Imact of current middle east situation
Aug 8th, 2006, 06:50 AM
#22
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Easyjet just announced their new route London Luton to Istanbul....hmmm, must go there next. And Thingorjus, I must toddle over to the other board to read your Israel TR, certainly an instant classic.
Aug 8th, 2006, 07:05 AM
#23
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Nancy
If you look at it from a pure geography and political perspective, I wouldn't worry. From a geography point of view, it's far enough from Lebanon and Israel that you don't have to worry. It borders on Syria in the south though I think that if Syria does join in the war, its unlikely that it would hit the Northern part (close to Turkey) and will most likely be in the south of Syria (close to Israel). From a political pt of view, I don't see Turkey joining the war either because they're Europeean enough to not fight against Israel and they're middle-eastern enough not to fight against places like Syria.
I would say, go, have fun! I wouldn't shout any pro-israeli slogans while walking down the street though.
If you look at it from a pure geography and political perspective, I wouldn't worry. From a geography point of view, it's far enough from Lebanon and Israel that you don't have to worry. It borders on Syria in the south though I think that if Syria does join in the war, its unlikely that it would hit the Northern part (close to Turkey) and will most likely be in the south of Syria (close to Israel). From a political pt of view, I don't see Turkey joining the war either because they're Europeean enough to not fight against Israel and they're middle-eastern enough not to fight against places like Syria.
I would say, go, have fun! I wouldn't shout any pro-israeli slogans while walking down the street though.
Aug 8th, 2006, 09:53 AM
#24
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Years ago before our first trip to Israel, I asked my 82 year old cousin, a very bright lady, who was also a travel agent and had traveled to Israel many many times, when was the best time to go.
She said, 'there is no best time. If you waited for the 'best time', you would never go.'
Don't change your plans, go now, you don't know what the future holds for you or for Turkey.
In 1986 there were all sorts of problems in France and my mother and daughter begged me not to go. I knew that if I cancelled out of fear, that that fear would always stay with me. I went, had a fabulous and safe trip.
During our trip Chernobyl and bombing Libya were major events, but not for us.
Yes, as another poster stated, it is Lebanon that is being destroyed, right along with Israel - but that's a whole other thread!
Nina
She said, 'there is no best time. If you waited for the 'best time', you would never go.'
Don't change your plans, go now, you don't know what the future holds for you or for Turkey.
In 1986 there were all sorts of problems in France and my mother and daughter begged me not to go. I knew that if I cancelled out of fear, that that fear would always stay with me. I went, had a fabulous and safe trip.
During our trip Chernobyl and bombing Libya were major events, but not for us.
Yes, as another poster stated, it is Lebanon that is being destroyed, right along with Israel - but that's a whole other thread!
Nina
Aug 8th, 2006, 05:01 PM
#25
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Imitation of Christ is NOT THINGORJUS. He is just that--an imitation. Thingorjus, a.k.a John G., has not posted on Fodor's for over two months, last as Balenciaga. He has no wish to return to Fodor's because, as he states, "all the best posters are gone." (i.e. cigalchanta, st. cirq, elaine, marilyn, nyfoodsnob, etc.)
Thingorjus is posting on another travel forum. He will never post his Iraeli trip report on Fodor's. In fact, he would like to have all of his old posts removed; that is how much he LOATHES Fodors.com.
Christine
Thingorjus is posting on another travel forum. He will never post his Iraeli trip report on Fodor's. In fact, he would like to have all of his old posts removed; that is how much he LOATHES Fodors.com.
Christine
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:50 PM
#26
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Handmaiden - because we have chosen to continue to post on Fodor's, does that make us loosers?
I'm registered on ezBoard (probably the 'another travel forum" that you are referring to. I've seen quite a few former and current Fodorites posting there.
Some post the same trip reports, etc. on both forums.
If John G, etal, hates Fodor's so much why even have you mention it -
He should just fade into the night - giggling all the way.
I momentarily felt sad because some of the people who left Fodor's, were given so much sympathy and support for various family problems and health issues, all personnal problems, not travel related. They all had a lot to offer, but there are other posters here, with equal expertise. It will take a while, but they will be replaced and forgotten. That is, unless they tire of the other travel forum and return here.
Your post made it sound as if they were an elite clique, glad to get away from _us_ not just Fodor's. They left by choice (or at least most of them did), and some continue to post on both forums, why jump on us and why keep the name the other travel forum a secret - isn't everyone welcome on ezBoard????
Why are you still reading and responding to Fodors' posts - why haven't you moved on yet?
Nina
I'm registered on ezBoard (probably the 'another travel forum" that you are referring to. I've seen quite a few former and current Fodorites posting there.
Some post the same trip reports, etc. on both forums.
If John G, etal, hates Fodor's so much why even have you mention it -
He should just fade into the night - giggling all the way.
