Important Warning for Those Travelling to Italy this Summer
May 25th, 2009, 12:55 PM
#61
"As for places where tourism is important, the process in Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia, and Egypt is anything but efficient." - well, I agree about Egypt, but not the other three. I didn't have trouble with any of them, and I got a visa-on-arrival in Indonesia, and have been into Cambodia and Thailand multiple times.
"...perhaps it was because the line was longer for US citizens and they simply wanted to process the longer line so that it would move faster?" - no. I've observed this a number of times. It's clear that citizens have priority. Plus, before I became a naturalized citizen I had to deal with what was then the INS several times, and they are an order of magnitude worse than even the tax people. My US citizen husband couldn't believe how rude and obstructionist they were. I think they see their job as keeping people out.
"...perhaps it was because the line was longer for US citizens and they simply wanted to process the longer line so that it would move faster?" - no. I've observed this a number of times. It's clear that citizens have priority. Plus, before I became a naturalized citizen I had to deal with what was then the INS several times, and they are an order of magnitude worse than even the tax people. My US citizen husband couldn't believe how rude and obstructionist they were. I think they see their job as keeping people out.
May 25th, 2009, 02:31 PM
#63
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<i>well, I agree about Egypt, but not the other three. I didn't have trouble with any of them, and I got a visa-on-arrival in Indonesia, and have been into Cambodia and Thailand multiple times.</i>
Not saying it is an overwhelming hassle, but Thailand features long lines and everybody entering has their picture taken. Considering that the complaints regarding the US are about things like fingerprints, you would expect that a picture intended to be used for identification would provoke a similar negative response (but I guess it isn't as popular to rail against the oppressive Thai?). For Cambodia, I purposefully booked the front of the plane, since it took something like 5 minutes per visa to process us upon arrival, as the application passed between about 5 different people in an obvious jobs program. I can imagine what it is like for those at the end of the line.
Indeed, Egypt was relatively painless. Yeah, you had to have USD for the visa, which is plainly a money-grab, but beyond that? Sure, two people look at your papers, but it is pretty clear they are just earning a paycheck. No worse than Thailand or Cambodia.
<i>In Europe, we sometimes require non-Europeans to go through a separate immigration channel. Because the process takes longer, we ALWAYS put more officials onto processing non-Europeans (at London's airports, often 5-10 times as many).</i>
Hogwash Flanner, and you know it. Strangely, I think you have mellowed a bit, but you decided to pop up here. I have waited for over an hour in the "non-EU line" at Heathrow before. And this was from a flight from Denmark, during non-peak hours. Nobody was reallocated until all EU passports were cleared. And, you know what, I think that is their right. I was annoyed, for sure, but it ain't up to me. I can take criticism from the likes of Holland, where immigration is a joke, but the UK? Please.
As for institutionalized racism, you are kidding right? Everybody with half a brain knows not to get in line behind a person of color at a European airport. This is readily apparent. Not saying, sadly, that this doesn't happen in the US, but any European that claims it doesn't happen in the EU is either naive or a liar.
Not saying it is an overwhelming hassle, but Thailand features long lines and everybody entering has their picture taken. Considering that the complaints regarding the US are about things like fingerprints, you would expect that a picture intended to be used for identification would provoke a similar negative response (but I guess it isn't as popular to rail against the oppressive Thai?). For Cambodia, I purposefully booked the front of the plane, since it took something like 5 minutes per visa to process us upon arrival, as the application passed between about 5 different people in an obvious jobs program. I can imagine what it is like for those at the end of the line.
Indeed, Egypt was relatively painless. Yeah, you had to have USD for the visa, which is plainly a money-grab, but beyond that? Sure, two people look at your papers, but it is pretty clear they are just earning a paycheck. No worse than Thailand or Cambodia.
<i>In Europe, we sometimes require non-Europeans to go through a separate immigration channel. Because the process takes longer, we ALWAYS put more officials onto processing non-Europeans (at London's airports, often 5-10 times as many).</i>
Hogwash Flanner, and you know it. Strangely, I think you have mellowed a bit, but you decided to pop up here. I have waited for over an hour in the "non-EU line" at Heathrow before. And this was from a flight from Denmark, during non-peak hours. Nobody was reallocated until all EU passports were cleared. And, you know what, I think that is their right. I was annoyed, for sure, but it ain't up to me. I can take criticism from the likes of Holland, where immigration is a joke, but the UK? Please.
As for institutionalized racism, you are kidding right? Everybody with half a brain knows not to get in line behind a person of color at a European airport. This is readily apparent. Not saying, sadly, that this doesn't happen in the US, but any European that claims it doesn't happen in the EU is either naive or a liar.
May 25th, 2009, 08:24 PM
#66
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I am shocked and amazed that this thread is still smimmering over really a complete NONISSUE! the sky is falling the sky is falling the sky is falling the sky is falling the sky is falling.......good god!
