If Greece exits
Jun 29th, 2015, 10:50 AM
#21
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Thanks for the info, clausar! We have visited Greece many times now. Except for the few open/close hour surprises (again, nothing that would ruin a trip!), have never encountered any logistical difficulty regardless of what was going on politically/economically.
I do hope the Tourist Ministry is able to get this info out to the world - that tourists will face minimal/no inconvenience in visiting.
I do hope the Tourist Ministry is able to get this info out to the world - that tourists will face minimal/no inconvenience in visiting.
Jun 29th, 2015, 12:44 PM
#23
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clausar - Thank you for your "on the scene" reporting. Here in the US we are hearing that many tourists are having difficulties finding ATMs that contain Euros to dispense. There was just an interview on TV of a student from California who is out of money. Do you have any helpful hints about where visitors might find ATMs that haven't been emptied?
Jun 29th, 2015, 01:41 PM
#24
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MaineGG
After noon today there were no problems, I am not sure when the interview you saw took place. it could be from Sunday...
I am not aware of any problems at the moment, and I am watching all major TV channels as I write.
After noon today there were no problems, I am not sure when the interview you saw took place. it could be from Sunday...
I am not aware of any problems at the moment, and I am watching all major TV channels as I write.
Jun 29th, 2015, 01:46 PM
#25
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Thanks, clausar. This is a difficult time for Greece and I am hoping for the best outcome for all. My late mother loved Greece and spent many months of her last years in residence on Crete. We had special visits with her there.
Jun 29th, 2015, 02:04 PM
#26
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Clausar,
You forgot to Include Italy! It has much more debt that Greece had at the worst moments of its indebtedness, and worse corruption problems, much more widespread and endemic. But the real problem for Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece is that they can't fight the corruption of Germany, the UK, the Netherlands and France, which have scandals and crooks aplenty -- but let's all guess just what makes them so trustworthy and upstanding to naive readers of the media? Think hard. Surely it will dawn on some people here!
For those interested, Ingo's "information" or analysis (propaganda) is false.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/com...iglitz-2015-06
You forgot to Include Italy! It has much more debt that Greece had at the worst moments of its indebtedness, and worse corruption problems, much more widespread and endemic. But the real problem for Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece is that they can't fight the corruption of Germany, the UK, the Netherlands and France, which have scandals and crooks aplenty -- but let's all guess just what makes them so trustworthy and upstanding to naive readers of the media? Think hard. Surely it will dawn on some people here!
For those interested, Ingo's "information" or analysis (propaganda) is false.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/com...iglitz-2015-06
Jun 29th, 2015, 02:41 PM
#27
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Sandra
Greeks are following Stiglitz very carefully over the last years, and I always pay attention to his opinion.
Once again he is describing with precision what happened..
Reading the opinions of other Fodorites ( or in other fora) on this subject, I always notice how little information the average person in other countries have from the other side.
Germany was involved in all the major corruption scandals that took place in Greece the last 30 years. with the Siemens scandal being one of the biggest one.
One of the major protagonists of this scandal, the General Manager of Siemens Greece Mr Christoforakos managed in the last moment to escape to Germany, and as he had also the German nationality, Germany is protecting him, by not handing him over to the Greek justice.
http://apokoronasnews.gr/?p=555
Greeks are following Stiglitz very carefully over the last years, and I always pay attention to his opinion.
Once again he is describing with precision what happened..
Reading the opinions of other Fodorites ( or in other fora) on this subject, I always notice how little information the average person in other countries have from the other side.
Germany was involved in all the major corruption scandals that took place in Greece the last 30 years. with the Siemens scandal being one of the biggest one.
One of the major protagonists of this scandal, the General Manager of Siemens Greece Mr Christoforakos managed in the last moment to escape to Germany, and as he had also the German nationality, Germany is protecting him, by not handing him over to the Greek justice.
http://apokoronasnews.gr/?p=555
Jun 29th, 2015, 10:04 PM
#28
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LOL, of course Germany is to blame for anything and everything. And Keynesianism raising its head ...
The former communist countries in eastern/central Europe that are now part of the EU underwent huge economy structure reforms in the 1990s (including austerity programs) also. The consequences were at first similar to what Greece saw lately, but they are doing much better now.
It's funny how Greece insists on Democracy ruling, not the "Troika" or "Institutions". Fine. Greeks are free to decide whether they want the money of the other EU countries or not. Please don't forget that these are democratic countries, too. And the German parliament (elected democratically) decides on what they want to spend money.
The former communist countries in eastern/central Europe that are now part of the EU underwent huge economy structure reforms in the 1990s (including austerity programs) also. The consequences were at first similar to what Greece saw lately, but they are doing much better now.
It's funny how Greece insists on Democracy ruling, not the "Troika" or "Institutions". Fine. Greeks are free to decide whether they want the money of the other EU countries or not. Please don't forget that these are democratic countries, too. And the German parliament (elected democratically) decides on what they want to spend money.
Jun 29th, 2015, 10:40 PM
#29
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Hello suec1,
Is this a case study type of question or you plan to visit Greece soon? And when?
Currency does not change overnight, months will be needed to change it and anyway the euro will still be accepted as hard currency in case there is a Grexit. The referendum is not about Greece exiting the euro anyway. Of course the decision of the referendum and how politicians of all parts will interprent it, could lead to further developments. For what it worths, there is no legal base on which a country could be forced to leave the euro or even quit it herself.
