courhir

My son, a US citizen, will be studying in Spain for 70 days, then traveling. Does anyone have experience with leaving the Schengen zone and returning to Spain in order to extend the trip to, say, 100 days?

WillTravel

He could go to a non-Schengen country or countries for a period of time, and then return to the Schengen zone, not exceeding 90 days out of 180 in the Schengen zone.

Whether or not he will get caught if he overstays the 90 days, who knows, but why do it?

hopscotch

If he wants to stay legal and have proof of it have him get his passport stamped in a non-Schengen country on arrival there. Since passports are rarely inspected at EU borders anymore he can probably slip back into the Schengen Zone without getting a stamp and then travel as much as he wants without fear.

janisj

leaving the Schengen Zone does not "restart the clock". He is limited to 90 days total - whether consecutive days or w/ a break in the middle

Whether he wants to risk it is up to him - but if anything does go wrong he will have over stayed . . . . .

lincasanova

i only suggest he travel by land from spain once he has overstayed his 90 days.

.. especially the british question fairly deeply when going in and out of at least london airports i have found..

if his flight home leaves spain and goes directly to the USA without passing through any other country, even if he was stopped he would be let go home as he would not be going into another country. ( I asked this precise question to the immigration police in madrid barajas for my students' and clients' benefit)

but if his flight connects through another country.. he MIGHT have a problem.. IF he is caught. stay)

what type of problem?

a fine and re-routing of ticket at his expense.

i am still waiting for someone to post this experience "gone bad".. but no one has until now.

i personally know many visa-less families that have lived in spain for 11 months.. travelled all over, including in and out of england by air.. and never had a problem.. having MORE than overstayed their time.

However, this does not mean that your son's case will be the same, but until this is a priority for the immigration officers.. americans will keep on travelling around and overstaying .

flanneruk

1. The law. After cumulatively racking up 90 days in all Schengen put together, he needs to stay outside Schengen for a further 90 days before he may legally return.

2. The historic practice. For the past few years, there have been few attempts to enforce this rigorously. After 90 days, your son is illegal, but the police till recently have had bigger fish to fry than Australian students on their 91st day

3. Is history bunk? Spain has since June of this year introduced a requirement for all air travellers from non-Schengen countries to pre-file Advance Passenger Information before takeoff. This makes the likelihood of detection (for people flying to Britain or Switzerland and then returning) a great deal higher. If that's what he's planning, be very leery of people who tell you they got away with overstays last year.

Marc_David_Miller

I wouldn't want to encourage a situation which could result in a visa violation on my record, especially at such a young age. I've worked with people who have had problems because of such seemingly minor infractions when they applied for work permits in Spain and France. You don't know in five or ten years (a) what you will be doing (career or lifestyle-wise), and (b) whether particular countries will more strictly enforce their immigration regulations.

alanRow

The danger is that "if things go wrong" and he comes to the attentions of the Spanish authorities - Spanish justice can run very slowly so what would have been a "simple" fine for an offence could become long & drawn out

Also check your son's insurance. He probably isn't covered if he's in a country illegally

GSteed

Why not follow the rules? European bureaucracy has long memories and often painful punishments for regulation transgressors.

Hans

If I understand the question correctly, your son wants to stay for 70 days in Spain, a country part of the Schengen zone, and then go on travelling within Europe for another 30 days, though not necessarily within the Schengen zone. He will then return to Spain and fly home.

As I understand the law, it's absolutely legal to do this as long as he doesn't spend more than 20 of the 30 days travelling within the Schengen zone. If he keeps a flight or maybe train ticket, he could show this leave of the Schengen zone if there were any questions.

My personal feeling: following up the extension of the stay by 10 days by a student from another Western country is about as low on the list of priorities of the authorities as it gets. But on the other hand, consequences of visa violations can be grave. So he could either go outside Schengen (quite a lot of European countries aren't part of that treaty) or maybe get a student visa (after all, he's going to study).

courhir

Thanks for all your comments. His return flight is via London, which apparently could be a problem. The list of Schengen countries seems to be in flux as more countries, like Switzerland, are ratifying the treaty. We certainly don't want to break the law, but the law could be clearer and more tourist-friendly. A Spanish student visa application should be made at least 4 months in advance, and he leaves next week, so that is not an option.
Here's what the Spanish consulate emailed us:
"As a U.S. citizen your son may remain IN SPAIN without a visa, for up to a total of 90 days in a six month period, starting with the first entry. He does not have to leave Europe within 90 days. He would have to leave SPAIN if he has remained IN SPAIN a total of 90 days (whether all at once or in different trips). Probably most of the other European countries have the same or similar norm. You could verify that with the Consulates of the countries that your son plans on visiting while in Spain."
This leads me to think that individual Schengen countries apply the law differently, but they could decide to tighten things up at any time.
Since our country (USA) is unlikely to be lenient for foreign students in the current climate, it could be unrealistic to expect better treatment for us from their governments.

tjenneke

The info you got from the Spanish consulate is completely wrong. Moreover, if your son goes to spain using the 90 day visa-free regime, he is not allowed to work or to study there.This visa free regime is strictly for tourists.I have been dealing with this kind of issues for almost 8 years now, and you should be surprised how many times you get wrong info from embassies or consulates.
I agree, this 90 day rule is stupid, but your country treats Europeans the same way.....

lincasanova

correction:

you can study as a tourist if it is a cultural exchange type program and classes under a certain number of hours a week.
JFYI.

also true in the USA.

stupid rule.. i don't think so.

almost impossible process of getting a visa (for spain).. now that is the clincher.

also, with spain, as you know, if you are well versed in this field as you say you are.. getting the "visa APPROVAL" from the consulate in the USA, is a s-l-o-w process, only to be REPEATED once you are in spain.. standing in lines for HOURS, and then waiting for months to get your residence student card, which normally by that time.. you have left and do not have the documents in hand anyway while travelling.

a PITA, getting worse and worse.

(perhaps this varies by cities in spain.. but i have dealt in valencia and alicante and it is miserable).