Independent trip to Italy
Mar 8th, 2013, 06:03 AM
#21
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If you're willing to stay in hostels or even at camp grounds, you guys could really cut down on costs. If you do your research, you can find some very decent, clean rooms in good locations for 25-40/per night. You could get a dorm for 7 people quite easily. Some of the campgrounds I saw had beds starting at $18 per night (CDN). Sure, the accommodations won't be very pretty for the most part, but really, mostly all you'll be doing there is sleeping and bathing, so who cares?
Mar 8th, 2013, 07:27 AM
#22
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Well, if you stay at a campground, you'll have to add the time and expense of getting into town -- to see the sights -- and back out.
In Rome, Florence and Venice, you can stay in convents for less; look at www.monasterystays.com for starters.
While most people here have planned their own trips, not everybody has traveled with a group, which raises different issues. Have these 7 people traveled together before? Do you all have similar expectations about where to stay -- in the center convenient to sights/away from the center where it's cheaper but you must take public transportation. Do you all agree on when to get up, when to get going, the quality of your accommodations, which sights are the important ones, the pace at which you travel? Do some people want to strike out on their own in a city and others want to be led around? And are you prepared to be the tour guide, buy and hand out the tickets, handle the problems, take the blame if things don't work out?
Here's an introduction to group travel: www.slowtrav.com/europe/es_large_groups.htm. There are a number of trip reports here about group travel, most of them not so positive.
Good luck!
In Rome, Florence and Venice, you can stay in convents for less; look at www.monasterystays.com for starters.
While most people here have planned their own trips, not everybody has traveled with a group, which raises different issues. Have these 7 people traveled together before? Do you all have similar expectations about where to stay -- in the center convenient to sights/away from the center where it's cheaper but you must take public transportation. Do you all agree on when to get up, when to get going, the quality of your accommodations, which sights are the important ones, the pace at which you travel? Do some people want to strike out on their own in a city and others want to be led around? And are you prepared to be the tour guide, buy and hand out the tickets, handle the problems, take the blame if things don't work out?
Here's an introduction to group travel: www.slowtrav.com/europe/es_large_groups.htm. There are a number of trip reports here about group travel, most of them not so positive.
Good luck!
Mar 8th, 2013, 08:53 AM
#23
>>>Flights from NYC look like they run anywhere from $560 - $800 to Milan or Venice. We would be going in May 2014,<<<
I find Kayak gives flight prices that don't actually exist when you start to book. Use something more reliable to check prices. Airlines don't load their flights until around 10 months out (about the 330 day mark).
When you get within the booking window (10 months), start looking at flights. I use Itasoftware to search. If your dates are flexible, you can enter the departure cites/arrival cities (enter multiples such as FCO,MXP to search several at once), a range of days you want to stay (11-14) and use the month long search.
It's a false economy to book a flight in and out of Milan if your plans are Venice/Florence/Rome. The cost of getting from Milan to your cities has to factored in and the waste of a day of your vacation backtracking for your flight home. Usually the difference in flying into Milan (or Venice) and home from Rome is less than the transport back to Milan plus you don't waste that day.
>>>I had to separate it into two trips ATL to NYC and then NYC to Milan<<<
That is a very risky thing to do. If your first flight gets delayed, you might miss your second flight. The airlines have no obligation to put you on another flight unless it's all on one ticket. If you miss your second flight, you'll be out your money and need to buy a walk-up fare ($$$$).
>>>n Rome, Florence and Venice, you can stay in convents for less; look at www.monasterystays.com for starters. <<<
While monasterystays is a good tool for looking at some of the convents, they are a reseller and mark up the prices (as much as 10-15€ per night on a single_. If you want to book one, post here the name and I likely have the direct contact info.
There are some reasonable prices on farmhouses in Tuscany (less than $2000), but it will require you to rent two cars which can be costly (7 people and luggage will not fit in a van unless you get a 9 passenger van). What exactly do you want to do or see in Tuscany?
I stayed in one of these apartments a few years ago for 45€ per night. Click on contattaci to see nightly rates, but they also have a weekly rate if you e-mail.
http://www.ilgiardinosegretopienza.it/
I also stayed outside Pienza at this agriturismo which wasn't expensive.
http://www.agriturismobonellinovecch...farmhouse.html
I find Kayak gives flight prices that don't actually exist when you start to book. Use something more reliable to check prices. Airlines don't load their flights until around 10 months out (about the 330 day mark).
