BillT

As a first trip to Europe I always advise against Italy- too many issues for a first timer. Security (Pickpockets, gypsies), Water (don't drink), Cleanliness (hotels can be a challenge sometimes). Stick to the safe countries (Germany, France, Austria, Switzerland).

Peter_S_Aus

I think that BillT has his tongue firmly in his cheek when he suggests that the OP should not visit Italy.

Or he is woefully misinformed.

StCirq

I agree, and I think spcfa is out his mind when he says that Italy can't be visited independently. Crock.

Aramis

Bill doesn't have his tongue in his cheek - it looks like his foot in his mouth.

He is a student of the "Do it my way or you will have an awful time" school of giving advice.

Personally, I think once you wade through all the thieves, gypsies, and filth, Italy is rather stunning. (Tongue, meet Cheek)

BillT

I'm just pointing out that there are issues with Italy that frankly you just don't hear about in other countries and for first timers it might be best to go to those countries that don't seem to suffer from these problems. On our first trip to Italy (and this was not our first trip to Europe) we were accosted by gypsies. My friends at work made their first trip to Italy and they were robbed by gypsies. Ok Ok this does not happen to everyone all the time- of course, but these things do tend to pop up in Italy. Don't shoot the messenger- I'm passing along what I condsider to be something to consider as a first timer to Europe. You can drink the water in Switzerland - beware in Italy. Hotels are always clean and safe in Austria- you need to be careful in Italy.
Am I saying not to go to Italy ever- of course not! But one has to be prepared for these realities and I just think that for newbees to Europe its maybe prudent to stick to countries where these issues do not present themselves so much.

ira

>I would never recommend Italy for independent travel unless the person is a very experienced European traveler,....,

Gee, I think that Italy, especially Venice --> Florence --> Rome is a cinch for DIY.
..................................
>The replies to the query are so so one dimensional.....<

Yup. If you have only one chance to see Europe, get out into the fringe areas where tourists never go. Spend 1/2 day on a slow train through industrial parks to see a particularly interesting 12th C ruin.
...................................

Don't drink the water in Italy?

Bosh.

tejana

Don't drink the water in Italy? I suppose all of the public water taps in Rome are just for show?

tinabina

Don't drink the water? Huh...we loved the water flowing freely from the fountains and saved 20 euro in bottled water.
Our guide "says" I-ah-onalee-drinka-disa watera-mya-whola-lifeah-anda-looka-meah-steela-hereah...no?"

Just for the record...we encountered no gypsies, no pick pockets, no filth...just lovely people and a beautiful country.

Tina

StCirq

<<I'm just pointing out that there are issues with Italy that frankly you just don't hear about in other countries and for first timers it might be best to go to those countries that don't seem to suffer from these problems.>>

So going to other countries in Europe as a first-time visitor somehow prepares you for the horrors of a first-time visit to Italy? You think travelers need to "practice" in other venues before making that big stretch to dealing with all the problems they'll encounter in Italy?

Besides being just ill-informed, your statement is utterly lacking in logic.

And about the water, total nonsense.

P.S. Stay away from Africa and Asia. You can't begin to imagine....

BillT

I knew that my post would bring the a bevy of distain down on me- thats fine - for the original poster just be aware of these issues and if you decide to travel to Italy my best wishes for an uneventful journey.

Aramis

Bill, Bill, Bill.

I count several bevys.

spcfa

Not sure why so much defensiveness about Italy, as if saying it was a difficult travel destination was a personal insult. My favorite destination was New Zealand, but if someone else didn't like it I wouldn't be offended or rush to its defense. I thought Italy was a difficult place to travel, and I am not and was not then an inexperienced independent traveler. Just my opinion, my empirical experience, shared here.

What's the big deal?

Aramis

You won't find a bigger defender of an individuals right to like what they like on this site than me. That is not the point.

If you are not a little offended by someone suggesting that a certain destination is not as worthy, or at least is more "difficult" to travel in, compared to another because of pickpockets, gypsies and dirty hotel rooms, so be it.

I'm not defending Italy, I just think that trying to dissuade visitors from traveling to the country because of an opinion that it simply can't match the morality, ethnic/cultural homogeneity and cleanliness standards of Austria or Switzerland is creepy.

