Ireland rental cars - CDW, credit cards & waiver deductible
Apr 12th, 2010, 11:35 PM
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Ireland rental cars - CDW, credit cards & waiver deductible
I have had the pleasure of renting cars in quite a few countries including Italy, but this Ireland collusion trick has us pretty much hog tied.
I will be needing a car in 2 weeks for 18 days - pick up Dublin airport - drop off Dublin City Centre. Perhaps what I have learned may be helpful for someone else.
CDW - the first expense. Most rental companies include it - some have it as an add on, but it's important to know where it is if you want to decline it and get credit card coverage.
Of the travel credit cards which cover rental car insurance (CDW) in foreign countries most specifically exclude Ireland except some Canadian visa cards and the Worldwide Mastercard. There may be others? I am a Canadian with one of the cards that does cover Ireland - you'd think that would be the end of it, however from what I have managed to find out, during the past year or so, every single rental agency in Ireland has done a few things to discourage us from using our card's CDW insurance.
Some companies will not allow the use of the card at all. Of those that allow it, a mandatory "'deposit fee" is CHARGED to the credit card of anywhere between a low of €2000.00 (Atlas, Thrifty, Budget) to a high of €15,000.00 (County Car hire) and everyone else is in the middle somewhere - Sixt is €5000.00 etc
If there is any damage - even scratches, the rental companies will not deal directly with the credit card company- they will keep part or all of the deposit. You are responsible to get reimbursed - this means you must provide a third party paper trail, usually in the form of police report documentation at the time of the infraction, or no refund.
As well as the deposit charge to the credit card, there is an "excess deductible" amount of €1200.00 (the lowest) and up, whether you take their CDW insurance or not.
So even if you take their CDW coverage you aren't covered for the first €1200.00.
In order to bring the deductible to zero (some companies wont even go to zero) the companies charge between €13.00 per day (the cheapest-Budget which is dependent on car class) and the average of €20.00 per day.
From what I have read, heard and picked up, it is better to pay down the deductible than risk an exorbitant charge for a scratch, lost hub cap or broken mirror - again however, you must read the fine print - some companies do not cover glass and tires even if you do pay it down.
The excess can also be purchased from independent brokers.
In conclusion, I do not want a big euro charge sitting on my visa bill for 18 days with the off chance I won't be getting it back right away. i also dont want it hanging over my head that i can't scratch the car without a police report.
Therefore I have decided the best thing to do is what they all want us to do and that is pay for their CDW coverage and the waiver at the best possible price and be done with it
For my itinerary, the best deal by far, with the extras I needed and a reasonable car (VW Golf ) was Budget. Their drop off time was the most flexible (Sat afternoon City Center at 5pm -yes) no one way surcharge, and paying down the waiver (the cheapest rate) covers everything except tires.
I compared costs with every single company I could find - Hertz, Economy, Enterprise, Autoeurope etc as well as the consolidators - Kemwel, Sixt, Europecar
So that's it - I hope what I have gone through may help to make it a little easier for someone else.
I will be needing a car in 2 weeks for 18 days - pick up Dublin airport - drop off Dublin City Centre. Perhaps what I have learned may be helpful for someone else.
CDW - the first expense. Most rental companies include it - some have it as an add on, but it's important to know where it is if you want to decline it and get credit card coverage.
Of the travel credit cards which cover rental car insurance (CDW) in foreign countries most specifically exclude Ireland except some Canadian visa cards and the Worldwide Mastercard. There may be others? I am a Canadian with one of the cards that does cover Ireland - you'd think that would be the end of it, however from what I have managed to find out, during the past year or so, every single rental agency in Ireland has done a few things to discourage us from using our card's CDW insurance.
Some companies will not allow the use of the card at all. Of those that allow it, a mandatory "'deposit fee" is CHARGED to the credit card of anywhere between a low of €2000.00 (Atlas, Thrifty, Budget) to a high of €15,000.00 (County Car hire) and everyone else is in the middle somewhere - Sixt is €5000.00 etc
If there is any damage - even scratches, the rental companies will not deal directly with the credit card company- they will keep part or all of the deposit. You are responsible to get reimbursed - this means you must provide a third party paper trail, usually in the form of police report documentation at the time of the infraction, or no refund.
As well as the deposit charge to the credit card, there is an "excess deductible" amount of €1200.00 (the lowest) and up, whether you take their CDW insurance or not.
So even if you take their CDW coverage you aren't covered for the first €1200.00.
In order to bring the deductible to zero (some companies wont even go to zero) the companies charge between €13.00 per day (the cheapest-Budget which is dependent on car class) and the average of €20.00 per day.