When you get within the booking window (10 months), start looking at flights. I use Itasoftware to search. If your dates are flexible, you can enter the departure cites/arrival cities (enter multiples such as FCO,MXP to search several at once), a range of days you want to stay (11-14) and use the month long search.
It's a false economy to book a flight in and out of Milan if your plans are Venice/Florence/Rome. The cost of getting from Milan to your cities has to factored in and the waste of a day of your vacation backtracking for your flight home. Usually the difference in flying into Milan (or Venice) and home from Rome is less than the transport back to Milan plus you don't waste that day.
>>>I had to separate it into two trips ATL to NYC and then NYC to Milan<<<
That is a very risky thing to do. If your first flight gets delayed, you might miss your second flight. The airlines have no obligation to put you on another flight unless it's all on one ticket. If you miss your second flight, you'll be out your money and need to buy a walk-up fare ($$$$).
>>>n Rome, Florence and Venice, you can stay in convents for less; look at www.monasterystays.com for starters. <<<
While monasterystays is a good tool for looking at some of the convents, they are a reseller and mark up the prices (as much as 10-15€ per night on a single_. If you want to book one, post here the name and I likely have the direct contact info.
There are some reasonable prices on farmhouses in Tuscany (less than $2000), but it will require you to rent two cars which can be costly (7 people and luggage will not fit in a van unless you get a 9 passenger van). What exactly do you want to do or see in Tuscany?
I stayed in one of these apartments a few years ago for 45€ per night. Click on contattaci to see nightly rates, but they also have a weekly rate if you e-mail.
http://www.ilgiardinosegretopienza.it/
I also stayed outside Pienza at this agriturismo which wasn't expensive.
http://www.agriturismobonellinovecch...farmhouse.html
Mar 8th, 2013, 01:44 PM
#24
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Wow such great ideas.
We want to stay in Tuscany more than anything because we are nature lovers and the scenery is supposed to be beautiful. The 7 going are all my family (my husband and I and our 4 grown children and daughter in law), so we are all good to go everywhere together. We don't mind cooking for ourselves for some meals and eating out no more than once a day.
Has anyone ever rented a 9 passenger van? I was thinking 2 cars was what we would have to do. Do the cars seat 4 people?
Our must sees are Rome, Florence and Venice other than staying the week in Tuscany. We can certainly travel to Florence for the day from Tuscany and not have to stay in a hotel there.
Do you think the 2 flight thing is risky if we get a flight into NYC in the early morning and have the flight out to Rome be at night. We don't mind hanging out in the airport all day in NYC. It is at least a $2800 savings to do it this way in some cases. I will try though to find cheap flights out of ATL.
Thanks for all of the advice. It is priceless!
We want to stay in Tuscany more than anything because we are nature lovers and the scenery is supposed to be beautiful. The 7 going are all my family (my husband and I and our 4 grown children and daughter in law), so we are all good to go everywhere together. We don't mind cooking for ourselves for some meals and eating out no more than once a day.
Has anyone ever rented a 9 passenger van? I was thinking 2 cars was what we would have to do. Do the cars seat 4 people?
Our must sees are Rome, Florence and Venice other than staying the week in Tuscany. We can certainly travel to Florence for the day from Tuscany and not have to stay in a hotel there.
Do you think the 2 flight thing is risky if we get a flight into NYC in the early morning and have the flight out to Rome be at night. We don't mind hanging out in the airport all day in NYC. It is at least a $2800 savings to do it this way in some cases. I will try though to find cheap flights out of ATL.
Thanks for all of the advice. It is priceless!
Mar 8th, 2013, 01:48 PM
#25
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Honestly Tuscany is beautiful...but it is not the be all end all...it is much more expensive than the places I me named above...if you are on a budget the other places are just as beautiful, and everything from accommodations to restaurants are cheaper...they just aren't as well known to Americans...
Mar 8th, 2013, 01:49 PM
#26
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Here is our trip report from last year for le marche and Puglia http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...t-do-italy.cfm
Mar 8th, 2013, 01:50 PM
#27
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Another thing to consider is that there quite a number of rural areas in Italy where the scenery is beautiful and nature lovers will have a ball that aren't anywhere near as pricey as Tuscany, where real estate values are probably the highest in the country. Just a thought.
I haven't rented a 9-passenger van, but I've been in one that a tour guide friend has rented. They are huge, and I wouldn't want to drive one on narrow lanes in Europe (and I've been driving in Europe for 30 + years). Also, it will mean your group will be joined at the hip for driving excursions. Maybe that'll be fine. I couldn't take it.
