high end", but I could still see a lower level restaurant coming in around $300 with cocktails and wine.

As for the McDonald's...that is a big lie.

Hey Tat,

Ignore some of these idiots. I can just imagine what they must be like in person. We all know the types that I am referring to.

I believe that I have a pretty sizable vocabulary, and it amazes me when I see some of the words that people use to try to impress us.

Listen, I believe that you are somewhat of an analytical. Trying to figure every angle and plan for every possibility. A person that is trying to put together a major trip to Europe for you and your family, with very little help from anyone else. You are probably spending what appears to be a signicant portion of your discretionary annual income. You probably don't speak a word of French or any other langauge, and you are scared, or quite nervous. Taking the advice of complete strangers, me included.

Tough job, but it seems that you are right on track to have a great time. Keep doing your research, keep asking the questions, filter out idiots and their responses. Take special notice of people that seem to want to help and also seem to know what they are talking about.

Have a great time and again, try to study up on some money savings tips. You'll need that kind of help.

have a great trip

Mark

Winnepeg, Tat certainly does speak another language besides English.

Tat, don't be so quick to take offense. You wouldn't believe the things I've been accused of on this forum. It's all just part of the give and take, and you do get excellent travel advice.

I must say we found it difficult to have a real dinner in Paris for $25 per person, and this was last spring when the exchange rate was slightly better. More like $35-50 for good food with decent wine.

Tat, can we bury the hacket and start fresh? It is Christmas, you know.

I thought you were a troll, but am willing now to take you as a sincere poster.

Please excuse the many nasty zingers I sent your way; to include the 1-800 number to the mental health facility. But I think even you had to laugh when you called it and found out it was not fodor's!

Anyway, best of luck to you in your future travels. I'm sure you will learn alot in 2004.

Thank you, Mark.
I'll do just as you said, will ignore them.
At first I thought this site is VERY different as all advices were given professionally and seemed like there was no fooling around. So, I liked it. I still do, thanks to you and many others. Happy Holidays !!!

Yes, Marilyn, I do speak Russian and Ukrainian and I've been to US for 11 years, so I am trully an ESL.
You said "More like $35-50 for good food with decent wine" - so, to me as I do not drink and eat sweets $25 would be possible, right ? I never could have desert after dinner
Does $35-50 for good food with decent wine includes tips ?

Thanks and see you

What we found was that many restaurants had prix fixe meals, with a set number of courses. These were usually 20-35 euros and did not include wine. That's how I came up with my $35-50 figure.

If you make a point of ordering a la carte, and if you don't drink or have dessert, then I don't see any problem with $25 as an average. But perhaps you will treat yourself to one wonderful dinner splurge? You really should -- it's Paris!

NYCFoodSnob, what is your problem with me all of a sudden? I mentioned that comparing Jean-Georges to a "mid-range" restaurant as described in the beginning of the post is "a bit off base". That's what you call a "histronic anaysis of my intention". Get over yourself, dear. My post was NOT all about you, hard as that may be for you to believe. I was not being histronic, nor was I making a general analysis of the intention of your post. I simply made the comment that it was a bit off base to compare Jean George to a "mid-range" Paris restaurant. You don't agree with my statement, fine, but don't say I'm using histronics!!! There is room for varying opinions here. However, you might notice that basically your opinion and mine here seem to be pretty much the same on this subject.

I merely thought that bringing up one of New York's most expensive restaurants didn't have much to do with the specifics of the original post. I didn't realize at the time that your post wasn't intended to have anything to do with the original question. Now you say that your post had nothing to do with referincing details in Tat's original post or making any comparisons to what she was talking about. Normally I assume that posts to a thread do relate to the original question. My mistake! I apologize.

Patrick, haven't you read FoodSnob's posts before. They rarely have anything to do with the thread. They are just a way of her being able to brag about her wonderful taste and good fortune. Why else would she post a detailed reply about a top New York restaurant and then admit that it has nothing to do with the question at hand? And then after being challenged on that, add a detailed description of another one that has nothing to do with the subject either?

But Tat, honestly. The figure you quote for a rather special dinner with good wine at a typical somewhat upper range restaurant in Paris is not at all out of line.

That fast food expense is quite a different matter. I think they're pulling your leg on that one.

Tat, this whole string is kind of funny. I guess we all bring something different to the forum. We just got back from Paris and only once did we spend a lot of money on a meal. (a lot to us) We actually spent 87 euros (for both of us) on a dinner that included wine. We didn't mind and it was a very nice dinner.

The point is, if you are going to see Paris and not just to eat, you can eat very inexpensively. We usually order the set "menu" and I usually won't order anything over about 15 euros. Neither of us is a gourmet. We like simple, well seasoned and well cooked food served in a clean quiet restaurant. There are lots of them in Paris.

All restaurants are required to post their menu outside the door so you can check what they serve and the prices. You just go from place to place checking for what you like to eat and how much it costs. Chose something in your price range and you're okay. You will not look strange doing this. Parisians go from door to door checking prices more often than not and you just join them.

You won't go broke and you will have a lot of fun and eat some very good food. If you can't afford expensive food and you really LOVE to eat, budget for that one good meal and blow your budget once for an excellent meal. If it doesn't mean that much to you, spend the money on something else.

Most of the food in France is pretty good so you won't suffer, even on a budget.

Have a great trip.

Peace on Earth!

Keith