niccichan

It seems some of the more memorable stories from international trips come from experiences people have discovering something they didn't know but needed to know or would have been helpful to know. For instance, when we were in Florence for the first time we arrived, put our things down in the hotel room and went across the street for dinner. The restaurant appeared to be small and when we asked for a table without having a reservation they seated us but were very cold to us. As we enjoyed our meal and soaked up all that was going on around us we noticed that people who had reservations were greeted with open arms and taken back to "the garden." We enjoyed the food and decided to make a reservation for the following evening. Our dining experience the following night, with a reservation, was night and day to the previous night. They gave us a very warm greeting, took us back to a very large, festive back room serving complimentary wine and appetizer and were constantly checking on us and talking with us. Make a reservation, a very fun lesson to learn. So what fun stories do you have?

ellenem

I doubt that you received such treatment because you made a reservation. It was probably due to the fact that you were a return customer.

J62

Some of my most memorable meals were in restaurants where I simply walked in and asked if they had a free table.

Sure, if you want to guarantee yourself a seat then you should certainly reserve, but I've never noticed a difference in service.

cruiseluv

Quite frankly, I would have not returned to that restaurant, I don't care how good their food was.

cruiseluv

Forgot to ask: So what is the "lesson" here? That if we don't have a reservation it's normal for a restaurant in Italy to have bad service?

niccichan

Boy, the last thing I was expecting was to get slammed. I wasn't trying to make any point or teach any lesson. I was just trying to create a friendly forum to share funny stories/lessons learned based on being in a foreign country. So forget I ever asked and go bag on someone else.

StCirq

I'm sure you had the best of intentions. It's just that your own example of things you wished you known ahead of time was really odd, because it isn't at all an example of something people need to know, or that would be helpful to know. It was just one odd, unique experience from which no lesson can be drawn at all.

And I certainly wouldn't have gone back there, either.

DAX

I actually give you credit for going back to the restaurant. It's very big of you to give the restaurant a second chance.
We have been to a few restaurants in Italy where the server was distanced/cold until we ordered the good wines then the waiter became overly charming and fake. We didn't appreciate the "night & day" fake treatment motivated by economics. I'm not slamming you at all but you're absolutely a better customer than most.

Linda431

I think the point to be taken here is that restaurants in some countries like for you to make a reservation. France is the same way. Our friends who live there say that it's just considered good manners even if you call 5 minutes before you get there. People who don't call ahead are perceived to be lacking in good manners (rightly or wrongly)until their actions prove otherwise.

It's just like walking into a patisserie without saying "Bonjour Madame/Monsieur" before you ask for the croissant. We don't do it here, we might nod or smile or say "hi", but if we don't, we're not considered rude. In France you are.

I agree niccichan. What you said was meant to enlighten and some of the responses were pretty rude.

And before I get slammed, please go back and read the last half of the last sentence in my first paragraph.

rkkwan

I think you just need to tell us the name of the restaurants. Because the lesson to be learned is that for THIS PARTICULAR RESTAURANT, you need to have reservations.

Like others, I generally have no problem with service at most Italian trattorias and the occasional restaurant, all walking in.

Girlspytravel

I'm sorry Linda, I can't buy into your "all or nothing" assessment about Paris eateries at all. That's simply not true in Paris that if you don't greet the staff with a "bonjour" you're considered impossibly rude. It's also not true that you are considered rude if you walk up to a restaurant without a reservation.

I can tell you honestly that in over two decades of being in and out of Paris, of studying there, I've never once made a reservation for dinner. Sometimes when I went to a "hot" table, like last September, with my Parisian friend, who is an artist, we walked up to "Les Ombres" one night without a reservation, and we didn't get in. And you know what? No one thought we were rude, in fact, the maitre d' was quite apologetic, because he tried very hard to see if he could work us in, but no, it was not possible-they were fully booked, and we could see that they were. We came back for lunch, and we did not make a reservation, and we got a table with a wonderful view. That was PERFECTLY okay, on both sides.

I've never made a reservation in Paris, and I've gotten in to all the places I wanted to go-no, they weren't the 5 star foodie establishments-actually, I take that back-I DID make a reservation for lunch once, at the Jacquemart-Andre museum, and was very glad I did, but that was a birthday lunch-and I knew it would be very crowded, so I did it that one time.

One thing I can tell you about the French, when you DO make a reservation, you BETTER show up, or RSVP in advance that you cannot make it-THAT they go crazy about-you must show up on time for a reservation-and you must cancel well in advance, if possible. Which is all the more reason NOT to make a reservation, because you want to be free to go and do as you like, and not be tied down to a dinner reservation at a particular time, and have to change your plans accordingly.

And I've walked into countless patisserie and other shops, etc. in Paris and said nothing-until they said something to me-and that was by no means considered rude, nor did they consider me rude-this is a big world capital city, Linda, they move at a very rapid pace; accordingly, they're not going to get their nose out of joint over exchanging pleasantries that maybe in the countryside and in smaller cities and towns (just exactly like in the US) they would consider rude if you did not engage in.