I haven't rented a 9-passenger van, but I've been in one that a tour guide friend has rented. They are huge, and I wouldn't want to drive one on narrow lanes in Europe (and I've been driving in Europe for 30 + years). Also, it will mean your group will be joined at the hip for driving excursions. Maybe that'll be fine. I couldn't take it.
Mar 8th, 2013, 02:02 PM
#28
Sure I always plan my own trips. It's easy. Figure out where you want to go, buy a plane ticket, make a few hotel reservations.
Rome/Venice/Florence is very easy to plan and then do by train. Sorry a farm house in Tuscany is out of my range of experience and will take a bit more work.
Rome/Venice/Florence is very easy to plan and then do by train. Sorry a farm house in Tuscany is out of my range of experience and will take a bit more work.
Mar 8th, 2013, 02:02 PM
#29
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We are flying out this May from NYC, we got a good deal on Air Berlin to Milan - through Dusseldorf for around 700.00. We too can get great rates to NYC from CLT. I think you need to really look around at places to stay, vrbo.com is the site we usually use and have done so on this trip as well. You have lots of time to look. You will save lots of money and have a good time cooking for yourself. Going to the markets and planning meals is a big part of our trip planning. Good luck!
Mar 8th, 2013, 02:33 PM
#30
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Look, you really cannot think you are saving $2800 in air fare until you know if you can actually get those low fares, and your trip is still way out. Plus, you need 7 fares, and there may not be that many to be had on the same flights for the cheap fare. I would also caution against separate tickets; anything can happen, let's say mechanical problems, that could delay flight A long enough to miss flight B, and airline B has no obligation to you. I would try to fly from your home airport.
The idea of 2 cars, with 7 people, is a good one. And you will have flexibility for times when possibly everyone does NOT want to do the same things. Look for apartment rentals, can definitely save on food costs that way.
The idea of 2 cars, with 7 people, is a good one. And you will have flexibility for times when possibly everyone does NOT want to do the same things. Look for apartment rentals, can definitely save on food costs that way.
Mar 9th, 2013, 08:22 AM
#31
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Ok, so in looking at agriturismo (spelling?), how do you know if the pictures of the farmhouses and their property is really what you are going to see when you get there. I know that the 3 travel books I have from Fodor's list www.agriturismo.net and www.agriturismo.it as websites to look at. Does that mean that any farmhouse on those sites is going to be safe to choose from since it is listed in Fodor's? I have also seen farmhouses on vrbo.com and tuscanyaccomodations.com. I heard that some people have their farmhouses listed on multiple locations and one is 2/3's higher price. How do you know who and what website to trust?
Mar 9th, 2013, 08:36 AM
#32
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There is always a leap of faith, but if you look at properties on vrbo and www.slowtrav.com, and read the reviews, you should be good. Same with the other websites you have from Fodors. We have rented from vrbo many times, and have always had a good experience. Again, read the reviews. I am less comfortable with unreviewed listings, but sometimes they are just new.
Mar 9th, 2013, 09:39 AM
#33
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Two separate cars for 7 people will be much easier than one 9-person van. I've driven one of those behemoths around Italy, and though they're fine on the autostrada, they are a nightmare on local roads and in small towns.
Here's a piece from a 2006 post of mine:
>>>As a result of an ill-informed decision on my part, we (my wife, our son, another couple and me) ended up having rented a Fiat Ducato in Italy in 2003. This is a VERY large nine-passenger van, probably the most impractical vehicle one could imagine for navigating the narrow streets you find in Umbrian hilltowns, which is where we spent the bulk of our 2 week vacation.
Each day, I began sweating profusely as we approached another new town ... Spoleto, Assisi, Todi, Spello, etc ... wondering how I was going to maneuver that monstrosity through the tiny alley-like roads. The day we visited Perugia, I met my match when I reached a tangled intersection of ancient streets in the old town. I had one option ... make a hard right turn onto a ridiculously tight cobblestone "street", on a very steep downgrade, leading to an old stone arch and eventually, supposedly, a parking area. After 3 or 4 attempts to make this turn, I became hopelessly wedged-in between the stone wall of a house behind me and a signpost in front of me, with no more than a couple of inches to spare, and on what seemed like a 90' grade. As the cars began to back up and the horns started sounding behind me, I squeezed out of the driver's side of the "bus" and threw up my arms in total frustration ... I had no idea what to do. My travelling mates were equally useless.
