Ira and Rex, thank you for your suggestions from my previous message. That was my first message on the international threads. I guess I am a "newbie". My husband and I have created a list, with some help from the kids, over the years of where we would like to go, but I thought it would be interesting to ask that question of the group to generate new ideas.

I realize now that I needed to ask, not only where to go, but why you recommend it? We have decided to go to the Scandinavian countries at this point (June 2005). Probably, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. But I wanted to know why you both suggested the places you did. So if you wouldn't mind elaborating for me. Thank you!

I also learned that I will receive a lot more advice than I asked for too! I thought it was very humorous for someone to tell me my children weren't young, that they should carry their own suitcases and that I should take them to a museum before we go. If they haven't been to a museum yet, we would be in BIG trouble.

By the way, in my post, I did not say that my children have traveled A LOT and love it (US and Canada), like both large cities and quiet, scenic towns, are very restaurant/food savvy, and yes, sometimes act like children!

Ira, you recommended Denmark in June. Rex, Message: I would recommend Lake Garda, Trento, the Dolomites - - all part of northeast Italy, and then an assortment of places in Austria and/or Slovenia. If you could just explain the "why" of those recommendations, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you again for your tolerance of a newbie.

I think you are showing a lack of consideration for hundreds of visitors to this forum with this message header.

Every single person who sees this - - myself and ira included has to take the time to click on your post to see if it contains something that might be of interest, or something that is within a person's expertise.

"Seeking advice, comparing a trip to Scandinavia versus Northern Italy in June" would be much more considerate.

It would also be a fairly good idea to simply continue with additional questions by adding them to yuour original posting. (I don't remember what its message header was - - but you or I or anyone can find it by simply clicking on your name - - likewise, I don't really remember the context of info you provided which prompted me to suggest the destinations that I did).

I know that this is lecturing you, and taking the risk of offending you, coming off as very arrogant. But I believe that you are a polite person, someone who would not cut in line at an amusement park. And you will appreciate that is for the good of the forum; it's not just for you - - dozens of other newcomers will read this as well, and perhaps be dissuaded from writing a message header to a specific individual when info from many people make sense for the question.

Best wishes,

Rex Bickers
Floyds Knobs, Indiana

My apologies to you, Rex, and Ira and to the rest of the Fodorites for wasting your time.

You are not wasting anyone's time..post your question under a general heading of Scandinavian countries. There are lots of people here , other than Rex and ira, who will be happy to answer questions.

mosey - I don't think Rex realised that you had tried to ask him a question in your original post that he hadn't ever answered. Rex always puts his e-mail address so he can be contacted.
You can find all of your previous posts by clicking on your own name.

Ot is not about wasting MY time... and maybe not about wasting anyone's time. I could have written a two sentence answer to your question in less time than I took to explain my position.

Call me "message header obsessive" but it's about speaking out against "anarchy" here. Not much different than if you jaywalked; a petty crime, and one that I commit at times as much as the next person.

But answering your posting with this header is an "endorsement" - - and it sends a little tiny signal to other newcomers - - that this is an okay message header.

And I firmly believe that it is not.

All I asked you to do is re-post.

And you will see that I will answer you.

I might even cut and paste THIS question on to your other posting - - and I have also answerd the 2005 vs 2004 question there (now) as well.

Regards...

rex: as a 'newbie' myself of only a few months and still being able to see how some contributors would come across to another 'newbie' joining this forum, I would have to agree with you that these comments can be construed to be lecturing,offensive,arrogant and might I add self-important?

I can appreciate what you say re message headers, but also as you say - dozens of other newcomers will read this post and be dissuaded.

You might think you are dissuading people from making incorrect or imperfect posts, but posts like this one can also be dissuasive in other ways.

Like making people not want to ever come back.

Really don't mean to be rude,and as you said - you will appreciate it's for the good of the forum

Where's Ira When You Need Him !!!

I take your comments in the good spirit in which they were offered, angel_UK; I have taken comments from others before - - about some things where I really thought I was right - - and little by little, I think I have assimilated, and my style of answering has changed over four and a half years. Some of those comments directed at me over the years have been viciously ad hominem, but others have been kind and civil - - and in some cases, were telling me the same things as the vicious.

I will assimilate this.

Rex
Over the years I have observed you, Ira, Janis, Sheila and many, many others whose names escape me now providing wonderful answers and helpful information to travelers. Its what makes this forum so valuable. However, I am sometimes taken aback by what appears to me to be a little harshness in the replies to some "newbies" who aren't as familiar with the forum and the best way to ask questions. I agree there is a definite advantage to educating these people as to the best way to get information here, but (and I address this to all the regular posters, not just you Rex), it would be nicer to demonstrate a little more patience with those who are not familiar with how this forum works. As Dennis Miller always says, "That's just my opinion."