From what I have read, heard and picked up, it is better to pay down the deductible than risk an exorbitant charge for a scratch, lost hub cap or broken mirror - again however, you must read the fine print - some companies do not cover glass and tires even if you do pay it down.
The excess can also be purchased from independent brokers.
In conclusion, I do not want a big euro charge sitting on my visa bill for 18 days with the off chance I won't be getting it back right away. i also dont want it hanging over my head that i can't scratch the car without a police report.
Therefore I have decided the best thing to do is what they all want us to do and that is pay for their CDW coverage and the waiver at the best possible price and be done with it
For my itinerary, the best deal by far, with the extras I needed and a reasonable car (VW Golf ) was Budget. Their drop off time was the most flexible (Sat afternoon City Center at 5pm -yes) no one way surcharge, and paying down the waiver (the cheapest rate) covers everything except tires.
I compared costs with every single company I could find - Hertz, Economy, Enterprise, Autoeurope etc as well as the consolidators - Kemwel, Sixt, Europecar
So that's it - I hope what I have gone through may help to make it a little easier for someone else.
Apr 13th, 2010, 06:48 AM
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Pretty much nailed it, you have. It is getting to be a gargantuan task to deal with CDW issues in Ireland. And remember, since this deposit is a CHARGE to your credit card, even if it is refunded later, you have a foreign currency charge of 2-3%, depending on how much your card charges. So even that minimum E2000 deposit could result in a E40 charge, and the E15000 comes to E300!
Apr 13th, 2010, 07:01 AM
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My experience with renting a car in Ireland: tons of extra charges in very small letters. I used AUTO Europe (who turns it over to a local outfit). My advice would be that you run as fast as you can away from renting from Auto Europe in Ireland. I felt totally vindicated by Better Business Bureau (BBB) who ruled on my favor and I did get money back.
BTW, I posted my experience here before and many replies had me ROTFL as some came in Auto Europe's defense-- I was laughing all the way to the bank while depositing the refund I was awarded!!
BTW, I posted my experience here before and many replies had me ROTFL as some came in Auto Europe's defense-- I was laughing all the way to the bank while depositing the refund I was awarded!!
Apr 13th, 2010, 07:34 AM
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Thanks for the info. A couple of things to add - Even when you purchase excess waiver/super CDW, that typically does NOT cover tires or windows. I recently booked a car rental with Dan Dooley, who had a great rate for the rental, but their excess waiver was, as you noted above, pretty pricey. So I took care of that through Insurance4carhire.com (actually, their sister site Dailyexcess.com). For £4.75 (€5.94) per day, I get excess waiver that also covers tires, windows, etc...
Another thing to keep an eye on is that some companies will charge separately for damage insurance vs. theft insurance.
It certainly is confusing, and frustrating, too. What bothers me most is how the rental companies seem to try to hide these fees. In most cases, you can't pay for excess waiver online, only at the rental counter. For something that can cost between €13.00 and €20.00 per day, that represents a significant portion of the overall rental cost, and not knowing that makes it tough to comparison shop and tough to budget, too.
Another thing to keep an eye on is that some companies will charge separately for damage insurance vs. theft insurance.
It certainly is confusing, and frustrating, too. What bothers me most is how the rental companies seem to try to hide these fees. In most cases, you can't pay for excess waiver online, only at the rental counter. For something that can cost between €13.00 and €20.00 per day, that represents a significant portion of the overall rental cost, and not knowing that makes it tough to comparison shop and tough to budget, too.
Apr 13th, 2010, 07:36 AM
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GreenDragon - are you certain about this being a charge? I seem to recall reading several threads where this is just an authorization on your card and not an actual charge. I think if it was a charge, with the associated conversion fees, there would be a much louder chorus of complaints
Apr 13th, 2010, 07:40 AM
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I think it used to be just a 'hold', but recent research done by Michele Erdvig (at www.irelandyes.com) says that now they are migrating to an actual CHARGE to be reversed when the rental is returned. Of course, the foreign transaction fee would not be returned. See her forums - she has contacted most of the major rental agencies to verify their policies on this, with mixed success.
Apr 13th, 2010, 07:42 AM
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Apr 13th, 2010, 09:38 AM
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GreenDragon - I think you've misread this thread. If I understand it correctly, Budget charged her when she declined CDW. One of the confusing aspects of this is that there are different levels of insurance. CDW is mandated, and typically included. For US and Canadian travelers, there are very few options for getting out from under CDW (such as having a very specific type of credit card that offers its own CDW coverage). For those that are able to decline CDW, it seems that the rental companies are finding other ways to extract money from you, such as charging for declining CDW, or charging your card, then refunding when the car is returned intact.