Bill admits that he knew what was coming when he posted. That sounds a lot like someone covering a negative statements about a group of identifiable individuals with the phrase;

"Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends are (insert identifiable group here), but......"

uhoh_busted

MY first trip, I did 8 nights (9 days) in Paris to celebrate my 40th bd with my husband. It was sublime. Even though we were on a budget (neither of our 2 "kids" had finished college yet) and we stayed in a 2 star hotel in the 11th (which wasn't as trendy as it is now) we LOVED every minute of that trip. Our next trip was a week in London and a week in Paris. Again, totally delightful. Then we did three weeks in Italy. Heaven. You get my drift? Take the time to get to know one or two fabulous cities -- that will let you do a daytrip out of town in each to see "something else" and totally give you the opportunity to experience a culture shift that is new to you.

We continue to enjoy trips all over the globe, and are quick to take an overnight in, say London, if there is a connection to another part of the world, so we can have a quick hit of London. But on your "initial" trip to Europe, I strongly suggest not to rush yourselves, and with a two-week trip, I'd pick two essential cities and concentrate on those.

BillT

Geeze!!!!!! Look if the original poster wants to do Italy - thats fine- the point being made here is that there are other destinations in Europe that present less issues to deal with and for first timers - newbees- I should think that they would want to minimize such issues. Its a fact - like it or not- that Italy presents some issues that you just don't have in some of the other venues. Of course one can go to Italy and have a wonderful trip and not experience any of these issues- many on this forum can attest to that - however that does not mean that theses issues don't exist or that no one has experienced these things.
As a previous poster has pointed out - Italy can be a bit difficult to travel for a number of reasons.
So if there is no particuar desire to include Italy my suggestion is to stay with those venues that do not - on the whole - present such issues and are easier to travel.
You want an analogy- here goes- Asia travel for a newbee- I would advise say Singapore as opposed to India for a first timer to Asia- ok now let the ranting begin on that one!

pauljagman

I haven't read many of these posts so I'm not sure where this thread is going but if I were to answer the OP's question about going to Europe for only once, I would fly into Paris. Spend 4 or 5 days there. While there go see the Eiffel tower, walk the Avenue des Champs-Elysees sit at a cafe and have a cappucino, visit the Rue Cler area, take a Metro to the Montmarte, vist the Musee d'Orsay and then take a train to Munich for 4 or 5 days.

In Muncih I would walk the Marianplatz, have a beer in the English Gardens, rent a car and visit Neuschwanstein Castle, go to Garmish and take a gondola to the top of the Zugspitze. Take a ride thru the Black Forest to the Rhine and take a river cruise up to Koblenz. A stop in Rudesheim or ST Goar for a little wine would be nice.

Well, maybe that would take more than 4 or 5 days but that would be my highlights of Europe. Sorry, I missed Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, the Med, Austria, Switzerland, Great Britain etc, etc. If I had 3 months I would include some of those magnificent places.

In my experience the first time I saw the Alps I was blown away. They were awesome and made me feel like I saw something significant. I hope you make it and experience it.

maryanne1

Paris or Rome. Two of the greatest cities in the world.

BillT

Paris and Munich are two of my favorite cities. I would advise flying into Munich and then move on to Paris and fly home from Paris (it will be a shorter trip home assuming home is in the US).
Now you want to be careful about when to go. We like going in late May or September with September as our preference. Weather is great, kids are back in school, etc. But beware that Octoberfest in Munich starts I believe in late September and that usually means high prices and big really big crowds.
Both cities offer many things to do and see, great transportation, clean safe hotels, etc. Really no issues with these 2 cities.

kleeblatt

Well, I have to admit the beer is better in Munich than in Rome.

ilovevienna1

VIENNA (the capital of half of europe at one time...full of culture, music, palaces, baroque churches, gardens, best cakes in the world, and beautiful architecture everwhere! It rivals Paris!)

then

PARIS (the capital of the great French Empire...full of art, baroque gardens, amazing cuisine, very international, palaces, beautiful, fashion center, and amazing music)


then

ROME (the capital of Christendom, full of baroque churches, amazing food and gelato, beautiful piazzas, so many palaces, nice people (generally), ancient sites, too many fountains, bridges, statues, everything that makes Europe unique)


or vice versa