ohmygod

TRACI<BR>I sure as hell hope your "B+" French is better than you horrible spelling skills in the English language. "Torist"??????? Get a grip girlie, those Parisians are going to chew you up and spit you out like mush.

true

Hey, Wayne!<BR><BR>There are other places on the Internet for Nazi rants. (Or are you really John Ashcroft?)

David

I have been to Paris 3 times, and got engaged there on my last trip. I think how much you enjoy Paris has a lot to do with the company you keep.<BR><BR>Culturally and architecturally it is a magnificent city. My favorite thing to do in Paris is just walk around and take in the sights. I cannot even remember the type of service we received - it wasn't so rude that it bothered us (it's Paris, so the bar naturally gets lowered before you go anyway) but nothing so extraordinary so as to ruin any our trips. As one poster mentioned - we too have gotten equally as bad, rude, dispassionate service here in the U.S. ... Call it tourist resentment - the city benefits economically from them, but it pisses off all the residents because tourists take up their seats at tables in restaurants and seats on the Metro, available cabs, etc. Happens everywhere.<BR><BR>And Parisians do suck for the most part, as the rest of France will gladly let you know. <BR><BR>The ills you speak of are indicative of many large cities. One time riding the Metro somebody tossed their cookies in the middle of the car. Talk about a bad smell ... we got off that particular car at the next station and switched to a different car. No big deal. <BR><BR>We go to Paris to walk the Champs Elysees at night, to hike up Montmarte, to light a candle at Notre Dame, to drink a coffee and walk along the Seine, and to share a bottle of wine on a street corner cafe. Go to Paris and enjoy it for the things you cannot do/have at home. <BR><BR>If you want passionate service go to a spa!<BR>

Gauloises

They damn well should give us good service...tourism is a HUGE industry in Paris. Without American tourists, thousands of Parisians would lose their jobs. <BR>Europeans get respect and service in the US. The Parisians' problem is that they look at us as money, not as people. <BR>Why is it that in other major cities in Europe, the people seem to be MUCH friendlier and personable, and give better service?...i.e. Munich, Berlin, and Amsterdam.<BR>I took my first and last trip to Paris a year ago.

Rita

David<BR><BR>It's interesting that just because it's Paris, the "bar naturally gets lowered before you go" as far as expectations for good service go. Why is that? Says something to me about what many people experience in Paris. And you wonder why I'm apprehensive about how my family will enjoy our visit there!

Capo

Re: "Lesson for all of us, as so many much wiser posters have said, is to travel with planning but not with expectation."<BR><BR>I like that, Amy. Very wise indeed. When reality doesn't meet one's expectations -- especially inflated ones -- then major disappointment inevitably ensues.

Jennifer

Hi Margie,<BR><BR>As a frequent traveler to Paris, I'm curious as to what your expectations were. Is it possible that you expected Paris to be something that it isn't? Did you read up on the cultural differences? Often, there are misunderstandings because what is considered polite in one country may be considered rude in another. And I think that is a major reason for disappointment in other countries!<BR><BR>I was just in Paris a few weeks ago and am surprised that you thought the metro stunk. <BR><BR>Even though I'm one of those who puts Paris on a pedestal, I also realize that it isn't perfect. However, attitude goes a long way from creating mountains out of molehills. <BR><BR>Since you say that you've been waiting for this trip all your life, I take it you are a novice traveler. Sometimes it takes a few trips to really get into the motions of other countries!<BR><BR>It's a shame that you felt you had a negative experience. I hope your next trip is better!<BR><BR>Jennifer

BabyJane

Out of all the cities I've visited in Europe the inhabitants of Paris seem to have the least 'empathy', the least human warmth. Most of them seem very po-faced. After a meal in the Marais was ruined because of a particularly miserable and decidedly hostile waitress, my friend called out to her as we were leaving... "t'as besoin d'une plume entre les cuisses." Not quite sure what that meant but we sure had to make a run for it!!