If you accept the rental company's CDW, you can still opt for a 3rd party excess/super CDW policy, and not incur any extra charges to your card.
A more accurate way to describe the situation is that, if you decline regular CDW, some car rental companies have started a practice of charging your card a €2,000 deposit for declining CDW (Budget Rental, for one). Not all companies do this, and this only applies to regular CDW, and not any excess coverage. I think the bigger take-away here is to book directly with the rental companies and read their terms & conditions carefully.
If you accept the rental company's CDW, you can still opt for a 3rd party excess/super CDW policy, and not incur any extra charges to your card.
A more accurate way to describe the situation is that, if you decline regular CDW, some car rental companies have started a practice of charging your card a €2,000 deposit for declining CDW (Budget Rental, for one). Not all companies do this, and this only applies to regular CDW, and not any excess coverage. I think the bigger take-away here is to book directly with the rental companies and read their terms & conditions carefully.
Apr 13th, 2010, 10:41 AM
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The car rental companies are charging an actual charge (this seems to be only in Ireland) when you decline the CDW, rather than just a deposit like they used to. Please, go and see the thread I posted. There are many details to the situation, for several different rental companies that do business in Ireland.
Apr 13th, 2010, 10:54 AM
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griz_fan
you state in an authoratative manner that
"if you decline regular CDW, some car rental companies have started a practice of charging your card a €2,000 deposit for declining CDW (Budget Rental, for one). Not all companies do this"
As the OP, I can assure you that as of 2 days ago, all the companies do this - if you can name one that doesn't it would be a huge help for everyone. To repeat - I hold the magic card that covers CDW in Ireland and had the full intention of using it, but could not find one company without the charge for declining their CDW coverage. I have scrolled through a lot of fine print to get this information and wanted to pass it on to others.
you state in an authoratative manner that
"if you decline regular CDW, some car rental companies have started a practice of charging your card a €2,000 deposit for declining CDW (Budget Rental, for one). Not all companies do this"
As the OP, I can assure you that as of 2 days ago, all the companies do this - if you can name one that doesn't it would be a huge help for everyone. To repeat - I hold the magic card that covers CDW in Ireland and had the full intention of using it, but could not find one company without the charge for declining their CDW coverage. I have scrolled through a lot of fine print to get this information and wanted to pass it on to others.
Apr 13th, 2010, 11:03 AM
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I read the thread, and I think it is important to accurately state the problem. *Some* rental companies are engaging in this practice (Dan Dooley, for one, seems to be an exception). Your original statement makes it sound like all rental companies do this. The post on page 3 of the thread you mentioned (http://ireland.activeboard.com/forum...rt=oldestFirst) by Itallian Chauffeur expresses the situation well.
Many rental companies in Ireland seem to be imposing terms and conditions geared towards forcing you to buy their CDW coverage. From my perspective, CDW is a fact of life, and I consider it just part of the rental cost. But, excess waiver coverage is one area where you do have some options, such as those mentioned above. To be honest, I'm less concerned about CDW because at least you can get an accurate price online for that cost. What really bothers me is the excess/super-CDW which is definitely a hidden charge...
Many rental companies in Ireland seem to be imposing terms and conditions geared towards forcing you to buy their CDW coverage. From my perspective, CDW is a fact of life, and I consider it just part of the rental cost. But, excess waiver coverage is one area where you do have some options, such as those mentioned above. To be honest, I'm less concerned about CDW because at least you can get an accurate price online for that cost. What really bothers me is the excess/super-CDW which is definitely a hidden charge...
Apr 13th, 2010, 11:04 AM
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Last summer, we rented from Hertz Dublin using a World Mastercard without serious incident and were able to decline their CDW (after signing a waiver) and , IIRC, they only blocked off (not charged) 3000 euros on my card.
The CDW FAQ on their website describes what happened to me:
"Collision Damage Waiver is an optional* service which, if accepted, reduces your financial liability for damage to the Hertz vehicle, its parts and accessories, except for theft, attempted theft or vandalism, provided the vehicle is used in accordance with the terms and conditions of the rental agreement.
* CDW may be mandatory and included in some contract or preferential rates.
Regardless of whether CDW is accepted or included, all rentals are subject to a non-waivable excess ranging from EUR 1,200.00 to EUR 2,500.00, depending on the vehicle group, for which you are responsible in the event of damage to the Hertz vehicle during the rental.
You can further eliminate your excess liability – Please refer to "Super CDW (SCDW)" in the location index for additional information.
