Sue_xx_yy

The surviving locals probably have many opinions, as diverse as the ones on this board. Indeed, maybe some locals think it's insensitive to sunbathe, with or without a suit, after a disaster. Then again, maybe other locals actually asked the tourists in question to give the place a sense of hope that normalcy will return. This could be badly needed, I know I would need it, I have after my own private small tragedies.

We also don't know whether the tourists in question spent all day sunbathing, or whether they had, in fact, just finished spending a few hours or even just an hour helping out. All-or-nothing thinking is common, but rarely accurate.

I'm frustrated by the double bind on this board. On the one hand we support, or at least say we support, the need for free discussion (within Fodors limitations) on the board. However, discussion which doesn't allow for controversial or unpopular opinions to be aired is not truly free. It's fine to express one's opinion that to sunbathe is insensitive, but it is not supportive to open discussion to preface this view with "just when you think you have heard everything". To say this, seaurchin, is not to support your point but a pre-emptive attack on any dissenter to your view, by implying that they should not be taken seriously at best, and reviled as insensitive at worst. I understand your yearning for the world to be sensitive, but it is unreasonable to try to pressure anyone into conforming to a universal standard of sensitivity that you have yet to prove exists.

Robespierre

Tourism income <u>is</u> important. In fact, in their mind, it takes precedence over the safety of their clients: they chose not to warn of the approaching wave for fear of impacting their revenues.

Who knows how many people their greed killed? (Yeah, I know, false alarms and all that. But there is such a thing as &quot;erring on the side of caution.&quot

amelia

Sue has made many good points. She is so right that many of the people who were &quot;dancing in the New Year&quot; may also have worked all day on the beaches clearing debris, or perhaps the sunbathing couple that was such a visual affront in the newspaper had helped management clean up their hallway that day. We have no way of knowing.

simpsonc510

Flanneruk, you are right on target with your comment about journalists. I have learned to read newspapers with much caution, listen to the nightly news with an open mind, and remember that there is always another side to the story being reported!

I will continue to support the idea of returning to Thailand very soon in order to help their economy (and lend a hand in clean up). Family and friends are going there as soon as early January. My own trip will not be until March. I wish it would be sooner than that.

Robes... you are sensationalizing when you suggest that there was no warning because the Thais didn't want tourists to leave! That is outrageous indeed!!

Seaurchin, some sunbathers are topless, and YES, that goes against the grain of the Thai people who are very gracious and modest, and who..by the way.. do not go to the beach and sunbathe as they prefer their skin to be lighter rather than darker.

Grasshopper

It seems to me if you're heart is really in the right place you'll send the money you would have spent (go ahead and send it to the hotel for very focused &quot;disaster relief&quot and stay home so you don't consume the sadly depleted resources.

Zeus

Since I'm not there I can't comment (unlike some) on just how aware these &quot;low class jerks&quot; are of the devastation. Not every place was hit as hard, as evidenced by the limited damage done to many of the modern hotels. Do they have TV's in their rooms? Do they get daily newspapers? Who pays all that much attention to the news when they're on vacation? I can go two weeks in modern, civilized Europe without reading a newspaper or watching TV.

Why must people always find fault with what everybody else is doing? If you're doing something to help, then be happy with that. Worry about yourself. Oops, there I go espousing Christian ethics again. Sorry.

Patrick

The suggestion that greed of hotel owners caused them to deliberately fail to warn of danger, thereby causing death, is one of the most outrageous and unjustified statements I have ever read here.

Believe it or not I've been to parties after funerals where people laughed, danced, and had fun. I guess many of you would think that was totally uncalled for too. I hope at my funeral there is lots of entertainment and laughter! We all have different ways of relieving stress and sadness. Why must so many people thing their way is the only way?

hansikday

Zeus, I think you are really reaching here.

The low class jerks we were talking about were partying right beside the damn wreckage. I find it very hard to believe that any tourist in southern Thailand could not be aware of the disaster.

Robespierre

&quot;Mr Thaksin's remarks follow allegations made by an unnamed member of the Thai meteorological department this week that <font color="red">a tsunami alert was not issued for fear of hurting the country's important tourism industry</font> in case it turned out to be a false alarm.&quot;

<b>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4139435.stm</b>

<b>http://www.bday.net/detail.asp?id=60376</b>

<font color="BLUE">WANT MORE?</font>

Clifton

Agree with hansikday on this one, as relates to these people's class.

It's good to help the economy. Money would be very useful there right now I'm sure, but there's no harm in having some respect.

SeaUrchin

Sue, good point and actually I agree with you. I wrote that right after reading the article and without thinking all the sides through first. IMHO you all have raised good points, that is what discussion is all about.

Patrick, I think when it is a person's own friend who has died is a different story than when a disaster hits your guest country and you are in the midst of it.

I think a tourist should think in his/her own heart what would offend the locals, such as topless bathing which is perfectly fine under certain circumstances. Yes, we don't know if the tourists had spent the day volunteering and needed to let off steam. I don't think there is really an overall right or wrong answer to the question. I like a good discussion though!

brotherleelove2004

I'd truly like to know just what &quot;certain circumstances&quot; can justify public nudity in a country where the native population is embarrassed and upset by this particular practice. I have no objection to topless sunbathing or total nudity for that matter. I've participated myself for more years that I care to remember, but I would NEVER presume to practice any form of naturism or nudity in a country where it was not an accepted practice. What makes it OK in Thailand?

SeaUrchin

If you are referring to what I wrote, I think the certain circumstances would be where it is accepted practice.

Clifton

You know, I had been reading a trip report from Egypt and there were comments about some young European women whipping off the tops as they cruised down the Nile. Brilliant, in a generally Muslim country.

It's probably a lot more along the lines that there will always be a certain segment of tourists that feel like as long as they have some money in hand, that they've paid their way through whatever bad behavior they're about to commit.

brotherleelove2004

Sad, but all too true, I'm sorry to say.

illusion321

I feel these people are helping the economy. As mentioned eariler, alot of the employement in that area focuses around tourism, and by tourist continuning to come to the area, despite the threat of diease, they are helping the native people. I am sure these tourist are also helping out people.

simpsonc510

Please go to www.sawadee.com to find out just how important tourism is... and the firsthand situation, in the tsunami affected areas of Thailand. Yes, it is horrible, and our prayers and donations are vital.

Thailand has the infrastructure that is so important in recovering from this terrible event. If you read the site listed, you will understand that tourists are being asked to return as they are the very heart of the economy!

peeky

If I were burying my dead children the last thing I would want to see is a tourist dancing around as if nothing had happened. If the tourist would be sensative enough to stay in a roped off area and not in the devastation zone I guess that would be ok.

The locals can collect the money the tourists are spending and still resent the tourist which is what is happening I think.

Tallulah

I am utterly humbled, appalled and sickened by what has taken place in the last week. As is so often the case in these situations, it is exacerbated by the fact that for various reasons it has happened in areas that sadly don't have the infrastructure to deal with it. For this reason it will be many years - and heartbreakingly, it would appear, many more deaths - before this region returns to what it was only a week or so ago. It is therefore imperative that tourism (upon which so many people rely) resume as soon as possible, albeit as sensitively as possible.

I, personally, am horrified to have seen pictures of tourists sunbathing (I rather doubt that the locals care too much whether topless or not right now) so soon after the tragedy. There's a time to relax and there's a time to dig in and do what you can, whilst thanking the powers that be that you're alive.

Robespierre

Let me put this as simply as I can:

<b><i>Your money is more important to these people than your well-being.</i></b> (See links in my previous post.)

Your call.