Rex, I understand your position on this completely. But you need to keep in mind that this isn't a classroom where you can teach the lesson once or twice and have it be learned. There are new people coming in here every single day. So unless you intend to make this header thing your life's mission (please don't), you really need to lighten up on it a little bit.

I will try to be objective here. I think some folks missed the point that Rex is trying to make here.

Mosey posted a question on 2/29/04, asking everyone's opinion on where she should go with her family. A total of 15 different people have answered her with his/her suggestions.

Then Mosey posted a new thread today, with a title addressing to Ira & Rex only, asking them to elaborate their suggestions.

When I saw her post earlier today, naturally, I looked back to see what she asked before, and saw all the responses by 15 posters.

If I were 1 of the 15 posters, I would be upset for being "left out". Several posters wrote long responses to mosey and never got acknowledged.

Also, Mosey's current message header is essentially "monopolizing" the message to just Ira & Rex. That is not the goal of a public "forum".

I think this is what Rex meant in his response to mosey.

As far as people criticizing Rex for being "harsh", "self-important" etc, I believe that is each individual's interpretation. I never find Rex's answer to be rude or arrogant. They are simply "constructive suggestions". There have been so many posts in which Rex was the only person who answered and provided helpful information. I think if these people never got an answer, they are more likely not to return to this forum.

Just my opinion.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34482899

This is just one of many examples of Rex being helpful...

This has to win, hands down, the "most stilted conversation award" of the Fodor's European forum.

Poor Mosey just asks a question of a couple of people she thinks, after a few looks here, might be able to answer her question, and she gets hit with the full textbook on how to post. See page 425 for requesting info from multiple posters.....

I would conjecture that, instead of reading the riot act to new posters about etiquette and posting titles and all that nonsense, that you just answer the question and assume that people other than the ones mentioned in the header will read the question - I did.

It's totally fruitless to try to get new posters to act in a way that is convenient for you, the regular poster. Isn't that obvious? They're new posters, so how would they know?

I have no idea how this forum really works. I was interested in the two areas that you both (Rex and Ira) suggested. The suggestions that other people made were self evident. I went out to other postings regarding the areas you and Ira suggested, but I was interested in what you had to say specifically regarding my circumstances. Since I had asked you a question, Rex, and you never replied, I figured that posting a new message would get a response. Up until now, I had great respect for how you and Ira handled yourselves in the postings that I have read. And I feel I have read many!

I am afraid I am thin skinned, and thought (after getting your reply), well my personality just doesn't fit this forum and I will no longer seek information here. I guess, it would be biting off my nose to spite my face. Alas, I am of Irish heritage and we may be quite good at that! I will lick my wounds and eventually get back to getting good advice from so many wonderful people. Again, as with raising my children, at this point, I don't see any instructions with this forum.

Mosey, don't worry about fitting in around here. There are A LOT of misfits who post on this forum.

Mosey, there are only a handful here with an "attitude." Be it their grammar or expertise in other areas. Dont let them get to you. There are too many others here that want to share with you as well as learn from your experiences.

Holly,

I value your opinion, and I am tending to ignore the "Help!" pointless message headers, though I think it is a disservice to all - - that those posts get the same attention as those who observe more common sense and learn, by example, some of the basics of how to post.

I think that this thread got me to switch into lecture mode because it has MY NAME in the header. Ignoring it, which would be my philosophical preference, seems rude. So I explain why I would simply like the poster to take my suggestion, and not use my name (or any other poster's name) as the way to single out the person that _they_ think is best qualified to answer a question.

It seems like an act of stubbornness at this point for me not to answer the question - - to elaborate on why I suggested the destinations that I did.

Though not evident from the info posted on THIS thread, this couple has a fair amount of experience in traveling in Europe. So I further infer that they have some choice as to where to go and when, as part of planning trips to Europe. I have traveled in spring, summer and (early) fall - - and I think that when you have choices, the better summer destinations are up into higher elevations. I am not a big fan of Switzerland (seems overpriced to me, though I thought the weather was nice when I was there in August 92, August 96 and September 2000); I have not traveled very much in the Alps of Germany; I like the French Alps, pretty much all of Austria, and northern Italy. I think that Lake Garda is a good family destination, more so than the French Alps. So I picked places that _I_ know, and that _I_ liked; the "upland destinations" of northern Italy and Austria - - and threw in a little bit of Slovenia - - because I like what I hear about it. It adds a touch of "more off the beaten path" - - and it's a place that _I_ would like to go (to explore).

So, there's your answer, mosey.

And if you never come back and read it, then I have indeed, screwed up.

It looks like I was composing while you were adding your latest post. There actually ARE instructions - - why they make them so inconspicuous is a mystery, and a consternation to me.

Look in the upper lefthand corner at the tiny red letters "HELP".

One more final p.s. - - and this is a bit of a chuckle for me... so please try to take it in this spirit!

I pledge NOT to touch http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34483153