If CDW is declined, you will be responsible for the amount of the deductible ranging from EUR 15,000.00 to EUR 90,000.00, depending on the vehicle group.
If you decide not to purchase CDW, you may be required to provide a security deposit in the amount of EUR 3,000.00 at the start of the rental using your credit card. This does not apply to contract rates and/or Hertz #1 Gold customers. If this amount is not available on your credit card, you will have to purchase Collision Damage Waiver (CDW).
If you choose to rely on your credit card for cover, we strongly recommend that you fully understand the terms and conditions of any cover provided by your credit card company before you decline any of our optional services."
I don't know what they actually do today (as opposed to what they SAY they do), but last year we didn't really have a problem with them. I think I paid 80 Euros for a 4 day rental (Pug 207), all-in.
Rick
The CDW FAQ on their website describes what happened to me:
"Collision Damage Waiver is an optional* service which, if accepted, reduces your financial liability for damage to the Hertz vehicle, its parts and accessories, except for theft, attempted theft or vandalism, provided the vehicle is used in accordance with the terms and conditions of the rental agreement.
* CDW may be mandatory and included in some contract or preferential rates.
Regardless of whether CDW is accepted or included, all rentals are subject to a non-waivable excess ranging from EUR 1,200.00 to EUR 2,500.00, depending on the vehicle group, for which you are responsible in the event of damage to the Hertz vehicle during the rental.
You can further eliminate your excess liability – Please refer to "Super CDW (SCDW)" in the location index for additional information.
If CDW is declined, you will be responsible for the amount of the deductible ranging from EUR 15,000.00 to EUR 90,000.00, depending on the vehicle group.
If you decide not to purchase CDW, you may be required to provide a security deposit in the amount of EUR 3,000.00 at the start of the rental using your credit card. This does not apply to contract rates and/or Hertz #1 Gold customers. If this amount is not available on your credit card, you will have to purchase Collision Damage Waiver (CDW).
If you choose to rely on your credit card for cover, we strongly recommend that you fully understand the terms and conditions of any cover provided by your credit card company before you decline any of our optional services."
I don't know what they actually do today (as opposed to what they SAY they do), but last year we didn't really have a problem with them. I think I paid 80 Euros for a 4 day rental (Pug 207), all-in.
Rick
Apr 13th, 2010, 02:00 PM
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It's so too bad that this thread is getting unnecessarily complicated.
griz_fan - regarding rental companies charging the €2000.00 and up deposit fee for declining CDW you state
"I read the thread, and I think it is important to accurately state the problem. *Some* rental companies are engaging in this practice (Dan Dooley, for one, seems to be an exception). Your original statement makes it sound like all rental companies do this"
please go to the Dan Dooley site to rent a car and decline the CDW - this is the message that comes up
"A deposit of € 2000 is required if you choose to decline CDW."
Every rental company that I could find is doing this. Then you state you are not really concerned about the topic of declining the CDW - so please don't post inaccurate information about it.
griz_fan - regarding rental companies charging the €2000.00 and up deposit fee for declining CDW you state
"I read the thread, and I think it is important to accurately state the problem. *Some* rental companies are engaging in this practice (Dan Dooley, for one, seems to be an exception). Your original statement makes it sound like all rental companies do this"
please go to the Dan Dooley site to rent a car and decline the CDW - this is the message that comes up
"A deposit of € 2000 is required if you choose to decline CDW."
Every rental company that I could find is doing this. Then you state you are not really concerned about the topic of declining the CDW - so please don't post inaccurate information about it.
Apr 13th, 2010, 04:05 PM
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Okay. I am totally lost now. To recap. None of my usual gambits for declining CDW (relying on credit card coverage or using American Express's cheap extra insurance) will work in Ireland, so I may just as well give up on the idea and find the company where I will end up with the total lowest cost including CDW. Super CDW is another story and that may have hidden costs so I need to be careful in deciding whether I want it and, if so, how much it costs. Is this it in a nutshell?
I'm also confused about the Dan Dooley option. Is this a good deal or a bad deal? By the way the website for pat preston offers an extra 10% off a Dan Dooley rental. http://www.ireland-withpatpreston.co...gain_page.html
I also see that the OP did not check with Nova. They have been my favorite consolidator or agency in the past, and I have always found good prices there.
I'm also confused about the Dan Dooley option. Is this a good deal or a bad deal? By the way the website for pat preston offers an extra 10% off a Dan Dooley rental. http://www.ireland-withpatpreston.co...gain_page.html
I also see that the OP did not check with Nova. They have been my favorite consolidator or agency in the past, and I have always found good prices there.