ParisFan

Gauloises<BR><BR>What a load of rubbish!!<BR>Americans have been shying away from Europe since the problems in the middle east (only the Americans... check your atlas and see where the middle east is in comparison to France!). I haven't seen the mass loss of jobs you envisage. Paris does not revolve around the American tourist despite the views of you and some on this web site! Your pretentious attitude really winds me up, as I sure it winds up many Parisians, perhaps that is why sometimes you get poor service!

mark

When I was in Rome last May - everywhere I went there were tourists - a relentless stream of them. It's the same in Paris. Here in NYC the hordes of tourists seem to stay mainly in midtown, times square and wall street. In my neighborhod we get a sprinkling of tourists but not anything like I saw in Rome and Paris. It must be really difficult and tiresome having to deal with visitors who come with these preconcived ideas that include fulfilling their european fantisies.

Jennifer

Mark,<BR><BR>That's an excellent point. I live in a completely non-touristy area. If I had to constantly deal with people assuming that I spoke their language and people not knowing what constitutes a tip and all other kinds of cultural differences, I imagine my patience would wear fairly thin.<BR><BR>Can you imagine a person coming up to you and speaking Chinese (for instance) and then becoming impatient when you don't seem to understand?! Or perhaps someone from another country where tipping is not customary, orders an expensive meal and leaves approximately 2-3% as a tip?! I have a feeling that many Americans would have an awfully lot less patience than people in European areas.<BR><BR>Some people can find positive experiences in the most mundane areas of the world, and others can find negative experiences in the most beautiful areas of the world. One's outlook on life has a great deal to do with it, I think.<BR><BR>When traveling, a bit of patience and respect for people who live in the area will go a long way!<BR><BR>Jennifer

Zacharia

It was the post that wouldn’t die…<BR><BR>Having read through this when it was posted I came upon it again today (I have no real life). I think I’m starting to discern a pattern. The original post is concise, well written, and well within the perimeters of what this site is for.<BR><BR>Generally speaking (always dangerous) it appears that the Pro-Paris crowd doesn’t read very well. In their attempts to defend their favorite city they are, perhaps deliberately, misunderstanding what Margie has written in surprisingly clear English. One declares the whole message is stupid, another says that Margie is obviously a “novice” traveler, though she mentions having traveled in other cities generally and London in particular. Assuming she’s an American (or Canadian) I don’t know how the conclusion can be drawn that she’s inexperienced. Unless there is now another Fodor’s elitist clan that States that one has to have visited certain cities and certain number of times to be considered a REAL traveler.<BR><BR>Still another claims all is “rubbish” and implies that tourism, particularly American tourism, plays only a small part in the grand scheme of Paris. (As an economist who specializes in European/American trends, let me assure you that Paris is among several cities in Europe who’s economies are based HUGELY on tourism. Even when travel among Americans is down it is still a mighty force.)<BR><BR>Paris? I’m fond of the place myself, but yes, the Metro very often stinks and stinks profoundly. It has to do the proximity of vents in the sewer lines which is, locally at least, common knowledge. Another reason is that beggars and the like use it as a toilet and, particularly in certain stations, no one is in a hurry to clean it up. On my very first trip there I sat in a metal chair waiting for the train. The chair seemed awfully cold. When I stood up my companion mentioned that my whole backside was wet. I had been sitting in urine, and not my own.<BR><BR>There is no city on earth that draws such a fanatic following as Paris. I couldn’t guess as to why so I won’t attempt to, but I am starting to agree with the concept that Paris cannot be intelligently discussed on this, or any other forum, because devotees have such huge blind spots about the reality of the place.<BR>

Jennifer

Hi Zach,<BR><BR>I think her post was clear, but what wasn't clear is her expectations. When saying, "I've waited all my life for this trip," I can imagine that she put forth some extremely high expectations.<BR><BR>When she says, "It was like the waiters, the hotel staff, even the street vendors were terminally bored," does she realize that what is considered polite in one country may not be in another? In the US, it is considered polite to smile at people. Many Parisians don't, not because they aren't polite, but that isn't what their culture dictates! In fact, in some countries, a person may be mistaken for a retarded person if he smiles often. In no way do I mean to insult anyone, but it's just a huge cultural difference!<BR><BR>It really seems to me that what makes a disappointing trip more often than not is unmet expectations because the person didn't understand the unique culture of a different country.<BR><BR>I find it difficult to perceive that an entire two-week vacation was destroyed in Paris. Sure, there are rude people and unpleasant circumstances in ANY country. <BR><BR>If Terry Anderson can spend SEVEN year imprisoned and not be bitter, it seems to me that there might just be a "bit" of enjoyment to be found in Paris.....<BR> <BR>Just a thought,<BR><BR>Jennifer<BR> <BR><BR> <BR><BR><BR>

