suzyq53

We're debating between which way to travel to Italy in September'05. 3 of us (ages 46-65). Never been to Europe before and don't speak the language! I like the comfort of escorted group but the ability to choose what to do is also inviting. Don't know which would be cheaper either. Any thoughts?

LoveItaly

suzyq, I think you will find that the majority of people on Fodors will tell you to travel independently.

Personally I would never do a tour.

All Americans go to Europe for the first time and do just great. You can learn a few polite words. Tourist oriented service workers in Europe know enough English that you will not have a problem

This decision is yours of course.

Why don't you check out tour groups and the cost per person versus buying airline tickets, hotel rooms,train tickets etc. and then make your decision.

Happy travels

HowardR

On our first trip to Europe, we sort of took the middle ground by booking what is called an "Independent" tour, which included only air travel, hotels, train travel between cities and a couple other minor items. We felt secure knowing that these basics were taken care of for us, while at the same time, happy to know that how we spent most of our time was up to us.
When we did it a few years, I know that at least American Express, American Airlines and Delta had this type of package.

Grasshopper

You might want to check out www.untours.com. It's a nice middle ground. Also, keep in mind you can take day excursions when you are in Italy. From Florence we took a couple of CAF Tours that were fun and interesting.

StuDudley

I've assisted many people with itineraries for visiting Italy. Others on this message board have done the same. Although most of my travels are in France, I think Italy is the easiest country to do it "on you own". Rome, Tuscany, Venice is really a "no brainer". A women & her husband I helped was considering a Perillo tour, for about $1,000 per day. She's a lawyer in LA. They ended up following the "canned" itinerary I sent her, and she figured she spent just a little more than half what she would have spent on the Perillo tour. She took first class trains and stayed at top hotels. Her favorite was La Saracina in Tuscany, which a fabulous place with only about 5 rooms. You won't stay in any 5 room place out in the beautiful Tuscany countryside on a packaged tour, I believe.

Here is part of her extensive trip report, which she posted on aol:

"As one can easily see, Ray and I stayed in very nice and centrally located hotels; we rode first class Eurostar trains from city to city; dined at good restaurants, and generally did not deprive ourselves of anything which we could have gotten with Perillo, and yet the trip cost us a little more than half of what we would have paid utilizing Perillo Tours. Moreover, and perhaps more important than the money saved, is the fact that we would have never had this freedom of doing what we wanted to do, when we wanted to do it, and what and where we wanted to eat, if we would have gone with an organized tour."

If you want a copy of my "canned" Italy itinerary, e-mail me at [email protected]

Stu Dudley
San Mateo (San Francisco), Ca

ira

Hi suzy,

I have yet to find a tour package that cost less than doing it myself for the same quality of travel and lodgings.

You have plenty of time to plan.

In addition, you have more knowledgeable people here than you will find at any tour or travel agency.

Where do you want to go in Italy - Rome, Florence and Venice?

> We're debating between which way to travel to Italy in September'05.<

From the US, I suggest you fly, unless you have the tie to take the QM2.

jabez

Let me add, planning is part of the fun and excitement of your trip. Use tour groups in specfic areas (Rome,Pompei,etc.),as needed,but give yorself the freedom to design a trip that most appeals to you.

lfm1955

The first time I went to Europe I also choose Italy. I was nervous not knowing what to expect. I ended up taking a 7 day Trafalgar tour to Rome, Venice, and Florence. Once comfortable with the country I rented a car and went off on my own to the Almafi Coast, Naples, and Capri. For us this was the perfect solution

Desert_Sue

I'm 50 and would not think of going with a tour group. Between this forum and the availability of Internet booking, you can create a wonderful trip on your own. I consider this planning to be a big part of my vacation as I rather enjoy constructing my itinerary.

I recall sipping wine at Les Deux Maggots in Paris and watching the tour buses crawl by. Would you rather be on the bus watching me drink my wine or sitting there drinking it with me? We also sat in the Galleria Vittorio Emanuele in Milan drinking wine and watching the tour groups march by with their matching jackets and hats.

I'm going to the Italian Grand Prix in September and researched group packages, which turned out to be very expensive. The only difference I could see was a welcome cocktail party and transportation to the race. I think I booked a much cheaper trip and will have my own cocktail party.

eroz

independant is cheaper, I prefer to travel on my own schedule. My parents will only do tours, like having someone else plan and feel safer that way. It's totally up to you and your adventurous spirit!

frostycp

Hello, I totally agree with desert sue, following a large group is not my idea of a real holiday. Might as well rent a big screen TV and lots of videos, you'll even hear better.
However, Suzyq, while most people think it is cheaper to travel on their own, day excursions are very costly and basically amount to the same "group" problems.
Untours is a great alternative for traveling fun. But what if you could have it all? Price, freedom and guides?
Have fun.
Diane Murphy
www.travelworlddiscovery.com

MFNYC

Don't worry about not speaking the language. Europeans are much better at English than us American's are at their languages. Learn a few common courtesy words or expressions and you will be fine

suze

I don't believe the decision is about money (because you can find a cheap or an expensive tour, or you can travel independent cheap or expensive too), but about your comfort level.

I would never take a tour, because I couldn't stand the structure and having to face a group and schedule each day. BUT I have 2 friends (50's) taking their first trip to Italy this year and they are absolutely going with a tour group, do not want to even consider self-planning.