I momentarily felt sad because some of the people who left Fodor's, were given so much sympathy and support for various family problems and health issues, all personnal problems, not travel related. They all had a lot to offer, but there are other posters here, with equal expertise. It will take a while, but they will be replaced and forgotten. That is, unless they tire of the other travel forum and return here.
Your post made it sound as if they were an elite clique, glad to get away from _us_ not just Fodor's. They left by choice (or at least most of them did), and some continue to post on both forums, why jump on us and why keep the name the other travel forum a secret - isn't everyone welcome on ezBoard????
Why are you still reading and responding to Fodors' posts - why haven't you moved on yet?
Nina
Aug 9th, 2006, 03:12 AM
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I had made plans to visit Beirut, southern Lebanon, Syria and Jordan in the spring of 2007. Now Beirut is devastated along with large swaths of south lebanon. I've changed my plans and even intend to make it to Beirut unless I'm physically disallowed entry.
Go where you want to go while it still exists.
Go where you want to go while it still exists.
Aug 9th, 2006, 05:16 AM
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Nina - there's no secret about the ez board. It's just that if it gets linked to here then the thread tends to disappear, for understandable reasons.
Plenty of people (inc me, I have no idea about thingorjous)use this forum, the ez board forum, gum tree, thorn tree, virtual tourist etc.
There was some initial rancour at the ez board, but I don't think that's so true anymore. At least I hope not. It's not a competition, just different strokes for different folks.
Plenty of people (inc me, I have no idea about thingorjous)use this forum, the ez board forum, gum tree, thorn tree, virtual tourist etc.
There was some initial rancour at the ez board, but I don't think that's so true anymore. At least I hope not. It's not a competition, just different strokes for different folks.
Aug 9th, 2006, 06:32 AM
#32
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No way travelerstogo could compete, or would want to compete, with Fodors or Frommers or any of the biggies backed by publishers. It's another pleasant travel community like virtualtourist or slowtrav but smaller.
People who travel evaluate risks all the time, some small risks like losing luggage or being bumped from a flight, some larger risks like local unrest or crime. If you think about the risks we run every day just getting out of bed and driving to work, the statistics in most cases aren't any worse abroad. That said, I wouldn't be personally booking a trip to either Beirut or Haifa right now; safety is one factor but, only speaking personally, visiting cities under siege seems frivolous to me.
People who travel evaluate risks all the time, some small risks like losing luggage or being bumped from a flight, some larger risks like local unrest or crime. If you think about the risks we run every day just getting out of bed and driving to work, the statistics in most cases aren't any worse abroad. That said, I wouldn't be personally booking a trip to either Beirut or Haifa right now; safety is one factor but, only speaking personally, visiting cities under siege seems frivolous to me.
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:12 AM
#33
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I am reading this thread because I have a trip planned for next year. I have not been on this board in several years (different name)but noticed the absence of elaine and st. cirq who were very valuable resources for my previous trip to Europe. What happened to them?
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:37 AM
#34
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Audere est facere ... I'm sorry about my faux pas. I stand corrected. What set me off was Handmaiden's unprompted OT venomous reply.
I have enjoyed Christine's informative posts in the past, and therefore was very surprised by her tone and content.
Yes, there are many other travel sites and we are all free to use them, as many as we want or don't want. There can never be too many sources for information, travel or otherwise.
Nina
I have enjoyed Christine's informative posts in the past, and therefore was very surprised by her tone and content.
Yes, there are many other travel sites and we are all free to use them, as many as we want or don't want. There can never be too many sources for information, travel or otherwise.
Nina
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:38 AM
#35
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uh, Traveler, that's real smart-why don't you tack on Iraq as well? After all, they have an American embassy and a government who works closely with the American govt. in all aspects of running the country-you DO know don't you, that the US Embassy is being staffed by only essential personnel, all others being sent home? It might behoove you to at least read the Travel Warning on Lebanon before embarking on your little Holiday to Hell.
and Nancy-on a much saner note...I DO hope you've read the consular information sheets carefully on Turkey-there have been terrorist attacks where European tourists have been killed in Turkey as recently as a bit over a month ago, this per the fState Dept. website:
SAFETY AND SECURITY: Terrorist bombings -- some with significant numbers of casualties -- over the past four years have struck religious, government, government-owned, political, tourist and business targets in a variety of locations in Turkey. The possibility of terrorist attacks, both transnational and indigenous, remains high.
Indigenous terrorist groups continue to target Turkish as well as U.S. and Western interests. In June 2004, the indigenous terrorist group, PKK/KADEK/Kongra-Gel, announced an end to their “unilateral ceasefire” and resumed violent activities. Two of the most significant incidents occurred in July 2005 in the town of Kusadasi, where bombs killed an Irish tourist and a British tourist. In the summer of 2005, incidents occurred in the popular coastal tourist destinations of Cesme, Bodrum, Antalya, and Mersin. Bombings have also taken place in Istanbul, injuring a Dutch citizen and several Turkish citizens. A Kurdish group ostensibly aligned with PKK terrorists, claimed responsibility for a number of bombings in tourist areas in the Aegean and Mediterranean coastal resort areas and in Istanbul. This group has also warned tourists not to visit the country.