Apr 13th, 2010, 05:04 PM
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julies --
Remember that Nova is also a consolidator, so the FINAL say always rests with whatever company they book you through -- and it is THEIR arcane (and often well submerged) conditions that apply.
Currently, in the REPUBLIC of Ireland, the only Credit Cards that offer CDW waiver are CERTAIN Canadian-issued Visa cards, U.S.-issued WORLD MasterCards and (I belive), there are still a FEW rental companies that also accept Diner's Club.
A very nice lady at AMEX's 1-800-338-1670 Insurance Office ASSURED me (on 12 April) that the AMEX exclusion of coverage applied to the REPUBLIC -- ONLY -- and that rentals from Belfast WERE covered, as Northern Ireland is part of the U.K.
The Declaration of Terms that she emailed me moments later, however did NOT specify 'Republic of Ireland', however -- merely the MUCH broader term: 'IRELAND'
I would want a MUCH more DEFINITIVE and UNAMBIGUOUS declaration -- IN WRITING -- though, before I would commit to so significant a risk!
It DOES help, that i always DO have a World MasterCard to fall back on.
Dan Dooley IS worthy of consideration -- if NOTHING else, due to their TRANSPARENCY and Straight-foreward, 'No Suprises' pricing standard. All things considered, that alone is worth at least a $100 PREMIUM -- as in, if they are up to $100 more, they are still worth renting with, over a company that does NOT disclose all their prices "up front" -- things like Road Tax, Premium Location Surcharges, and OTHER 'Local Fees ...
If you MUST buy CDW, consider a company like www.insurance4carhire.com or www.XSWaiver.com RATHER than the GROSSLY over-priced 'Excess' or 'Super-CDW'.
Hope this helps ???
Bob
Remember that Nova is also a consolidator, so the FINAL say always rests with whatever company they book you through -- and it is THEIR arcane (and often well submerged) conditions that apply.
Currently, in the REPUBLIC of Ireland, the only Credit Cards that offer CDW waiver are CERTAIN Canadian-issued Visa cards, U.S.-issued WORLD MasterCards and (I belive), there are still a FEW rental companies that also accept Diner's Club.
A very nice lady at AMEX's 1-800-338-1670 Insurance Office ASSURED me (on 12 April) that the AMEX exclusion of coverage applied to the REPUBLIC -- ONLY -- and that rentals from Belfast WERE covered, as Northern Ireland is part of the U.K.
The Declaration of Terms that she emailed me moments later, however did NOT specify 'Republic of Ireland', however -- merely the MUCH broader term: 'IRELAND'
I would want a MUCH more DEFINITIVE and UNAMBIGUOUS declaration -- IN WRITING -- though, before I would commit to so significant a risk!
It DOES help, that i always DO have a World MasterCard to fall back on.
Dan Dooley IS worthy of consideration -- if NOTHING else, due to their TRANSPARENCY and Straight-foreward, 'No Suprises' pricing standard. All things considered, that alone is worth at least a $100 PREMIUM -- as in, if they are up to $100 more, they are still worth renting with, over a company that does NOT disclose all their prices "up front" -- things like Road Tax, Premium Location Surcharges, and OTHER 'Local Fees ...
If you MUST buy CDW, consider a company like www.insurance4carhire.com or www.XSWaiver.com RATHER than the GROSSLY over-priced 'Excess' or 'Super-CDW'.
Hope this helps ???
Bob
Apr 13th, 2010, 06:20 PM
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I've looked into the possibility (but I'm not needing to test it until June 2011) of getting trip insurance that covers auto - some of them do cover $50,000 of auto insurance. As long as the car is that much or less (not necessarily so when we went to Scotland when the £ was 2:1), it should be fine covering it. Several options from insuremytrip.com does. But I've not tested this!
Apr 13th, 2010, 06:33 PM
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If I have a world Master card and I live in the US, I can decline the CDW? Correct or incorrect? So, Bob, would you rely on the World Mastercard coverage for CDW? And, if not, you'd opt for purchasing it from someplace like the 2 links you suppied me with? But, I thought those links were for the super excess CDW not regular CDW. I always get so confused on all of this confusing language about coverages.
Theoretically, I could decline the rental car's CDW coverage and instead purchase from one of the links you posted, and that would give me everything I need. Correct? Or, will I still be hit up with the large block or charge against my credit card?
Theoretically, I could decline the rental car's CDW coverage and instead purchase from one of the links you posted, and that would give me everything I need. Correct? Or, will I still be hit up with the large block or charge against my credit card?