carol

Sometimes I feel like I visited Paris in a time warp. I have been there twice and have only encountered one rude waiter. They are formal and standoffish compared to "Hi, y'all, I'm Jeffry, and I will be your waiter today, and by the way, I will try to upsell you every time you open your mouth."<BR><BR>I also did not find it dirty except for the dog poop. All over Europe there is lots of dog poop. We got used to watching for it and warning each other of it. Our warning euphmism was "look out for the moss!"<BR><BR>Everywhere in the world there are subways that occassionally smell like pee.<BR><BR>You go to a big city, and it is going to be more noisy, busy, dangerous, etc. than smaller places. You take that as the down side of seeing the beauty, like Notre Dame, or eating wonderfully prepared food. But if you go everywhere on a bus and order Steak-Frites, and expect to be treated like back home, you get what you asked for.

Jennifer

Carol,<BR><BR>I MUCH prefer the service of Parisian waiters to that of what is usually found in the USA. I love to enjoy a leisurely meal, not being asked every five minutes, "Are you still 'working' on that salad?" Personally, I'd like to think of enjoying a meal, not "working" on it! The unrushed attitude is absolutely a welcome change for me. Some consider it "poor" service. I consider it excellent privacy! If I need something, I will get the waiter's attention. Otherwise, it's so nice to be left in peace to enjoy the meal, my companion(s), and the surroundings without constantly being hassled by the waiter. <BR><BR>I did temporarily solve the problem at one meal in the US, though. The restaurant was about half-full, yet the waitress almost seemed to be hanging on our table, constantly asking if I'm still "working" on my plate. I replied, "I'd like to enjoy the rest of my meal, but do you need this table for someone else?"<BR><BR>She got the hint. ;-)<BR><BR>Jennifer

ParisFan

Zacharia<BR><BR>Please try reading posts carefully yourself! I specifically mentioned "American" tourist, not tourist in general. The implication from Gauloises being that "American" tourists support the economy of Paris.<BR><BR>You said " Even when travel among Americans is down it is still a mighty force", exactly could not agree with you more!

Natalie

Margie I can totally understand how you feel. My reaction to Paris was not very favorable. No,not everyone is ugly but I have never been to such a place where pervasive rudeness runs rampant. You do everything to prepare for a trip, read,read, study the language etc..but nothing can ever prepare you for Paris. Yep you have to experience it to see what it is all about. I find it funny that so many people on Fodors stick up for such behavior (but then again they must have no lives anyway). Funny, how we get Parisians traveling to the states and most Americans will go out of their way to help and be friendly. I see tons of Europeans in my city and I certainly don't get short or rude with them. Margie try visiting outside Paris and you will be amazed at how it changes.

Jennifer

&gt;&gt;I find it funny that so many people on Fodors stick up for such behavior (but then again they must have no lives anyway). <BR><BR>Natalie, another possibility is that some of us don't concentrate on the negative!<BR><BR>Life is what you make it, no matter what is dished out to you.<BR><BR>Jennifer

StCirq

&lt;&lt; find it funny that so many people on Fodors stick up for such behavior (but then again they must have no lives anyway).&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Personally, Natalie, I've always thought one of the rudest behaviors in any culture was the American habit of talking about how others "don't have a life," or accusing them of the "need to get a life." Besides being an incredibly shallow comment, it is meant to be offensive in the broadest sense possible. It's far more offensive to me than a Parisian waiter who doesn't fawn over me or try to speak something other than his native language.<BR>

xx

Margie, you are right. Paris ain't nothing but a hell hole. Stay home. Never travel beyond your own front yard!!! Then you can never bitch again.