Out of a car that had been 2 or 3 vehicles behind us emerged a young man of about 19 or 20, who asked in very good English if he could be of help. Of course, I had little choice but to accept his offer. With a smile, he climbed in behind the wheel, and within a few seconds, had worked the Fiat free, and positioned it so that it was aimed straight ahead, down the steep slope. He then asked us to wait in the vehicle while he somehow guided his car around us, and signalled me to follow him ... still a big, happy smile on his face the entire time. He escorted us through the arch, made a few more turns, and saw us safely to the parking garage we had been looking for. Without giving me any other opportunity to thank him, or show my appreciation in a material way, he waved and disappeared down a side street.>>>
You might not meet up with that nice young Italian guy to help you out of a jam ;-)
Here's a piece from a 2006 post of mine:
>>>As a result of an ill-informed decision on my part, we (my wife, our son, another couple and me) ended up having rented a Fiat Ducato in Italy in 2003. This is a VERY large nine-passenger van, probably the most impractical vehicle one could imagine for navigating the narrow streets you find in Umbrian hilltowns, which is where we spent the bulk of our 2 week vacation.
Each day, I began sweating profusely as we approached another new town ... Spoleto, Assisi, Todi, Spello, etc ... wondering how I was going to maneuver that monstrosity through the tiny alley-like roads. The day we visited Perugia, I met my match when I reached a tangled intersection of ancient streets in the old town. I had one option ... make a hard right turn onto a ridiculously tight cobblestone "street", on a very steep downgrade, leading to an old stone arch and eventually, supposedly, a parking area. After 3 or 4 attempts to make this turn, I became hopelessly wedged-in between the stone wall of a house behind me and a signpost in front of me, with no more than a couple of inches to spare, and on what seemed like a 90' grade. As the cars began to back up and the horns started sounding behind me, I squeezed out of the driver's side of the "bus" and threw up my arms in total frustration ... I had no idea what to do. My travelling mates were equally useless.
Out of a car that had been 2 or 3 vehicles behind us emerged a young man of about 19 or 20, who asked in very good English if he could be of help. Of course, I had little choice but to accept his offer. With a smile, he climbed in behind the wheel, and within a few seconds, had worked the Fiat free, and positioned it so that it was aimed straight ahead, down the steep slope. He then asked us to wait in the vehicle while he somehow guided his car around us, and signalled me to follow him ... still a big, happy smile on his face the entire time. He escorted us through the arch, made a few more turns, and saw us safely to the parking garage we had been looking for. Without giving me any other opportunity to thank him, or show my appreciation in a material way, he waved and disappeared down a side street.>>>
You might not meet up with that nice young Italian guy to help you out of a jam ;-)
Mar 9th, 2013, 12:16 PM
#34
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deb, don't get hung up on the "agriturismo" label. There are plenty of "apartments" and/or homes you can rent (vrbo.com) that won't be part of a working farm. But they can be out in Tuscany's little towns/villages. This has the benefits of Tuscany views and still having some local places to shop/explore/eat at.
Some examples: http://www.vrbo.com/955624ha
http://www.vrbo.com/376809
http://www.vrbo.com/1024546ha
Some examples: http://www.vrbo.com/955624ha
http://www.vrbo.com/376809
http://www.vrbo.com/1024546ha
Mar 9th, 2013, 12:18 PM
#35
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And don't get hung up on Tuscany, either. As I mentioned previously, it's the most expensive real estate in Italy, along with the Amalfi Coast. There are PLENTY of other places in Italy with gorgeous scenery and nature where you could save a lot of money!
Mar 10th, 2013, 07:22 AM
#36
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I'm not a fan of VRBO or other listing sites for owners. Your experience is only as good as the owner. And they're allowed to reject unfavorable reviews. I prefer to rent from reliable agencies -- but that does add the agency fee unto the rent. Look at www.slowtravel.com for reviews of villas and apartments and rental agencies.
Also most villas rent from Saturday to Saturday. Figure that into your itinerary.
So you have 2 weeks and want to spend one week in a villa/agriturismo and the other week seeing Rome, Florence, and Venice. That's not much time for 3 major sites. If you rented a villa with easy access to Florence by bus or train, you could do a daytrip to Florence, and cross that destination off your list.
When looking at flights, check open-jaws (multi-city) tickets, say, into Venice out of Rome. They should cost the same as roundtrip tickets, but save you the cost and time of backtracking.
Also most villas rent from Saturday to Saturday. Figure that into your itinerary.
So you have 2 weeks and want to spend one week in a villa/agriturismo and the other week seeing Rome, Florence, and Venice. That's not much time for 3 major sites. If you rented a villa with easy access to Florence by bus or train, you could do a daytrip to Florence, and cross that destination off your list.