Consistent with their threats, in June 2006 this group claimed responsibility for a restaurant explosion that killed three European tourists in Manavgat, a town in Antalya Province. Further attacks by this group could take place in Turkey without warning.
In late March and early April 2006, there was a wave of unrest in the southeast region of Turkey, where the PKK/KADEK/Kongra Gel has traditionally concentrated its activities. Violent clashes involving protestors and Turkish security forces occurred in the cities of Diyarbakir, Batman, Sirnak, and Sanliurfa, resulting in several deaths, many injuries, and extensive property damage. Please see the section on Southeast Turkey for additional information.
In Istanbul in 2005 and in 2006, there have been a variety of incidents, including small-scale bombings and violent demonstrations. Most, but not all, of these incidents have occurred in neighborhoods of the city not generally frequented by tourists. PKK/KADEK/Kongra-Gel supporters on a number of occasions in 2005 and 2006 have set public buses on fire after ordering passengers to disembark. On April 3, 2006, an attack of this type resulted in three deaths and at least one severe wounding. Thus far, all attacks on buses have taken place in areas of Istanbul distant from tourist destinations.
In November 2003 al-Qaida affiliated terrorists were responsible for four large suicide bombings in Istanbul that targeted Western interests. The British Consulate, HSBC Bank, and two synagogues were targeted by massive suicide truck bombs that killed dozens of people and wounded hundreds. These incidents represent a significant change from prior attacks in Turkey and show an increasing willingness on the part of the terrorists to attack Western targets.
In August 2005 Turkish police discovered what appears to have been a planned terrorist attack by a transnational group targeting maritime interests in Turkey. As indicated in the State Department’s Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, it is possible that transnational terrorist attacks could occur without warning.
Americans should exercise caution and good judgment, keep a low profile, and remain vigilant with regard to their personal security. Terrorists do not distinguish between official and civilian targets. As security is increased at official U.S. facilities, terrorists will seek softer targets. These may include facilities where Americans and Westerners are known to live, congregate, shop, or visit, especially hotels, clubs, restaurants, shopping centers, housing compounds, transportation systems, places of worship, schools, or outdoor recreation events or resorts and beaches.
Obviously, you have to decide your own personal comfort level when it comes to travel in areas that have had sustained terrorist activity, such as Turkey. It means NOTHING, however, when people come onto this board and give the following mantra:
Oh I was just in Istanbul, or Kusadasi in ----of last year, and I FELT PERFECTLY SAFE THERE.
Well of COURSE they felt safe-nothing happened to them! Don't you think that all the tourists that have been killed or injuried in these attacks in the cafes or markets or whereever they were ALSO felt safe just prior to the attack???
My point being is that it is a meaningless statement: "I felt perfectly safe when I was there"-because that's the whole point-a terrorist attack targeting tourist populations is SUPPOSED to occur without warning, in a place where it is LEAST expected-hotel zones, cafes, etc. So don't get lulled into thinking that simply because a number of persons state they "felt" safe that it has any real correspondence to the reality of the situation in a particular city or country-it does not-no correlation whatsoever.
and Nancy-on a much saner note...I DO hope you've read the consular information sheets carefully on Turkey-there have been terrorist attacks where European tourists have been killed in Turkey as recently as a bit over a month ago, this per the fState Dept. website:
SAFETY AND SECURITY: Terrorist bombings -- some with significant numbers of casualties -- over the past four years have struck religious, government, government-owned, political, tourist and business targets in a variety of locations in Turkey. The possibility of terrorist attacks, both transnational and indigenous, remains high.
Indigenous terrorist groups continue to target Turkish as well as U.S. and Western interests. In June 2004, the indigenous terrorist group, PKK/KADEK/Kongra-Gel, announced an end to their “unilateral ceasefire” and resumed violent activities. Two of the most significant incidents occurred in July 2005 in the town of Kusadasi, where bombs killed an Irish tourist and a British tourist. In the summer of 2005, incidents occurred in the popular coastal tourist destinations of Cesme, Bodrum, Antalya, and Mersin. Bombings have also taken place in Istanbul, injuring a Dutch citizen and several Turkish citizens. A Kurdish group ostensibly aligned with PKK terrorists, claimed responsibility for a number of bombings in tourist areas in the Aegean and Mediterranean coastal resort areas and in Istanbul. This group has also warned tourists not to visit the country.
Consistent with their threats, in June 2006 this group claimed responsibility for a restaurant explosion that killed three European tourists in Manavgat, a town in Antalya Province. Further attacks by this group could take place in Turkey without warning.
