Independent Scotland
Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:08 AM
#21
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Zippo - without an idea of how things like the EU, currency, armed forces etc etc are going to be handled how can anyone in Scotland make an informed choice? If those aren't to be even discussed until after the referendum then all you will get is a knee jerk, sentimental choice. These things need to be discussed now so that people in Scotland can properly decide.
Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:31 AM
#22
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Not about marriage. I was referring to your inability to spell. Unless Scottish education has sadly declined, that would suggest to me that you are not Scottish, but an American of Scottish origin, what I believe is sometimes referred to as a "Mock Jock"
As others have pointed out, Scotland will be independent if the majority vote for it in a referendum.
As others have pointed out, Scotland will be independent if the majority vote for it in a referendum.
Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:34 AM
#23
I don't know, loosened dignity might be a good thing.
Mellisa - you need to answer the question Who is "We", because the polls appear to suggest that it is not the majority of Scots.
I am English, and personally, I would welcome Scottish independence if that is what the people want.
What I disagree with is the disproportional influence the relatively small number of Scots have on the UK as a whole. I have no say in whether Scottish students pay tuition fees, or whether prescription charges apply north of the border, but Scottish MPS can vote to impose such charges on the English while exempting their own people.
Mellisa - you need to answer the question Who is "We", because the polls appear to suggest that it is not the majority of Scots.
I am English, and personally, I would welcome Scottish independence if that is what the people want.
What I disagree with is the disproportional influence the relatively small number of Scots have on the UK as a whole. I have no say in whether Scottish students pay tuition fees, or whether prescription charges apply north of the border, but Scottish MPS can vote to impose such charges on the English while exempting their own people.
Nov 22nd, 2012, 08:40 AM
#24
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"without an idea of how things like the EU, currency, armed forces etc etc are going to be handled how can anyone in Scotland make an informed choice?"
Simple. The Nats' argument is that these decisions should be taken by an independent Scottish parliament.
There's a very simple operating manual for managing the transition from Britain in the highly unlikely case we succeed in getting them to bugger off. It's pretty well written already
1. Agree Scotland should have "independence" (though most Scots seem not to want it, and really independent countries, like Singapore, would fall about in derision at the number of mummy's apron strings the Scot Nats want to keep tied to)
2. Then and only then, elect a parliament. It certainly can't be taken for granted that the pro-independence party will survive the imminent certainty of independence: only Ireland and South Africa, of the democratic ex-possessions, still have their politics dominated by the dead issues of the independence debate. Scotland's parties will almost certainly eventually resemble Sweden's rather than Ireland's: the only real question is how long can the SNP survive in a country where social democracy is in the national DNA (and which, from Keir Hardie and Ramsey McDonald to Brown, Blair and Alastair Campbell, can claim to have dominated social democracy in these islands since its invention)
3. Once elected, the Scottish <s> Labour </s> Progressive Party will debate which bits of pseudo-independence it wants to outsource to Britain, and which bits it wants to outsource to the EU, if the EU will have it - which it won't.
Simple. The Nats' argument is that these decisions should be taken by an independent Scottish parliament.
There's a very simple operating manual for managing the transition from Britain in the highly unlikely case we succeed in getting them to bugger off. It's pretty well written already
1. Agree Scotland should have "independence" (though most Scots seem not to want it, and really independent countries, like Singapore, would fall about in derision at the number of mummy's apron strings the Scot Nats want to keep tied to)
2. Then and only then, elect a parliament. It certainly can't be taken for granted that the pro-independence party will survive the imminent certainty of independence: only Ireland and South Africa, of the democratic ex-possessions, still have their politics dominated by the dead issues of the independence debate. Scotland's parties will almost certainly eventually resemble Sweden's rather than Ireland's: the only real question is how long can the SNP survive in a country where social democracy is in the national DNA (and which, from Keir Hardie and Ramsey McDonald to Brown, Blair and Alastair Campbell, can claim to have dominated social democracy in these islands since its invention)
3. Once elected, the Scottish <s> Labour </s> Progressive Party will debate which bits of pseudo-independence it wants to outsource to Britain, and which bits it wants to outsource to the EU, if the EU will have it - which it won't.
Nov 22nd, 2012, 09:17 AM
#25
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Flanner's final point may be more significant than Wee Eck and his fan club imagine. For one thing, it's yet another set of headaches other EU member states simply do not wish to have dumped on them, whether they come from Scotland or Catalonia: existing treaties don't cover this situation, so would the
rules about new member states apply? Would there have to be a complete new treaty, with every member needing to ratify it? Would an independent Scotland have to adopt the euro as a condition of membership? And then there's the question of votes in the Council of Ministers - on its population size an independent Scotland would be entitled to 7 votes, but there's no way the UK would agree to lose 7 votes and end up with fewer than France, Germany, Italy or Spain: would the rest of the EU agree to a higher total for the UK's successor states?
Blithely assuming these aren't problems because Wee Eck believes he can walk on water is no solution. Neither is blethering nonsense about English dictators.
PS. You do realise there's every reason to say that if Scotland goes, the least it can do is take Northern Ireland with it?
rules about new member states apply? Would there have to be a complete new treaty, with every member needing to ratify it? Would an independent Scotland have to adopt the euro as a condition of membership? And then there's the question of votes in the Council of Ministers - on its population size an independent Scotland would be entitled to 7 votes, but there's no way the UK would agree to lose 7 votes and end up with fewer than France, Germany, Italy or Spain: would the rest of the EU agree to a higher total for the UK's successor states?
Blithely assuming these aren't problems because Wee Eck believes he can walk on water is no solution. Neither is blethering nonsense about English dictators.
PS. You do realise there's every reason to say that if Scotland goes, the least it can do is take Northern Ireland with it?