May 25th, 2009, 10:17 PM
#68
"As for institutionalized racism, you are kidding right? Everybody with half a brain knows not to get in line behind a person of color at a European airport. This is readily apparent. Not saying, sadly, that this doesn't happen in the US, but any European that claims it doesn't happen in the EU is either naive or a liar."
Now that's opening a can of worms.
It's not the skin colour that's the problem. The issue is that many Africans are coming into Europe and bringing lots of legal / criminal problems with them.
Europe didn't use to be "racist" towards blacks.
50 years ago, Switzerland had a problem with the huge wave of Italians that came in.
20 - 5 years ago, Switzerland had a huge problem with the ex-Yugoslavians wave that was coming in.
Nowadays, it's the Africans.
Sadly, many dark-skinned non-Africans are also feeling the effects of this current backlash.
Now back to students in Italy.
Now that's opening a can of worms.
It's not the skin colour that's the problem. The issue is that many Africans are coming into Europe and bringing lots of legal / criminal problems with them.
Europe didn't use to be "racist" towards blacks.
50 years ago, Switzerland had a problem with the huge wave of Italians that came in.
20 - 5 years ago, Switzerland had a huge problem with the ex-Yugoslavians wave that was coming in.
Nowadays, it's the Africans.
Sadly, many dark-skinned non-Africans are also feeling the effects of this current backlash.
Now back to students in Italy.
May 25th, 2009, 11:27 PM
#69
Thanks Amy-Zena. Cutting through all the "right/wrong/why?" chit chat, as one whose stays in Italy were mostly with friends, family (and regrettably not recent enough), I guess the best idea is just to make sure the Italian Immmigration bods stamp your passport on entry.
May 26th, 2009, 01:45 AM
#70
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"It's not the skin colour that's the problem. The issue is that many Africans are coming into Europe and bringing lots of legal / criminal problems with them."
Well guess what, it's the same thing in the USA, not the skin color but people who enter illegally or problems with terrorism. Flanner's comment that it was "institutional racism" in the USA with regards to longer lines for non-citizens is nonsense. I've been to many different countries and had to wait far longer than the citizens and this includes the UK.
"I don't expect them to be nice but in my experience the immigration offials in Western countries or in places with many tourists are normally efficient and professional"
That's because you are an EU citizen, not a non-EU citizen or American so you probably get treated better. I'm not saying european immigration is bad but what you describe in the USA I've found plenty of places elsewhere. I've found plenty of "authoritarian unfriendliness" in other countries including the Toronto airport. Frankly, if the USA upsets you so much, then by all means, go somewhere else.
"When I told him 50% and more of most British MPs' time was taken up with fighting for their non-citizen constituents, he was even more gobsmacked. As the song says "Like to help you son, but you haven't got a vote""
Don't kid yourself FlannerUK, it's the same in your or any country and you're being naive to think that it's not. Anyway, a politician should put their own citzens first over foreigners, that's common sense.
Well guess what, it's the same thing in the USA, not the skin color but people who enter illegally or problems with terrorism. Flanner's comment that it was "institutional racism" in the USA with regards to longer lines for non-citizens is nonsense. I've been to many different countries and had to wait far longer than the citizens and this includes the UK.
"I don't expect them to be nice but in my experience the immigration offials in Western countries or in places with many tourists are normally efficient and professional"
That's because you are an EU citizen, not a non-EU citizen or American so you probably get treated better. I'm not saying european immigration is bad but what you describe in the USA I've found plenty of places elsewhere. I've found plenty of "authoritarian unfriendliness" in other countries including the Toronto airport. Frankly, if the USA upsets you so much, then by all means, go somewhere else.
"When I told him 50% and more of most British MPs' time was taken up with fighting for their non-citizen constituents, he was even more gobsmacked. As the song says "Like to help you son, but you haven't got a vote""
Don't kid yourself FlannerUK, it's the same in your or any country and you're being naive to think that it's not. Anyway, a politician should put their own citzens first over foreigners, that's common sense.
May 26th, 2009, 01:46 AM
#71
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"Sadly, many dark-skinned non-Africans are also feeling the effects of this current backlash"
schuler - so it's ok for the innocent Africans (the majority of whom are perfectly legit) to get extra aggro?
schuler - so it's ok for the innocent Africans (the majority of whom are perfectly legit) to get extra aggro?
May 26th, 2009, 01:49 AM
#72
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PS-I'll add that the worst in my experience is the Toronto airport. Very authoritarian, bark at you and they always grill me about working, which is of course their right. However, once I leave immigration, the Canadian people are very nice and I always enjoy my stays there. I judge by the experience of actually being in a country, and the sum total of my time there, not the time at immigration at the airport. If I did judge by that, I'd never go anywhere.