In late March and early April 2006, there was a wave of unrest in the southeast region of Turkey, where the PKK/KADEK/Kongra Gel has traditionally concentrated its activities. Violent clashes involving protestors and Turkish security forces occurred in the cities of Diyarbakir, Batman, Sirnak, and Sanliurfa, resulting in several deaths, many injuries, and extensive property damage. Please see the section on Southeast Turkey for additional information.
In Istanbul in 2005 and in 2006, there have been a variety of incidents, including small-scale bombings and violent demonstrations. Most, but not all, of these incidents have occurred in neighborhoods of the city not generally frequented by tourists. PKK/KADEK/Kongra-Gel supporters on a number of occasions in 2005 and 2006 have set public buses on fire after ordering passengers to disembark. On April 3, 2006, an attack of this type resulted in three deaths and at least one severe wounding. Thus far, all attacks on buses have taken place in areas of Istanbul distant from tourist destinations.
In November 2003 al-Qaida affiliated terrorists were responsible for four large suicide bombings in Istanbul that targeted Western interests. The British Consulate, HSBC Bank, and two synagogues were targeted by massive suicide truck bombs that killed dozens of people and wounded hundreds. These incidents represent a significant change from prior attacks in Turkey and show an increasing willingness on the part of the terrorists to attack Western targets.
In August 2005 Turkish police discovered what appears to have been a planned terrorist attack by a transnational group targeting maritime interests in Turkey. As indicated in the State Department’s Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, it is possible that transnational terrorist attacks could occur without warning.
Americans should exercise caution and good judgment, keep a low profile, and remain vigilant with regard to their personal security. Terrorists do not distinguish between official and civilian targets. As security is increased at official U.S. facilities, terrorists will seek softer targets. These may include facilities where Americans and Westerners are known to live, congregate, shop, or visit, especially hotels, clubs, restaurants, shopping centers, housing compounds, transportation systems, places of worship, schools, or outdoor recreation events or resorts and beaches.
Obviously, you have to decide your own personal comfort level when it comes to travel in areas that have had sustained terrorist activity, such as Turkey. It means NOTHING, however, when people come onto this board and give the following mantra:
Oh I was just in Istanbul, or Kusadasi in ----of last year, and I FELT PERFECTLY SAFE THERE.
Well of COURSE they felt safe-nothing happened to them! Don't you think that all the tourists that have been killed or injuried in these attacks in the cafes or markets or whereever they were ALSO felt safe just prior to the attack???
My point being is that it is a meaningless statement: "I felt perfectly safe when I was there"-because that's the whole point-a terrorist attack targeting tourist populations is SUPPOSED to occur without warning, in a place where it is LEAST expected-hotel zones, cafes, etc. So don't get lulled into thinking that simply because a number of persons state they "felt" safe that it has any real correspondence to the reality of the situation in a particular city or country-it does not-no correlation whatsoever.
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:50 AM
#36
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Venomous? Are you kidding?
The reason I replied to this thread is because two posters above, not to mention other posters on other threads, have inferred that IOC is Thingorjus. IT IS NOT TRUE!
I have no idea what travel board Thingorjus is posting on. Would you like me to ask him for you?
Christine
The reason I replied to this thread is because two posters above, not to mention other posters on other threads, have inferred that IOC is Thingorjus. IT IS NOT TRUE!
I have no idea what travel board Thingorjus is posting on. Would you like me to ask him for you?
Christine
Aug 9th, 2006, 09:16 AM
#37
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nancy_m by all means take your trip. I passed up an opportunity to do something I really wanted to do and kicked myself for years! Finally realized that long-awaited dream last year, almost 30 years later.
As far as concern about earthquakes, I live in California (awaiting the "big one"
and life goes on!
I didn't find Handmaiden's post offensive. Glad to hear that TG is not IOC. Loved TG's posts and not so fond of IOC's.
St. Cirque is still here, saw a post today. Elaine was banned, along with so many other knowledgeable people!
As far as concern about earthquakes, I live in California (awaiting the "big one"
and life goes on!I didn't find Handmaiden's post offensive. Glad to hear that TG is not IOC. Loved TG's posts and not so fond of IOC's.
St. Cirque is still here, saw a post today. Elaine was banned, along with so many other knowledgeable people!
Aug 9th, 2006, 09:28 AM
#38
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Girlspy, I'm not an American. Also, I said that unless I can't get there which means that if the situation is the way it is today then I couldn't really. The only way i can get there is if they re-open the airport etc. which tells me that the current conflict is either over or on hold.
Aug 9th, 2006, 09:29 AM
#39
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Also, nancy was asking about the current conflict which people don't really think will affect Turkey. If you're worried about terrorist threats then that's a whole other can of worms but unrelated to the current conflict.