DAX

One of our friends made the reservation in a star restaurant but got the day mixed up. When we showed up at the restaurant a day late, the waiter told us that they were anxiously waiting for our party of 12 the day before while he twisted and squeezed the white towel in his hand and grounded his teeth. He still managed to utter Je suis desolee apologetically as he threw us out!

charnees

I guess the thing is, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" or wherever you are. And in italy, people entering a shop say buon giorno (bwan gurno, sort-of) and so does the shop clerk. It is not an attempt on their part to force you to buy something, but good manners. So I would be less concerned about whether they treat you coldly but whether I was being polite.

Another thing -- the historic center of Florence is very small. People say it's a 20 mins. walk across it, and I think that's about right. And many streets are closed to cars. So a car is unnecessary.

And July and August are beastly hot, and in August you have half of Europe on vacation, too. So if you can avoid those months you are better off.

And if you want to sit down and be waited on in a cafe/bar (coffee shop) you pay more than if you stand at the bar. Some places it's 3 times as much!! And you can't get stuff at the bar and carry it to a table to avoid paying more.

If you want pizza and beer or wine for dinner, don't go to a ristorante. That's usually a white-tablecloth sort of place that won't have pizza at dinner. Go to a pizzeria or trattoria or cafe or something.

There's probably a lot more I could say if I thought long enough. But I'll probably stir up someone already with what I have written.

Charnee

Linda431

Girlspy, I didn't mean to get you in a state over this, and I didn't say it was all or nothing. I've also spent the past 20 years going back & forth to France and have many friends who live there. They wouldn't think of going to a restaurant without calling ahead and always remind us that we should call if we're going on our own.

Obviously, you comport yourself in a manner that indicates you know how to act in their country. And as such, you are treated well. Or at least in a manner that doesn't offend your particular sensibilities.(That's where that last half of the last sentence in the first paragraph of my last post comes in.;-)) The point I was trying to make was that there is a cultural difference in what is considered proper behavior in different countries.

In France, it is considered a sign of repect and good manners to "bonjour people no matter what your experience has been. In New York, simply not running someone down on the sidewalk passes for good manners. In Savannah or Hattisburg, you're expected to at least smile and nod.

I don't know how old you are and what type of restaurants you are frequenting. (This discussion is about white tablecloth restaurants, not cafes and the like.) The younger crowd I understand in every county do not like to make reservations. My own kids do not and it drives me crazy.

Obviously, the OP felt the warm greeting they received when they did make reservations warranted the inconvenience of a phone call ahead, and thought she had something useful to add to the discussion. Obviously, you felt differently. And that's OK too. Viva la difference.

Julie_Hurst

niccichan, thanks for your whimsical thread I'd like to play if you are still around.

I wish we had known how to use the Rome bus system before we arrived. We found it very confusing until we spent a few hours studying the route map & book & asking lots of questions. The bus stops are street names, but without the bus route map, one doesn't know "where" on the street! The buses in our town list the intersection, i.e., West 10th & East Broadway.

It was also funny, because we asked several bus questions of our apartment owners & they didn't know the answers either - they always drive!

Julie

Julie_Hurst

Oops, West 10th & North Broadway - obviously couldn't be east & west!

Julie

kybourbon

This thread is about white tablecloth restaurants? In France? I thought it was about things you wish you knew before arriving in Italy.

niccichan - I've never had a problem with treatment by just showing up and asking for a table in Italy. We have always been asked (when room) whether we would like a table outside or inside. Perhaps it was just this particular restaurant or waiter.

The thing I wish I had known was that I would be returning multiple times. I didn't know Italy was so addictive.

Oh, and break the corner of your phone card before you try to use it in the pay phone.

StCirq

I also disagree with Linda regarding making reservations in Paris, or anywhere in France. Over almost 30 years of traveling to France, owning a home there that I visit frequently, and having plenty of French friends and neighbors, I've only made reservations a handful of times. And those times were, e.g., when we were a sizable group; it was a "hot" restaurant (don't go to many of those); or it was a restaurant with limited seating and we were going on a busy night. Of course, most of the time I'm not heading for white-tablecloth restaurants.

The formalities of greeting people in France are certainly culturally different from those in the USA; making reservations at restaurants is not something I find to be any different in France from in the USA.

dandj

i wish i would have gotten off my lazy rear and learned more italian.

i wish i would have known how vespa's have ruined sorrento. no more of that insanity for me. the amalfi was less frightening.

ellenem

I didn't mean to belittle your experience. I'm just wondering what the "cold" treatment was. You saw others greeted warmly. While those diners may have had reservations, they may also have been well-known by the restaurant staff.

While another poster equated "cold" with bad service, I've read nothing that causes me to understand that it was indeed bad service. It may have been simply polite service, somewhat reserved because you were a stranger. Unlike the US, in Italy it is not part of the waitstaff's job description to become your friend. Repeated visits would establish the friendly connection. I have found this to be true on many occasions.

I have a number of friends who were born and live in Italy and and I have visited there many times. While we have reserved tables at times, my friends have never indicated to me that to do so would generate a warmer reception from the staff.

These friends are also the first to admit that beyond the restaurant industry, the idea of customer service is relatively new. Don't even think about attempting to return a purchase, even if you've just stepped out the door of the store and stepped right back in. This, too, is changing with Italy's inclusion in the EU. One Italian friend used to wait until she visited me in the US to make certain purchases because she knew the shopping experience would be less agonizing.