I have never found lack of language skills (although regretable) to be an insurmountable problem in western European countries.

beanie0300

Italy was my first Europe trip too and I agonized over tour vs on my own. I decided on the latter. I booked air and hotel with Italiatour in each of the 3 cities I was going to, got train tickets at the CIT office in New york city. Then had to rebook it all when 911 happened, but Italiatour was very nice in allowing me to change everything.

Once there I took a couple bus tours (like grayline in rome) which are a good way to get situated and figure out what is where. But in Florence and Venice I was totally on my own and did fine. I dont regret the decision at ALL since I ended up getting sick day 2 in Rome and missing a full day (if I'd been on a tour they'd have left me).

Memorizing a few phrases in Italian was VERY helpful.

If you're the type who is NOT resourceful then by all means do a tour.

writergrrl

I too strongly recommend not doing a package tour. I've tried two and found them to be lacking in every way compared to my independent travel experiences. I think that the tours can be a good option if you have mobility limitations (e.g., you have to walk slowly or use a wheelchair or walker) because they will adjust their pace to you and have staff who can assist you and are familiar with the stairs and ramps at different sites. However, if you're reasonably physically independent, you can do better on your own. It's also usually much cheaper on your own.
A group tour always moves at the pace of slowest, latest, least adventurous person in it. You end up waiting around for those who can't get ready on time instead of seeing and doing things. You eat only at the most bland restaurants so that it pleases everyone. And, there's always lots of time set aside to spend at the giftshops, even if you don't want to do focus your trip around shopping. When you're in a big group, you tend to interact only with the guides and group members and less with the people of the country and thus miss out on part of the experience.
Also, I found that due to the size of groups, you generally get booked into larger hotels on the outskirts of cities, which limits your ability to make use of your open time and to walk to different places.
Worst of all, you miss out on thechance of experiencing the unplanned moments and discoveries that make trips memorable.
Western Europe is such a common tourist destination that it's very easy to navigate without knowing the language, though certainly learning basic phrases is helpful. Also, there are so many good, thorough guidebooks out there that it is easy to plan your own visits and sight-seeing. Many even include suggested routes to take within each city. Something to remember is not to overplan your trip. If you worry too much about "missing something" you will miss out on the fun. As long as you solidify the big stuff (transportation, lodging) and identify a few (2 or 3) things in each city that you know you want to see or do, the rest will fall into place. If you structure you time too minutely, you'll really miss out on a lot and run yourself ragged trying to see "everything."
I've heard good things about Rick Steve's tours (www.ricksteves.com)being in much smaller group sizes (no more than 25 I believe) if you really want to do a group tour. The smaller size minimizes some of the group effects.
Another option is to travel yourself, but set up tours of the sights in individual cities. Context Rome (www.contextrome.com, which also does tours in Florence)does great small group (ususally no more than 6 people) tours of different sights in the city. We loved our experience with them.

nytraveler

A tour is really only a good idea if you're willing to give up all control over your own life. Of course,they provide services - but they also set the rules - where you go, when you go, what you see, what time you get up, when/where you have breakfast and who you will spend your time with.

Unless you are tremendously limited in some way - physical issues dealing with your own luggage, super naive about the world around you (never stayed in a hotel or made reservations before) or especially fearful - I can;t imagine how tour benefits can outweigh the detriments.

For me, the sheer fact that someone can tell me I have to be up at 6:30am while on vacation would make any tour impossible.

jsmith

suzyq53, don't be bullied or made to feel inferior by the "independent travellers" group who are convinced it is the only way.

I made my first trip to the UK in 1948 and have been to Europe numerous times since. My wife lived in Paris, London and NYC while with the Foreign Service.

We have travelled independently and with tours. We have used the airline packages of two and three cities with Northwest, Virgin and BA where the flights, hotels and intercity transfers were part of the package.

There are advantages to all the methods. I consider it to be an advantage when on a tour to be forced to get up and get going (and we are perfectly happy to sit on a bench for 45 minutes at the Arc de Triomphe to watch the insane traffic). I think it's a waste of my time to research train fares and times to get from A to B when I can be reading "The Seven Ages of Paris" or "Europe's Last Summer" so I can better appreciate where I am going.

If you intend to see only one of two cities with a daytrip or two, you can do it nicely independently or using the airline packages. If you want to do France or Italy you may find a tour which gives adequate free time to be a better choice. The ideal IMO is to combine independent time in a city you want to see with a tour that covers an extensive area.

Good luck.

Grasshopper

I'm so glad you said that jsmith. Pardon me while I vent for a moment but some of these responses are so self congratulatory. NOT everyone wants to travel independently. To tell them that they are giving up control of their lives or turning into sheep is just plain not true and implies that the independent traveler is somehow so much better than anyone who doesn't dare go solo. Not true! Why I even spot an adverstisement here!

My parents have traveled far and wide and I can't for the life of me talk them into going somewhere with me that isn't a tour. (and I don't want to go on a tour with them.) To each their own!

OK, my venting is over. I'll go back to being civil.

janeg

"I think that the tours can be a good option if you have mobility limitations (e.g., you have to walk slowly or use a wheelchair or walker)"

"A tour is really only a good idea if you're willing to give up all control over your own life."

"Might as well rent a big screen TV and lots of videos, you'll even hear better."

Jeez, you guys are hardnosed! Thank you, Jsmith, for a bit of evenhandedness.

AllisonK

One thing that I don't think has been said is that when you are on a tour you are travelling with a group of people that you probably don't know. Theoretically this could be a positive or a negative. I love to travel independently (I actually enjoy looking at train schedules...) but I have also taken three different tours with members of my family. On each tour I met wonderful people from various points on the globe who really added something to the experience and memories.