For the time been, the only issues visitors might have is that some ATMs drain here and there, are refilled and drained again. No other issues. Demand for fuel was huge on some gas stations and so some hours are needed so they refill too.
Situation of course may change day by day. I would not expect any very crucial developments before the referendum. Afterwards,we have to wait and see. Of course no one holds a crystal ball but my estimate is that still there will not be major problems for visitors.
For what it worths, I share Sandralist's views but I avoid participating on this kind of threads on traveler forums, because during the years I found out that people tend to believe what they want to believe and will not change opinions on those issues. Conversations on the subject quickly become heated or judgemental or no ending without really coming into any conclusion for your averrage forum lurker. Whenever I post, I try to keep it strongly travel-related.
Is this a case study type of question or you plan to visit Greece soon? And when?
Currency does not change overnight, months will be needed to change it and anyway the euro will still be accepted as hard currency in case there is a Grexit. The referendum is not about Greece exiting the euro anyway. Of course the decision of the referendum and how politicians of all parts will interprent it, could lead to further developments. For what it worths, there is no legal base on which a country could be forced to leave the euro or even quit it herself.
For the time been, the only issues visitors might have is that some ATMs drain here and there, are refilled and drained again. No other issues. Demand for fuel was huge on some gas stations and so some hours are needed so they refill too.
Situation of course may change day by day. I would not expect any very crucial developments before the referendum. Afterwards,we have to wait and see. Of course no one holds a crystal ball but my estimate is that still there will not be major problems for visitors.
For what it worths, I share Sandralist's views but I avoid participating on this kind of threads on traveler forums, because during the years I found out that people tend to believe what they want to believe and will not change opinions on those issues. Conversations on the subject quickly become heated or judgemental or no ending without really coming into any conclusion for your averrage forum lurker. Whenever I post, I try to keep it strongly travel-related.
Jun 30th, 2015, 12:12 AM
#32
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Yes, well said, mariha2912! I refuse to get involved in an economics debate, and am only interested in helping travellers who wish to come to Greece. Some of the above posts are doing a disservice to people who only want answers to a simple question.
Jun 30th, 2015, 04:39 AM
#35
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Again, puzzled by the "German" response, nation building (and that's what a currency union must be by definition) is more than appreciating each other's cuisine and historical architecture and making summer vacations more convenient under one currency. It means making sacrifices, like tolerating a poorer region's love of capital punishment, and also transferring wealth from rich areas to poor areas. This is old (like century plus) news to Americans, and there can't be another way.
And comparing a country in a Mediterranean culture and economy to a country in a northern culture temporarily set back by a few decades of communist rule is not a valid comparison.
And comparing a country in a Mediterranean culture and economy to a country in a northern culture temporarily set back by a few decades of communist rule is not a valid comparison.
Jun 30th, 2015, 04:48 AM
#36
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My intention was to solicit guesstimates about travel ramifications - not to engage in economics 101 or invite posters to play the blame game. So thank you for those who stuck to topic - I was aware of the "meatier" post a bit ahead of mine.
Unfortunately Greece is not on my calendar for 2015 but I do hope to return there at some point. Here in the US we are seeing images of lines at ATM's, some mention of empty ATM's and also locals making runs on grocery stores. It makes you wonder if restaurant owners will have any problems maintaing their supplies. So for those lucky enough to be heading to Greece in the near future, there could be some concern generated by such images. Also if the citizens become increasingly distraught, it would seem strikes (air, ferries?) or even riots become possible. But yes, I know that no one here has a crystal ball but there is never a shortage of informed as well as just general ignorant know it all opinions.
I'll try to stick to queries like "what island should I visit besides Santorini" in the future
Unfortunately Greece is not on my calendar for 2015 but I do hope to return there at some point. Here in the US we are seeing images of lines at ATM's, some mention of empty ATM's and also locals making runs on grocery stores. It makes you wonder if restaurant owners will have any problems maintaing their supplies. So for those lucky enough to be heading to Greece in the near future, there could be some concern generated by such images. Also if the citizens become increasingly distraught, it would seem strikes (air, ferries?) or even riots become possible. But yes, I know that no one here has a crystal ball but there is never a shortage of informed as well as just general ignorant know it all opinions.
I'll try to stick to queries like "what island should I visit besides Santorini" in the future
Jun 30th, 2015, 06:01 AM
#38
for what it's worth, the UK government is advising citizens going to Greece to take with them all the money they may need in cash.
That may solve one problem, but potentially creates another i.e. how one safeguards possibly several €000 over a 2-3 week trip.
That may solve one problem, but potentially creates another i.e. how one safeguards possibly several €000 over a 2-3 week trip.
Jun 30th, 2015, 07:31 AM
#39
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My daughter is heading to Rhodes tomorrow, so I may have some first-hand information from her in a few days. I'm still planning a trip to Antiparos in September. I confidently feel there will be no problems for travellers, but of course will keep informed in the meantime.
All the sources I have seen so far confirm the advice give by mariha2912 and clausar.
All the sources I have seen so far confirm the advice give by mariha2912 and clausar.
Jun 30th, 2015, 07:37 AM
#40
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> And comparing a country in a Mediterranean culture and economy to a country in a northern culture temporarily set back by a few decades of communist rule is not a valid comparison.
The rules of economy and finances don't care about cultural differences. Neither does math science.
And that was my last post here. Let's talk in the lounge, if at all.
The rules of economy and finances don't care about cultural differences. Neither does math science.
And that was my last post here. Let's talk in the lounge, if at all.