When looking at flights, check open-jaws (multi-city) tickets, say, into Venice out of Rome. They should cost the same as roundtrip tickets, but save you the cost and time of backtracking.
Mar 10th, 2013, 09:14 AM
#37
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Yes. That is our plan as far as Florence goes. We will go there while staying the week in Tuscany or Umbria. Is a day trip enough time in Florence? What are the must sees in Florence? Also, is there a preference in staying in Rome at the front end of the trip and Venice at the back end. How many days do you have to have in Rome and Venice to do it justice? Is is crazy to do the one day excursion to Capri from Rome that I notice on the tours? We would like to see the Amalfi coast and Capri while there but don't know if that is trying to squeeze too much in too fast. This is a once in a lifetime experience and we want to see all that we can. I know that is not realistic especially with our budget. Is there a huge difference between seeing the Cirque de Terre and the Amalfi Coast?
Mar 10th, 2013, 10:03 AM
#38
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A guidebook or the Destinations guides on this website can tell you the usual major "must-sees", but you really have to decide what is YOUR must-see.
Typically, many here recommend that if your are from the U.S., you should fly to Venice and home from Rome, mostly because of the flight schedules available. Often Venice requires a connecting flight, so flights back to the U.S. can be very, very early. This may not necessarily be true for you. Delta has a direct flight between Venice and JFK that flies five days a week and departs around noon. You'll have to research your best options.
I think a one-day trip to Capri is a bit "crazy" to use your own word. Why? You may not be able to get there if there is any problem with the weather and the boats aren't running. You will travel 3-4 hours in each direction to be herded like cattle with the rest of the day-trippers. Also, those one-day trips can be quite pricey and would probably not fit in the budget you have mentioned.
Typically, many here recommend that if your are from the U.S., you should fly to Venice and home from Rome, mostly because of the flight schedules available. Often Venice requires a connecting flight, so flights back to the U.S. can be very, very early. This may not necessarily be true for you. Delta has a direct flight between Venice and JFK that flies five days a week and departs around noon. You'll have to research your best options.
I think a one-day trip to Capri is a bit "crazy" to use your own word. Why? You may not be able to get there if there is any problem with the weather and the boats aren't running. You will travel 3-4 hours in each direction to be herded like cattle with the rest of the day-trippers. Also, those one-day trips can be quite pricey and would probably not fit in the budget you have mentioned.
Mar 11th, 2013, 07:21 AM
#39
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Capri AND the Amalfi Coast in one day from Rome? Insane!
You can't do everything. And if you try, you won't really enjoy your trip.
ellenem has explained the reason for going to Venice first. In addition, it's an easy introduction to Italy, because it has no traffic, no trucks, cars, vespas. And arriving in Italy after a long overnight flight, you (or at least some of you) will be sleepy and jet-lagged. (For me jet-lag means waking up at 3 AM totally alert and ready to go, then getting sleepy about 8 PM, just when it's time for dinner in Italy. For several days.) But wandering around in a jet-lagged, sleepy daze, getting lost, is appropriate sightseeing in Venice.
Unless you are great fans of Italian Renaissance art and architecture, limiting your time in Florence to one daytrip makes sense given your itinerary. Which sights you see in Florence is a matter of your taste. Research online or in guidebooks; you can get them from your library.
You can't do everything. And if you try, you won't really enjoy your trip.
ellenem has explained the reason for going to Venice first. In addition, it's an easy introduction to Italy, because it has no traffic, no trucks, cars, vespas. And arriving in Italy after a long overnight flight, you (or at least some of you) will be sleepy and jet-lagged. (For me jet-lag means waking up at 3 AM totally alert and ready to go, then getting sleepy about 8 PM, just when it's time for dinner in Italy. For several days.) But wandering around in a jet-lagged, sleepy daze, getting lost, is appropriate sightseeing in Venice.
Unless you are great fans of Italian Renaissance art and architecture, limiting your time in Florence to one daytrip makes sense given your itinerary. Which sights you see in Florence is a matter of your taste. Research online or in guidebooks; you can get them from your library.
Mar 11th, 2013, 09:27 AM
#40
<This is a once in a lifetime experience and we want to see all that we can.>
Many first-time planners make this mistake. Quantity is not quality. You will not end up with a "better" trip because you tried to see 10 places, in a timeframe that would better accomodate only 3-4 stops.
Many first-time planners make this mistake. Quantity is not quality. You will not end up with a "better" trip because you tried to see 10 places, in a timeframe that would better accomodate only 3-4 stops.
